- This topic has 1,701 replies, 41 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Tim,
Lk 13
' 1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Jn 3
“36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Rev 14
10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,19:21) Hi Tim,
Lk 13
' 1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Jn 3
“36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Rev 14
10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Hi Nick,The word perish in this verse is the Greek word apollumi.
Those who teach annihilation and eternal punishment use these verses to show that when God destroys, the soul is irretrievable. This, however, is not true. Perish and destroy comes from the Greek word Apollumi =, to “lose.” The disciples were afraid that they would perish [apollumi] by drowning (Mk. 4:38). The sheep was lost [apollumi] by straying (Lk 15:4). We may destroy [apollumi] a weak saint by our knowledge (I Cor. 8:11). Never does the Greek word apollumi mean annihilation! Besides destruction is the prelude to SALVATION!
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. [apollumi]
We have all like sheep gone astray. To be “lost” is the same Greek word used for “perish” So if an apollumi [LOST] sheep can be SAVED, then certainly an apollumi [DESTROYED] soul can be saved also.
Believe God's Word, not man's doctrines.Tim
1. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD” (KING JAMES BIBLE: I John 4:14).
God the Father sent [commissioned] Jesus Christ to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD. I believe that Scripture totally. In order to be the “SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD” one must “SAVE THE WORLD.” Jesus Christ WILL SAVE THE WORLD. How much of the world? The “WHOLE” world:
You don't believe that Jesus WILL save the WHOLE world, do you? I don’t think so, or you would not promote the fabled torturing of most of humanity in some terrorists hellhole of eternal suffering in fire. Most of Christendom believes and teaches that Jesus Christ will UTTERLY FAIL at doing the one thing that His Father commissioned Him to do.
2. “For this is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour [of the WHOLE world, I John]; Who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” ( I Tim. 2:4).
Yes, God WILL have all men saved. You can’t change this word “will” into a weak unattainable, wishy- washy wish. Even when God “WISHES” for something, it will be done.
While you are reading Isa , what about this verse?
“….for when Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS” ( Isa. 26:9).
But you probably don't believe any of these three verses, do you?
There are thousands of Christians that seem to get a certain smug delight in the thought that the majority of the human race will be made to burn and suffer for eternity in hell because they were not smart enough to follow Christ.
It is a SICK AND DISGUSTING fable of paganism and is found NOWHERE in the Inspired pages of New Testament Greek Manuscripts.I can tell that you are truly a believer Nick. In this one doctrine may God open your eyes, and give you a spirit of wisdom and understanding,
I pray the same for me as well.
TimQuote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 14 2007,12:51) 1. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD” (KING JAMES BIBLE: I John 4:14).
God the Father sent [commissioned] Jesus Christ to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD. I believe that Scripture totally. In order to be the “SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD” one must “SAVE THE WORLD.” Jesus Christ WILL SAVE THE WORLD. How much of the world? The “WHOLE” world:
You don't believe that Jesus WILL save the WHOLE world, do you? I don’t think so, or you would not promote the fabled torturing of most of humanity in some terrorists hellhole of eternal suffering in fire. Most of Christendom believes and teaches that Jesus Christ will UTTERLY FAIL at doing the one thing that His Father commissioned Him to do.
2. “For this is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour [of the WHOLE world, I John]; Who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” ( I Tim. 2:4).
Yes, God WILL have all men saved. You can’t change this word “will” into a weak unattainable, wishy- washy wish. Even when God “WISHES” for something, it will be done.
While you are reading Isa , what about this verse?
“….for when Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS” ( Isa. 26:9).
But you probably don't believe any of these three verses, do you?
There are thousands of Christians that seem to get a certain smug delight in the thought that the majority of the human race will be made to burn and suffer for eternity in hell because they were not smart enough to follow Christ.
It is a SICK AND DISGUSTING fable of paganism and is found NOWHERE in the Inspired pages of New Testament Greek Manuscripts.I can tell that you are truly a believer Nick. In this one doctrine may God open your eyes, and give you a spirit of wisdom and understanding,
I pray the same for me as well.
Tim
Hi Tim, I believe in the savation of all mankind though Christ Jesus, as you do. When I first was enlightend to this, it was like the bright sunrise of a beautiful morning. Thanks be to God, for “All is of God”, also Eph.1:11 says… God is operating all in accord with the council of His will.God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Tim,
All is a crucible.
God is housecleaning.
He had a problem with rebellion in heaven.
So He created the visible universe and man yet darkness usurped power and ruled there too.
So He sent his son in the likeness of sinful flesh to overcome the darkness with light begin a restoration of all things under God.
The Son was victorious and that light shone and then embers started glowing all over earth and the prayers of men augmented the efforts of Michael and the loyal angels who expelled all evil to earth.
God rescued His sons and then the crucible of fire destroyed the earth and most of the inhabitants.
Satan was imprisoned and evil influence removed.
Christ returned and ruled with his brothers continuing the restoration.
Satan was released to enliven what evil remained on earth and He was thrown into the lake of fire and and all those remaining under his lordship were destroyed.
Then all were raised to be judged by the Son and his brothers according to whether they supported the work of God or satan.
Those found under satan join him in the lake of fire.
Only light remains.Quote (Kupchuk @ Mar. 14 2007,18:36) Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 14 2007,12:51) 1. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD” (KING JAMES BIBLE: I John 4:14).
God the Father sent [commissioned] Jesus Christ to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD. I believe that Scripture totally. In order to be the “SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD” one must “SAVE THE WORLD.” Jesus Christ WILL SAVE THE WORLD. How much of the world? The “WHOLE” world:
You don't believe that Jesus WILL save the WHOLE world, do you? I don’t think so, or you would not promote the fabled torturing of most of humanity in some terrorists hellhole of eternal suffering in fire. Most of Christendom believes and teaches that Jesus Christ will UTTERLY FAIL at doing the one thing that His Father commissioned Him to do.
2. “For this is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour [of the WHOLE world, I John]; Who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” ( I Tim. 2:4).
Yes, God WILL have all men saved. You can’t change this word “will” into a weak unattainable, wishy- washy wish. Even when God “WISHES” for something, it will be done.
While you are reading Isa , what about this verse?
“….for when Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS” ( Isa. 26:9).
But you probably don't believe any of these three verses, do you?
There are thousands of Christians that seem to get a certain smug delight in the thought that the majority of the human race will be made to burn and suffer for eternity in hell because they were not smart enough to follow Christ.
It is a SICK AND DISGUSTING fable of paganism and is found NOWHERE in the Inspired pages of New Testament Greek Manuscripts.I can tell that you are truly a believer Nick. In this one doctrine may God open your eyes, and give you a spirit of wisdom and understanding,
I pray the same for me as well.
Tim
Hi Tim, I believe in the savation of all mankind though Christ Jesus, as you do. When I first was enlightend to this, it was like the bright sunrise of a beautiful morning. Thanks be to God, for “All is of God”, also Eph.1:11 says… God is operating all in accord with the council of His will.God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Jerry,God has blessed you with knowledge that many do not have.
If you are unsure of something keep studying, praying and striveing to learn the truth. Once you have been lead to the truth, let no doctrine of man change your mind.
God will share his truth with everyone in His own time.
Tim
Hi Tim,
If universalism is truth then sin is the winner. Darkness defeats light. Rebellion is inevitable and indeed logical. No incentive for goodness means evil triumphs. Values are vanity. Love and giving defer to selfish taking and keeping.
Christ's death was unfortunate and useless. No need to seek despairingly for the strength of God to lift us from the mire we may as well wallow in it and live for self, not others.
The god of this world would rejoice.
I prefer the plan of God.Hi Nick,
Nothing that you just said is true, or even makes any sense, except for your last sentence.
In fact, the believers in hell and eternal torture are the ones that claim that Christ loses to satan.
If satan gets fully 90% of God's creation, and Jesus only saves 10%, Who is the winner?I feel sad for you Nick, that you do not understand the glorious benefit of salvation while we live, and that you wish for others to suffer
even after their physical death.And I am not saying that the chastisement of God after our physical death will be a pleasant thing. But He will use that time to burn all of the bad out of us. Refine us in fire, just like silver and gold. And it will ultimately be for good. There is no good to be found in punishment just for the sake of punishment.
God would not impose infinite punishment on the majority of his creation for a finite crime. And nowhere in scriptures does it say that he will.
That is mans foolish doctrine copied from the Egyptians.May God bless,
Tim
Hi Tim,
So all men are good in God's sight and though we all have some bad stuff the bad stuff will be removed so that we are all saved?
Sounds rather like a catholic idea-purgatory and all that. The world teaches that good men go to heaven and bad men go to hell, but all have some good in them and God is loving and merciful so Peter standing at the pearly gates will find a reason to let everyone in except perhaps for Hitler and Stalin and dunno about Saddam.The world does not understand anything about God and righteousness and judgement. Jesus did not even consider himself good in comparison with God.
Repent or you will all likewise perish. Those who do not hear and respond to Jesus remain under the wrath of God. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2007,18:41) The world does not understand anything about God and righteousness and judgement. Jesus did not even consider himself good in comparison with God.
Hi Nick,There is NONE that doeth good, that are accustomed to DO EVIL [that's EVERYONE before they are converted–by GOD]” (Jer. 13:23).
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2007,18:41) Hi Tim,
So all men are good in God's sight and though we all have some bad stuff the bad stuff will be removed so that we are all saved?
Sounds rather like a catholic idea-purgatory and all that. The world teaches that good men go to heaven and bad men go to hell, but all have some good in them and God is loving and merciful so Peter standing at the pearly gates will find a reason to let everyone in except perhaps for Hitler and Stalin and dunno about Saddam.The world does not understand anything about God and righteousness and judgement. Jesus did not even consider himself good in comparison with God.
Repent or you will all likewise perish. Those who do not hear and respond to Jesus remain under the wrath of God. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God.
Hi Nick,
You have missed a lot, and you have assumed a lot. Just how is it that one “believes” in the first place. Can a sinner decide all on his own to “believe” Jesus and thus be saved? Do you have a Scripture on that? No you don't. I have checked the Bible and there is no such Scripture. Now then, are there dozens and dozens of Scriptures that show it is ONLY by and through God that one even CAN believe, and come to Christ, and overcome, and be saved? Yes there are. I will give you just a couple, for if you will not believe a couple, neither will you believe the Scriptures if I were to show you a hundred.Can a person come to Christ on his own by his own powers and abilities? No, he can not. “NO MAN CAN come to me except the Father which has sent Me draw him [Gk: 'drag him']: and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:45).
This statement must be pretty important, AND TRUE, since Jesus repeated it for those who are so carnal and who will not believe the Word of God: “And He said, Therefore said I unto you, that NO MAN CAN come unto Me, except it were GIVEN UNTO HIM of My Father” (John 6:65).And so, if GOD can cause one person to have faith (Eph. 2: , and to do good works (Eph. 2:10) and to live godly lives by His Grace (Titus 2:11-12), He can and will do it with all humanity (I John 2:2; 4:14; I Tim. 2:4; 4:10; etc.,). And this is because of another verse among dozens and dozens which states this truth: “For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).
Think about what I have just shown you, Nick, because you will now be accountable for this Truth of God's Word should you decide that your personal opinion of the Scriptures is greater THAN the Scriptures themselves.
Tim
Hi Tim,
You say
“And so, if GOD can cause one person to have faith (Eph. 2: , and to do good works (Eph. 2:10) and to live godly lives by His Grace (Titus 2:11-12), He can and will do it with all humanity (I John 2:2; 4:14; I Tim. 2:4; 4:10; etc.,). And this is because of another verse among dozens and dozens which states this truth: “For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).Indeed all is of grace and that grace is available to all.
All men are given a measure of faith and none have any excuse because the nature and presence of God is shown in His creation[Rom 1] But all have sinned and fallen short of righteousness and man needs the personal forgiveness of God.[Rom 3]
That forgiveness is given in response to sincere repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus, but those who do not respond remain under the wrath of God[Jn 1]
Many are called but few are chosen.
Paul's letters are not written to the world but to those in Christ if you check the beginnings of those letters so any reference to God being in men is in reference to that group only.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2007,20:59) Hi Tim,
You say
“And so, if GOD can cause one person to have faith (Eph. 2: , and to do good works (Eph. 2:10) and to live godly lives by His Grace (Titus 2:11-12), He can and will do it with all humanity (I John 2:2; 4:14; I Tim. 2:4; 4:10; etc.,). And this is because of another verse among dozens and dozens which states this truth: “For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).Indeed all is of grace and that grace is available to all.
All men are given a measure of faith and none have any excuse because the nature and presence of God is shown in His creation[Rom 1] But all have sinned and fallen short of righteousness and man needs the personal forgiveness of God.[Rom 3]
That forgiveness is given in response to sincere repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus, but those who do not respond remain under the wrath of God[Jn 1]
Many are called but few are chosen.
Paul's letters are not written to the world but to those in Christ if you check the beginnings of those letters so any reference to God being in men is in reference to that group only.
NHYou say…
Quote so any reference to God being in men is in reference to that group only. Did you say “God being in Men”?
LOL
Your own words betray you NH.
BTW. I am with you on this Tim.
Nowhere can the doctrine of “Eternal Damnation” be found or even hinted to in the Old Testament. Thats 66 Books and it is not found!
All major doctrine can be found in the Old either by direct referrence or by type or shadow.
Besides ask you self, If God was gonna punish men in an eternal inferno of the most horrible pain and suffering imaginable for ever and ever, dont you think he would have let Adam and Eve know of this before they disobeyed or Moses or any of the Prophets?
Dont you think our Loving God would have warned us that this will be the punishment for sin?
So its not enough that God drowned the previous world for their sin but now he will ressurect them to Eternal punishment.
That is not the God that I serve.
The wages of sin is death, not eternal punisment in a blazing inferno!
JMHO
Hi W,
Not at all.
God is in heaven but..
God is at work in you to will and to do…as, and by His Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2007,21:54) Hi W,
Not at all.
God is in heaven but..
God is at work in you to will and to do…as, and by His Spirit.
NHThat is not what you said! But oh well.
Hi W,
God is not in all men.
God is in those who have submitted to His will and believed in the Son and acted on that belief.
They obey and abide in the teachings of God's Word.
They have the Father and the Son
As the Spirit.1Jn 4
” 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.'
1Jn 3
” 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
