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The illustration of unity is well expressed in the institution of Marraige. Before Eve was taken from Adam's side, they were literally one, yet Adam did not have unity with Eve until she was made seperate from him. So although they were quite lierally one flesh in the form of Adam prior to Eve, yet they were not united as one flesh, Adam did not have unity with Eve until she was taken from his side.
When on trial before Pontius Pilate, Jesus identified the basis for Christian unity. He said:
“For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” (John 18:37)
Therefore, acceptance of Jesus’ teachings along with the rest of God’s inspired Word, the Bible, has a powerful uniting influence on Christ’s true disciples.—1 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.Of course, Jesus’ disciples would have sincere questions or disagreements among themselves at times. What then? Jesus explained: “When that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming.” (John 16:12, 13) Thus, God’s holy spirit would enable Jesus’ true disciples to understand the truth as it was progressively revealed by God. Also, that spirit would produce fruitage, such as love, joy, and peace, which in turn would promote unity among them.—Acts 15:28; Galatians 5:22, 23.
Jesus left no room for dissension or factions among his disciples; nor did he authorize them to reinterpret divine truths to accommodate cultural or religious traditions of those whom they would meet. Rather, on his last night with them, he fervently prayed:
: “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.” (John 17:20, 21)
Genuine unity, then, in spirit and truth was to be a distinguishing mark of Christ’s disciples from the start down to our time. (John 4:23, 24)
I believe we will only achieve unity between us, as we achieve unity with the Father and Son. If this is true then what does that say about our relation to God when you look at our relations to each other?
Hi st,
No surprises there.
This is an mainly an outreach to the world.
The only true unity is unity in the Spirit.
Many here are not yet lovers of the Word in which the work of the Spirit is shown.
If they loved the Word and it's author they would be searching for the door that it shows.
Then if they had gone through the door they would be grasping for the Spirit.
Then when they had learned to listen to and be led by the Spirit we could have true unity.But we shine the light in the world and hope.
Brothers,
I believe the Holy Spirit also reveals the total unity that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit share.
First most are aware that Jesus created the heavens with his Father but where did he proceed from? Was it from the unity he shares with his Father?
Joh 8:42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. FOR FROM GOD I PROCEEDED AND CAME. For I came not of myself: but he sent me.
Joh 13:3 Knowing that the Father had given him ALL things into his hands and that he CAME FROM GOD AND GOETH TO GOD,
Jesus proceeds from the Father and then returns to the Father.
The Holy Spirit ALSO comes from the Father and is SENT BY THE SON.
Joh 15:26 But when the PARACLETE cometh, whom I WILL SEND you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.
Again scripture reveals the SON SENDS the Holy Spirit.
Joh 16:7 But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go. For if I go not, the PARACLETE will not come to you: but if I go, I WILL SEND him to you.
The Son does not send the Father, but sends the Holy Spirit.
Who else send the Holy Spirit?Joh 14:26 But the PARACLETE, THE HOLY GHOST, whom the FATHER WILL SEND in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
The Father ALSO sends the Holy Spirit, he does not send himself but he sends the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is FROM God just as Jesus is ALSO FROM God. The Father Son and Holy Spirit are OF the same God but have different personal attributes this is seen by the Son praying to the Father when he humbled himself to take flesh and it is seen by the Holy Spirit when he intercedes for us to the Father when he dwells in us.
The Son and the Holy Spirit have there own functions in the one Godship. FROM WHICH THEY BOTH COME.
Who can deny that both the Father and the Son send forth the Holy Spirit?
I believe that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are ALL OF ONE UNIT which is one Spirit, one Lord and one God.
The Father and Son and Holy Spirit have different diversities of operations but they are the same spirit. The same was with God in the beginning….The word was BOTH with God and WAS God. The Word is Not the Father but is ONE with the Father.
Sorry but this seems like a simple relation of truth. God’s word is Truth!The Holy Spirit
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of graces, but the SAME SPIRIT.The Son
1Co 12:5 And there are diversities of ministries. but the SAME LORD.The Father
1Co 12:6 And there are DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS, but THE SAME GOD, who worketh all in all.The unity of the Spirit.
1Co 12:11 BUT ALL THESE THINGS, ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT WORKETH, dividing to every one according as he will.To me this is a revelation!
So all these things the ONE and SAME SPIRIT worketh. PLEASE I am NOT saying that the Father is the Son but they are ONE.
I have never met a true Son of a Human Father that is also not a Human himself?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.
Joh 3:12 If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not: how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things?Jesus was not just a man born without sin like the first Adam. He is from God he is ALSO the creator the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: THE SECOND MAN is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.2Co 13:14 (13:13)
The GRACE of our LORD JESUS CHRIST
and the CHARITY of GOD
and the COMMUNICATION of THE HOLY GHOST BE WITH YOU ALL. AMEN.
The GRACE of our LORD JESUS CHRIST
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness we all have received: and GRACE FOR GRACE.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses: GRACE and truth CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.and the CHARITY of GOD
1Jo 4:9 By this hath the CHARITY OF GOD APPEARED TOWARDS US, because God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we may live by him.THE HOLY SPIRITS COMMUNICATION
Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, HE SHALL SPEAK. And the things that are to come, HE SHALL SHEW YOU.The Father and Son and Holy Spirit share a far SUPERIOR relationship to that of humans.
Who can separate them? Or more the question who would want to separate them and why?
I tremble even trying to comprehend how they could even be separated.
God Bless.
Hi SS,
The Spirit is the Spirit of God, the finger of God, so there has never been any separation between God and His Spirit.However the unity betwen the Father and the Son is not forever a unity of being.
If it was then the Father has never had a Son.
The Son had no glory of his own.
The Son would not have life in himself.
The Son would not have proceeded from God.
The Son could not be sent.
The Son would not tell us of His Father .
The Son would not ascribe all things to his Father.
The Son would not be spoken to by the Father.
The Son would never be spoken of as being with the Father.
The Son would not have a will of his own.
The Son would not have a spirit of his own.
The Son could not die.
The Son could not be obedient to the Father.
The Son could not be at the right hand of God.
Etc.What relevance is the word unity if those it describes are forever one in being anyway?
In whose Name did the Father sent the Spirit?Adding to your list Nick,
The son could not be the Heir of all things.
And we could not be co-heirs with the Son.Or the Father would also be an heir, which he is not.
Amen cubes,
The Son could not be priest to God.
The Son could not mediate with God.
The Son could not be our advocate the the Father.
The Son could not be the Lamb of God.
The Son could not be anointed with the Spirit of God.Quote However the unity betwen the Father and the Son is not forever a unity of being. If it was then the Father has never had a Son. Oh? And why is this? I see no reason why the Father and the Son could not have the same unity of being and yet still be called “the Son”. After all, “the Son” is just one way to describe Him, He is called by many names, and to focus on the Son, and then incorporate the human sense of a father son relationship into this title is eisiogesis and poor exegesis, it is a very unbalanced hermeneutic. One must take into account ALL the titles of Jesus, and based on all those titles, formulate a Christology and a Theology Proper. Once one takes into account the full counsel of God, then the Trinity emerges as the only way to reconcile the Scriptural witness.
Jesus is:Realizing that there are those who teach otherwise… well… I would say this:
No surprises there, we are warned that false prophets will arise and attempt to deceive.
And this forum largely is an outreach to the world of false doctrine in so far as it denies the Trinity.
The only true unity is unity in the Spirit, but one must never compromise with false doctrine in order to achieve unity.
Many here (those that deny the Trinity) are not yet lovers of the Word in which the work of the Spirit is shown.
If they loved the Word and it's Author they would be searching for the door that it shows regarding the true doctrine of the Trinity.
Then if they had gone through the door they would be grasping for the Spirit, though the Bible says He is not far from us (Acts 17:27).
Then when they had learned to listen to and be led by the Spirit, and realized that God is triune in nature and every other god is a man made idol, if they would see the error of their ways, we could have true unity and fellowship.As far as the “finger of God” goes, this is the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity, a “person” just like the Son and Father. Don't blaspheme by saying or thinking anything less of Him, as if He is a mere “force” or something. If He can be grieved and lied to, He must be a person in the same sense that the Father and Son are, you can't grieve or lie to a “force”, unless of course, you have adopted George Lucas' New Age vision of what God is like, ie panentheism, then I suppose you could lie to the “force”, since the force is everything and everything is the force, ergo the force is god and god is the force. You guys haven't gone that far off the deep end, have you? 😉
did ya miss me?
blessings,
KenHi e,
So “Son of God” is only a title for God?
Jesus is not and never was the true Son of God?
Does that not worry you that our salvation depends on the Son of God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2006,21:54) Hi e,
So “Son of God” is only a title for God?
Jesus is not and never was the true Son of God?
Does that not worry you that our salvation depends on the Son of God?
errrr? what? I said the title was the Son's, not God the Father…. and that the title “the Son” was only one of Jesus' titles…. and to focus on just the one title is unbalanced, just as God the Father is called many names, and these names all describe a certain aspect of God's nature, Jehovah-jirah, the provider, etc etc…. and one must not isolate just one title and formulate their doctrine of God based on just one name or attribute, so too, one must not formulate their Christology based only on the one title “Son of God”.here is what I was talking about:
ADAM: (1 Corinthians 15:45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
ADVOCATE: (1 John 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
ALMIGHTY: (Revelation 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
ALPHA AND OMEGA: (Revelation 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
AMEN: (Revelation 3:14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
APOSTLE OF OUR PROFESSION: (Hebrews 3:1) Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
ARM OF THE LORD: (Isaiah 51:9) Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
(Isaiah 53:1) Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH: (Hebrews 12:2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION: (Hebrews 5:9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
BEGINNING OF CREATION OF GOD: (Revelation 3:14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
BELOVED SON: (Matthew 12:18) Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.
BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTATE: (1 Timothy 6:15) Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
BRANCH: (Isaiah 4:2) In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
BREAD OF LIFE: (John 6:32) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
CAPTAIN OF SALVATION: (Hebrews 2:10) For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
CHIEF SHEPHERD: (1 Peter 5:4) And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
CHRIST OF GOD: (Luke 9:20) He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
CONSOLATION OF ISRAEL: (Luke 2:25) And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
CORNERSTONE: (Psalm 118:22) The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
COUNSELLOR: (Isaiah 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
CREATOR: (John 1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
DAYSPRING: (Luke 1:78) Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
DELIVERER: (Romans 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
DESIRE OF THE NATIONS: (Haggai 2:7) And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
DOOR: (John 10:7) Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
ELECT OF GOD: (Isaiah 42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
EVERLASTING FATHER: (Isaiah 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
FAITHFUL WITNESS: (Revelation 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
FIRST AND LAST: (Revelation 1:17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
FIRST BEGOTTEN: (Revelation 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
FORERUNNER: (Hebrews 6:20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
GLORY OF THE LORD: (Isaiah 40:5) And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
GOD: (Isaiah 40:3) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
GOD BLESSED: (Romans 9:5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
GOOD SHEPHERD: (John 10:11) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
GOVERNOR: (Matthew 2:6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
GREAT HIGH PRIEST: (Hebrews 4:14) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
HEAD OF THE CHURCH: (Ephesians 1:22) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
HEIR OF ALL THINGS: (Hebrews 1:2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
HOLY CHILD: (Acts 4:27) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with
the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,HOLY ONE: (Acts 3:14) But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
HOLY ONE OF GOD: (Mark 1:24) Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL: (Isaiah 41:14) Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
HORN OF SALVATION: (Luke 1:69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
I AM: (John 8:58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
IMAGE OF GOD: (2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
IMMANUEL: (Isaiah 7:14) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
JEHOVAH: (Isaiah 26:4) Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
JESUS: (Matthew 1:21) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
JESUS OF NAZARETH: (Matthew 21:11) And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
JUDGE OF ISRAEL: (Micah 5:1) Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.
THE JUST ONE: (Acts 7:52) Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
KING: (Zechariah 9:9) Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
KING OF THE AGES: (1 Timothy 1:17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
KING OF THE JEWS: (Matthew 2:2) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
KING OF KINGS: (1 Timothy 6:15) Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
KING OF SAINTS: (Revelation 15:3) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
LAWGIVER: (Isaiah 33:22) For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
LAMB: (Revelation 13:8) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
LAMB OF GOD: (John 1:29) The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
LEADER AND COMMANDER: (Isaiah 55:4) Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
THE LIFE: (John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
LIGHT OF THE WORLD: (John 8:12) Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH: (Revelation 5:5) And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
LORD OF ALL: (Acts 10:36) The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
LORD OF GLORY: (1 Corinthians 2:8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
LORD OF LORDS: (1 Timothy 6:15) Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
LORD OF OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS: (Jeremiah 23:6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
MAN OF SORROWS: (Isaiah 53:3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
MEDIATOR: (1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT: (Malachi 3:1) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
MESSIAH: (Daniel 9:25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
(John 1:41) He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
MIGHTY GOD: (Isaiah 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
MIGHTY ONE: (Isaiah 60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
MORNING STAR: (Revelation 22:16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
NAZARENE: (Matthew 2:23) And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON: (John 1:18) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
OUR PASSOVER: (1 Corinthians 5:7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
PRINCE OF LIFE: (Acts 3:15) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
PRINCE OF KINGS: (Revelation 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
PRINCE OF PEACE: (Isaiah 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
PROPHET: (Luke 24:19) And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
(Acts 3:22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
REDEEMER: (Job 19:25) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
RESURRECTION AND LIFE: (John 11:25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
ROCK: (1 Corinthians 10:4) And did all d
rink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.ROOT OF DAVID: (Revelation 22:16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
ROSE OF SHARON: (Song of Songs 2:1) I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys.
SAVIOR: (Luke 2:11) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
SEED OF WOMAN: (Genesis 3:15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
SHEPHERD AND BISHOP OF SOULS: (1 Peter 2:25) For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
SHILOH: (Genesis 49:10) The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
SON OF THE BLESSED: (Mark 14:61) But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
SON OF DAVID: (Matthew 1:1) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
SON OF GOD: (Matthew 2:15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
SON OF THE HIGHEST: (Luke 1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS: (Malachi 4:2) But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
TRUE LIGHT: (John 1:9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
TRUE VINE: (John 15:1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
TRUTH: (John 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
WITNESS: (Isaiah 55:4) Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
WORD: (John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
WORD OF GOD: (Revelation 19:13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.”
Keep all these things in mind as you formulate your Christology. and you will be taking into account the full counsel of God, and not buying into the man made system of Arius, or any of the other copycat Arians.
So Jesus is God of very God, and since my salvation is in God's hands, I have no worries whatsoever… why? are you personally worried? Is that why the subject is so close at hand in your mind? If so, please allow me to help you, consider the following:
“Whoever wills to be in a state of salvation, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic [1] faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled without doubt he will perish eternally.
Now the catholic faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty. So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and one Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.But it is necessary to eternal salvation that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The right faith therefore is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man. He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God, perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one however not by conversion of the Godhead in the flesh, but by taking of the Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man shall have believed faithfully and firmly he cannot be in a state of salvation.
1. apostolic/universal ”
really it is surprising to see you struggle with this so…. its like trying to reinvent the wheel or something… come on man… get with the program!! 😉 lol this whole thing was settled long long ago….
blessings
Hi e,
Putting titles aside we are talking about the nature of his being here;
But was he really the Son of God?
Did he have life in himself
Was God his real Father?Hi Nick,
You have a great love for Gods word and this is great.But sorry I have to disagree, we can all pick and choose scriptures that show Jesus the WORD of God becoming flesh and humbling himself to take every single sin away. These arguments are weak because they DON'T look at Jesus before he humbled.
Just one of many classic examples
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him A LITTLE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast subjected all things under his feet. For in that he hath subjected all things to him he left nothing not subject to him. But now we see not as yet all things subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But WE SEE JESUS, WHO WAS MADE A LITTLE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour: that, through the grace of God he might taste death for all.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, FOR WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, AND BY WHOM ARE ALL THINGS, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.We need to stop looking at Jesus as a man he is not for the dust PLEASE.
Look at him before he humbled himself.
Humble yourself not to my words but the word of God my friend.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.The Son has always been with his Father he is the same as his Father and he is also ONE with his Father. The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son and where the Holy Spirit is the Father and Son are also. There is only one God no one beside him no one like him.
The Father Son and Holy Spirit have total unity in the Spirit, lets see if Gods word reveals this.
Who Indwells Believers?
Is it not BOTH the Father and the Son?Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him AND WE WILL COME TO HIM and will make OUR abode with him.
WE and OUR its all very clear.
How does the Father and the Son indwell believers?
The Holy Spirit.
Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you ANOTHER PARACLETE, that HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER:
Joh 14:17 The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you orphans: I WILL COME TO YOU.1Co 3:16 Know you not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.Its God who dwells in us.
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God: as God saith: I will dwell in them and walk among them. And I will be their God: and they shall be my people.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but the spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if CHRIST BE IN YOU, the body indeed is dead, because of sin: but THE SPIRIT LIVETH, because of justification.Other examples of the Father Son and Holy Spirit
Rom 8:11 And if the SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD DWELL IN YOU; he that raised up Jesus Christ, from the dead shall quicken also your mortal bodies, because OF HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU.
1Co 2:12 Now, we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is OF God: that WE MAY KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE GIVEN US FROM GOD.
1Co 6:19 Or know you not that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have FROM God: and you are not your own?
1Co 3:16 Know you not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of HIS SON into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father.
1Jo 3:24 And he that KEEPETH HIS COMMANDMENTS ABIDETH IN HIM, and he in him. And in this we know that he abideth in us by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jo 4:13 In this we know that WE ABIDE IN HIM, and HE IN US: BECAUSE HE HATH GIVEN US OF HIS SPIRIT.
The Holy Spirit lives in us because the Father and Son have sent him. And because the Holy Spirit lives in us this means that the Father and Son abides in us. This is clear in Gods word so it is the truth.
The WORD of God is not just as a man the Second commandment of Love. He is from God and OF God. He is the Great I AM, the First and the Last, the Creator of the Heavens and NOT ONE THING WAS made without him.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.
Look at Jesus from where he came and not as the humble one and you will see the unity.
God Bless you.
Hey Epistemaniac,
Don't mind saying that it's good to “see” you again. I am sure we shall disagree soon enough but I am happy to see you back and yes, I have missed you. I have not yet read your posts so let me get to them and looking forward to the discussions.
Hi ss,
So who is the being who was WITH the Father. This fact is recorded at least three times in scripture. If you say it was Jesus, and I agree, in what way can a being be WITH another being and remain part of that being?Hi ss,
The Spirit is of God.
Scripture says it is the “finger of God'.
Of course the Spirit is one with God as God is spirit and as a finger is never cut off from the person.
When we separate from our spirits we die as James tells us, so God is never separate from his own Spirit.
That Spirit was poured into the Son thus can also be called the Spirit of Christ and also both the Father and Son can be said to come to us and dwell in us in that one Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2006,23:03) Hi ss,
So who is the being who was WITH the Father. This fact is recorded at least three times in scripture. If you say it was Jesus, and I agree, in what way can a being be WITH another being and remain part of that being?
Hi Nick,Could it be Like we have a Body Spirit and Soul?
1Th 5:21 But prove all things: hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves.
1Th 5:23 And may the God of peace himself sanctify you in all things: that YOUR WHOLE SPIRIT AND SOUL AND BODY may be preserved blameless in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2006,23:07) Hi ss,
The Spirit is of God.
Scripture says it is the “finger of God'.
Of course the Spirit is one with God as God is spirit and as a finger is never cut off from the person.
When we separate from our spirits we die as James tells us, so God is never separate from his own Spirit.
That Spirit was poured into the Son thus can also be called the Spirit of Christ and also both the Father and Son can be said to come to us and dwell in us in that one Spirit.
Hi Nick,Jesus is OF God and FROM God just as the Holy Spirit is also OF and FROM God.
It’s a great mystery how the WORD of God was made flesh.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.
Jesus was not in the flesh until this point, so in what form did he create the heavens and Earth in?
Was it not from the form of which he came before he took on flesh?
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD moved over the waters.
Gen 1:3 And GOD SAID: Be light made. And light was made.Does Jesus not have Unity here?
God Bless.
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