Understanding Revelation

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April 26, 2011 at 9:48 pm#244576

terraricca

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ April 27 2011,05:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 19 2009,15:03)

who is he

Greetings Peirre….. In rome we have a man who professes to be infalible in spiritual church matters and considers himself the Vicar(substitute)of Christ….The last time I checked the Risen Christ( Jesus ) overcame death and is very much alive… and will manefest himself at the prescribed time which I have a sense is very near…

Theod

i have answered that question,

what you say is true but this was all made in and around 325 ad.

and yes i agree the return of christ is near.

nice to talk to you again

Pierre

April 26, 2011 at 9:53 pm#244577

terraricca

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ April 27 2011,06:09)

Pierre….. The book of Revelation is replete with symbolism and metaphors….and God only knows how many professing scohlors there are who think they understand it….This is a book that by its very design is purposed to confuse and confound the wise and the learned…The interpretation of Revelation is spread throughout the scriptures,The book of Daniel is a glaring example,Gods order of things with respect to time is replete through scripture (eg. a day is as a year and so on)….The foundational event in time that is evident today is that man has finally reached a point where he can actually destroy the eternals creation and for that reason God will intervene in the affairs of men in a mighty way with much wrath and judgement….All the metphors you read in revelation regarding the poisening of oceans,the devestation of the forests,the enslaving of the faithfull and the darkening of the skys…these are all events that will be perpetrated by man and could lead to the total destruction of earth and God will not let that happen….just as he is not going to let an obscure tribe of brutal cannibals put a date on the destruction of his creation…

Theod

you are right but God likes us to wander in his word and look for understanding,

revelation also is a combination of Johns time ,time prior to him,and time to come (future)

so it as to be separate first in time ,

Pierre

May 3, 2011 at 10:16 am#245080

Tim Kraft

Participant

For all the masters of Revelation: Please tell me what Jesus did not acomplish when he came to earth 2k years ago or what does he still have to accomplish?

When Jesus said,…”it is finished”…. what part of the plan of God was finished at that time and what part of the plan of God do you say was not finished?

Is mankind saved now or only when Jesus returns another time?

If Jesus isn't here, now, accessable by all believers then why believe? What is there to believe for? What is faith necessary for?

How can Jesus be here spiritually, in all, through all, by all, and of all, yet he needs to return to earth where he already is?

Does Jesus/Father and Spirit dwell in you? Have they (ONE) made their abode(home)in you?

Are you the Temple, made without hands, made by God through Jesus, where God dwells?

Are you not the physical body of the Christ having received the spirit by faith in Jesus words from God?

Are you the church which is the body of Jesus/Christ, yes?

So if Jesus is the Kingdom of God or the ruling force of love that is in all, for all, and through all then Jesus is here, now, in bodily form, hopefully working the works of God.

If you believe Jesus is here on earth in bodily form or in an earthen body then it is double minded to say he will return someday. Double-minded persons can receive nothing from God.

Heaven has been joined in the earthen vessels of mankind. This is the work of God through Jesus words of truth. A divine marriage is avaliable to all who will believe and accept. The consumation of time is when we accept eternal, timless life in Christ.

It is our duty to work the works of God now. Jesus has finished his work and is seated(positioned)inside the human heart/mind as he accepts and believes the truth from God. This is how we build our spiritual house. Jesus is the foundation block, cornerstone, and capstone! The greatest joy is that Jesus is here now, fully, alive, well and living in our new house together.

Waiting time is over. The time is now. Salvation is now: saved from wrath, healed, made whole, cleansed, made worthy, made righteous, and given perfect union in peace with God!! There is nothing more God can give. All here, now avaliable. Any doctrine of something that must be done by Jesus in the future is a deceiving lie that wishes to live a little longer.

Revelation is the most distorted, misunderstood and misleading of all the books of the NT to me. I do know that it is an overview of the plan of God including all that led up to Jesus and all that Jesus did to the end result of the river of life coming from the throne of God. For me that would have to be spirt water flowing from the belly of believers, rivers of living water coming from the throne of God within. IMO, TK

May 3, 2011 at 2:12 pm#245213

Baker

Participant

Tim! If all would be finished, as you say it is, then we would not have so much sin and destruction in our society. Those that God has chosen, for them its finish. For the rest of the people Jesus will come again
Rev. 19 shows us how

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And when all is subject to Him then he will also be subject to God, so God may be all in all.

1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Then God Himself will come down from Heaven with the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

To that time I for one am looking forward to, NO MORE PAIN< NO MORE SORROW….Peace irene

May 4, 2011 at 10:10 am#245268

Tim Kraft

Participant

Irene: Please hear what the spirit says through the scriptures: The holy city, new Jerusalem is not a bunch of buildings coming out of the sky!! The new city of God is spirit words of life sent through Jesus. Jesus brought the spirit words of God, the new Jerusalem from heaven, prepaired as a bride for her husband(Jesus was the bridegroom, being united with the Holy Spirit words from God. The great voice of Jesus the lord said, behold, the tabernacle of God (dwelling place, temple,church) is with(in) men and he will dwell with them(now) and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them and be their God.

and God will wipe away all tears(of those previously not accepted) and there shall be no more death(evil, sin, sorrow, nor crying, there shall be no more pain, effort, trying to get to God no more works to be good enough, no more sacrifices, no more payments or temple tithes for each person is now the new Jerusalem or temple of God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit!!)

All scriptures are in reference mans relationship with God. They are not refering to life on earth. Always they are in reference to mans relationship with God. We have peace with God through Christ. No sorrow or sadness in our relationship. We are forgiven and cleansed! No more sin/death/destruction(is refering to separation from life/God). We are now ONE with God. There is no sin in God! If you are in God you have no sin!

God gave the earth and its fulness to Adam/Man at the beginning. Mankind has ruled the earth from the beginning.Man has believed in evil and has created evil, destruction, death, misery, stress and all other life destroying beliefs. When man believes a destructive thought and energizes it within it will soon manifest in the earth realm. Man creates like his Father. All the destruction on the earth or anything identified as evil has come through mankind. It is time to reverse our creation back to the love that was in the beginning.

If we, the body of Christ, continue to believe in destruction, death and evil, that is what will continue on earth. If we accept the cleansing made possible by Jesus through the words of God then, from our pureified love, we will transform the evil/death back to the good/love of God. First must come the belief and then the manifestation. If you believe that God is good and God is everywhere then there is good everywhere! If you believe the illusion of evil/lies/deceptions etc. you will help make those the god of this world. Anyone who says the devil is the god of this world is also a liar as is his father, the liar!

We need drastically to walk in the power of love from our father and tell all the truth which will burn away the unrighteousness and leave the righteousness of God in the man. The truth will burn away straw, hay, stubble and leave the wheat. The harvest is ready. The truth of love will separate the sheep and goats. The truth of ones perfection unto God by faith will wipe away tears of frustration from effort/works, trying to please God.

Instead of pronouncing fear and destruction, devastation, death, pain and suffering we need to follow Jesus and his truth. If we don't gather together and change the earth back to the love we have been shown we will destroy the planet. IMO, Blessings to you, TK

May 4, 2011 at 4:17 pm#245287

Baker

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 04 2011,21:10)

Tim, you are so blind to all that is going on just here in our City. Not to speak of Hollywood….. When Jesus came the first time, He did not destroy the wicked, did He!!!! When He came the first time, He died for us. They persecuted, they spit on Him etc. He did not have the wrath of God to smite the nations. One day He will….
You need to read on and see what the Spirit says about the New Jerusalem. The whole Chapter talks about that. Rev. 21
One day soon you will see this

Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And when it is all done, then Jesus will give the Kingdom back to God…
1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

Tim, You know what I see in you is what I see in a lot of people, they too want to close their eyes to all the filt that is going on. It is easier for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah then it is for those in the end times. That is saying a lot….

When I read Mal. I see that the people of God will be saved out of all the trouble that will come upon this earth. You and I can be with Jesus all day long, that is not going to change the prophecy for the end times. To close YOUR eyes to it, is to me dangerous. What we need to do is pray, pray, pray…..so God will change some….
Tim as far as the New Jerusalem is concerned it will be for the Saints, and all those who are Spirit Beings. God will dwell with men…. The whole Chapter talks about that…..The meek will inheritr the Earth.

Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Mat 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
.This my friend has not happened yet…..

Peace Irene

May 4, 2011 at 8:47 pm#245303

Tim Kraft

Participant

Irene: There is none so blind as he who says he see's!! TK

May 4, 2011 at 10:27 pm#245315

Baker

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 05 2011,07:47)

Irene: There is none so blind as he who says he see's!! TK

Wow, I agree….Irene

May 19, 2011 at 10:30 pm#246237

Tim Kraft

Participant

FOR ALL: THE END OF THE WORLD:

There are multitudes of great doctrines, pages and pages of thousands of scriptures written very ambiguously with vague interpretations describing horrific destruction, chaos, pain and suffering. The religious world has worked overtime to make a spiritually discerned book understandable at the literal level. When you read the New Testament you must be born again to a new way of thinking.

The Spirit(words) of God have come to earth through the words given by Jesus, the Christ(anointed one). Jesus taught his followers, if you want to see/understand the kingdom you must be born again or re-create the previous religious thinking in your mind about God. You must see, perceive and understand the words of God in your heart, metaphorically as a picture in the mind. Jesus spoke in parables.

Only the spirit of God can reveal to you the Truth in this form. All Truth from God is now to be contained within each individual human being and always was. All is within one. You are the Temple of God, Jesus is your light, Jesus is your true food, Jesus shows you the way to God, Jesus is your teacher, Jesus is the Truth. All truth of God given through Jesus, in the New Covenant, is intended to be received within the human

body. Religious thinking must be changed to spiritual from physical to accept the Truth. Spirit is words from God that manifest as Truth to you through understanding. In all knowledge of God seek understanding. So there are great divisions amongst people as to right or wrong understandings of Gods words. Jesus gave us the keys to the Kingdom. These are keys of understanding. One of the greatest foundational keys to unlock the New Testament Truth is timing. In the genealogies at the front of Matthew you will find groups of

fourteen generations separating major events of God’s plan that led up to the end. The end of the religious world and it’s beliefs about God. The end of the physical(brick & mortar) Temple worship. The end of the old covenant religious practices with sacrifices, ceremonial washings, rituals of all kinds, days, weeks, month etc., none of which are necessary for a relationship with God. The new way was at hand. This was also the end of time. When the eternal, timeless word of God came, that was the end of time. The end of the religious,

Jewish world order. All prophecy was up until the time of Jesus’ ministry and it taught the establishment of the Kingdom of God in a new temple made without hands. Each human body! This kingdom would grow within each person to whatever degree they wished to have a relationship with God! God came forth as spiritual words of life, given to Jesus to give to whosoever will accept and believe. This kingdom or ruling power of God through mankind would rise up and never end. (Luke 16:16–Matt 11:13–Mark 1:15–Luke 24:25–Luke17:21 )
Here it is, JESUS CAME AT THE END OF THE OLD COVENANT RELIGIOUS WORLD ORDER! . Jesus was the fulfillment of all the law and the prophets. (Luke 24:44) The promised Sabbath rest of Jesus had come. The final jubilee had arrived. The acceptable year of the Lord was at hand. Malachi said, I will send Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of “the great and dreadful day of the Lord”! Jesus interpreted John the Baptist as Elijah who was to come just BEFORE the great and dreadful day of the Lord. This day is great for believers and followers of Jesus but dreadful for those who continue in the old testament works to God.

Jesus came to end the former religious world order, with its physical, brick and mortar Temple building worship, and all religion (mans ideas about God) that went with it! The misguided religious ones were lost sheep that had gone astray and completely lost their connection with God. Sheep without a shepherd. Darkness covered the land. The light of Truth was nearly gone! They could not see which way to go to find God. No one knew the truth.

Then Jesus came with the Truth of God, verified by supernatural power work that had never been done before by any man on earth. The truth or light that came, though, would expose the error/sin of that religious order which would end the old covenant temple! Jesus brought an end of lies about God, forced on the people through deceptive religious practices! And, yes the Jewish hierarchy of the church, the leaders of the old religious world are the wicked spirits/doctrines in high places. Rulers of the darkness that had set

themselves up as gods, hated Jesus because the Truth/light was exposing the darkness and tearing down what they had built. They would have killed him themselves but couldn’t because it was against their Law to put a man to death so they insisted on the Government of the time to kill him. The Jewish leaders of that time, the highest religious men in the world insisted to have the Messiah,

the Son of God, killed! These were the same self-proclaimed chosen of God. God is no respecter of persons he never special chose anyone. Any and all human beings were chosen of God or connected to God by faith. EveryONE is a MASTERpiece!! We are all a piece of the master. God says he dwells within you, do you believe it? God says you have been made perfect, sinless, and blameless in his eyes, do you believe it?

God says I love you without condition (unconditionally), do you believe it? There never ever was a chosen, human, bloodline lineage by God. Connection to God by man was always by faith. The Blood of mankind is from one at the start. From Adams blood does our blood

flow. By faith, Abraham (a Hebrew) was declared righteous. Noah was righteous by believing God, as all mankind for all time has connected to God by faith, because God has always been in the mind/heart of man from the beginning. We have always been sons of God in truth, but we believed lies. We decided to believe lies about how bad and sinful and unworthy and unrighteous we are.

We let deception of the truth break us down into cowering, begging, crying, little religious mice. We have always been sons of God, yet if man wasn’t aware of his relationship with God within him, he could not share the Love, Power and privilege of who he is. God in Man together as ONE! If you don’t believe you are one with God, then you are two, separated, not united as one! Just believe, no works, deeds or payments to get in! What love God has shown and yet we have been duped.

Look around you at the other people you see. They are all misguided, uninformed sons of almighty God! They have been made perfect, clean, whole, sinless and righteous by the words of God given to Jesus for us to accept and believe. This is our birthright.

Liars, thieves, and wicked spirits in high religious denominations have gone to seminary school (nursery school) to learn what the blind men before them have learned in stead of finding out the truth themselves. Those blind men have been leading us blindly and now we are all in the pit together. Lets rise up out of the miry clay, set our feet on the rock of Jesus and bring heaven to earth in fullness. God bless all who read. TK

May 19, 2011 at 11:38 pm#246247

terraricca

Participant

Quote

RELIGIOUS WORLD ORDER! . Jesus was the fulfillment of all the law and the prophets. (Luke 24:44) The promised Sabbath rest of Jesus had come. The final jubilee had arrived. The acceptable year of the Lord was at hand. Malachi said, I will send Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of “the great and dreadful day of the Lord”! Jesus interpreted John the Baptist as Elijah who was to come just BEFORE the great and dreadful day of the Lord. This day is great for believers and followers of Jesus but dreadful for those who continue in the old testament works to God.

are you saying that what God has said prior to Christ as no value in any way ?

Pierre

May 21, 2011 at 2:56 pm#246452

Tim Kraft

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ May 20 2011,10:38)

Quote

are you saying that what God has said prior to Christ as no value in any way ?

Pierre

Pierre: The old testament has value in leading us to Christ, the New Covenant and the true way to God. The scriptures testify of the coming of Jesus. Also lessons from the old exposing the darkness and what is not of God.

If you are actually reading what I write all the old test. led us to Christ. Since the New Test. was effectuated the old is not needed.

If you know one Testament produced sin and death and darkness and is no longer effective why waste time in it?

Jesus came to bring back the light that was. Jesus brought the truth of God. Jesus came to show us the way to get to God. BY FAITH only!! You connect with God in your mind/heart. The gifts of the spirit of God are his words of truth which cleanse you, forgive you, make you whole, save you, heal you, make you righteous and make you a perfect son of God. ALL BY FAITH!! IMO, TK

May 21, 2011 at 5:03 pm#246464

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 22 2011,08:56)

Quote (terraricca @ May 20 2011,10:38)

Quote

are you saying that what God has said prior to Christ as no value in any way ?

Pierre

If you are actually reading what I write all the old test. led us to Christ. Since the New Test. was effectuated the old is not needed.

If you know one Testament produced sin and death and darkness and is no longer effective why waste time in it?

could you bring forth one item of new knowledge in the new testament that is not mention in the old;excluding the bible predictions of event.

Pierre

May 22, 2011 at 11:45 am#246526

Tim Kraft

Participant

Pierre: The greatest spiritual change in the history of planet earth came with the change from the old testament, Jewish, religious order which entailed an attempt to serve God by performance/works/deeds etc., which in the end produced liars, thieves, wicked doctrines/spirits in high places of the “so called church” all of whom were in sin/darkness. That is the reason Jesus came. He came to correct the sick, not the well. He came to save the lost, not those who found the way to God. Jesus came to save mankind from the error of his beliefs. The religious world was dark, from wrong thinking/sin, and evil degrading doctrines. Jesus came to bring the truth, the way to God, a life more abundant, the light of God to mankind to “save/heal” them from their “sin/error”. Mankind was lost from the truth

of God. They had established a false, ritualistic, demanding, degrading religion that degraded mankind as sinners, unworthy, unrighteous, unclean humans that must work and strive, pay money, offer sacrifices to please God. The old religion was was sin. Sin is thinking incorrectly that there is sin. They understood sin to be separation from God. You cannot be separated from God, he is everywhere.

Jesus effectuated the New Testament which superseded the old and brought in the true way to walk with God. It would be the new sabbath day, the day of rest from works. It is the day of the lord, the light of truth from Jesus. The spiritual kingdom of God(his words) was at hand or within reach. His mission was to enlighten all who would accept him as the truth about God. He gave us the kingdom/words of God to rule Gods love in this world. If we accept, believe, understand and administer his forgiving, cleansing, worthy, righteous, sinfree, words to this world and they believe, we change the world to love.

The two covenants are in total opposition to one another. The old one by works/deeds of the law or performance for perfection. The new effectual covenant from God through Jesus is completely fulfilled by faith or accepting and believeing that God has done the works for us and given us the free gift, if we can believe. Can you believe? God said you are clean. Will you deny God? God has made us perfect unto him. Shall we deny Gods gift and attempt to clean ourselves? If you do you are lost again. Man cannot do what God did. IMO, TK

May 22, 2011 at 4:03 pm#246552

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 23 2011,05:45)

Quote

The two covenants are in total opposition to one another. The old one by works/deeds of the law or performance for perfection

could you be more specific how they are in total opposition ?

the fact that men corrupt themselves does not make the law guilty of being bad.

the first commandment was to LOVE your God and you fellow men as the second .

did Jesus changed this ?
did his teachings to his apostles was different to those in the scriptures ?

or is it your interpretation that see it that way,for some personal reason you only know.?

there is to me only one single change ,between the new and old covenant

and that is;the old was with Israel the new is with any men who love God and prove it by his deeds and words of his lips

Nu 12:6 he said, “Listen to my words:
“When a prophet of the LORD is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.

Pierre

May 23, 2011 at 11:26 am#246644

Tim Kraft

Participant

Pierre: Please re-read my former post slowly and carefully and then this post. The old covenant had a brick and mortar building, made by man, that they called the Temple of God. The old temple was obliterated in approx. 70ad!

The New Covenant established by Jesus changed the temple and its location!! The New Covenant Temple is within mankind. Within the human body. This is the Temple, made without hands by God to be the dwelling/resting place of God.

In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit, words of God come to each person through Jesus, so each person can build their own spiritual/temple house with God.
The old test. attempted to honor God through works of the law, rituals of worship, man made feast days, fast days, tithing to support the physical structure and make wealthy all the priests, high priest, etc.!

The new test. worshipers worship God in truth/words of Jesus/spirit/ it is these worshipers that please God.

The old churches were physical buildings, the new church is your body or the body of Christ.
Jesus said in the new covenant I and the Father will come and make our “abode” (home, resting place) in you. So that where I am and the Father is, you are also. That in oneness we live together.

We don't have to have anybody teach us the new truth of God, for the Holy Spirit of God lives within and will teach us all things(words of God)!

The old cove. performed sacrifices as their means of purification. The New Test. spiritual way to God is BY FAITH that he has done the purification for us and given it to us as a gift. If you accept and believe, then you are purified. Also, cleansed, made holy, washed by the words of God, worthy, and made righteous. IN THE NEW COVENANT YOU ARE MADE A NEW MAN, IN TOTAL PERFECTION UNTO GOD BY FAITH ALONE. This is the day of rest from works(of the law). This is the sabbath rest in Christ Jesus. This is as the jubilee of old.

This is the DAY OF THE LORD. This is the Kingdom of Heaven brought into earthen bodies. This is the New Jerusalem that came down from Heaven with a shout/trump/voice of God through Jesus. The words of God came in Jesus and set up the new kingdom of God which will never end. IMO, TK

May 23, 2011 at 4:05 pm#246658

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 24 2011,05:26)

The new test. worshipers worship God in truth/words of Jesus/spirit/ it is these worshipers that please God.

We don't have to have anybody teach us the new truth of God, for the Holy Spirit of God lives within and will teach us all things(words of God)!

you confusing me ;on one side you talk about the old testament on the other side you talking about the old temple and the new covenant,

but i do not see what you see ,the words of God can not be undone,if it was truth before it will be truth after,

certain things may become irrelevant because it as been fulfilled,and a progress in understanding ,to go closer to God our creator ,but it will never change the rules God as given to Moses to give us all ,Love and truth can not change,

as Jesus said the 2 first commandments will never end.

Pierre

May 24, 2011 at 10:44 am#246733

Tim Kraft

Participant

Pierre; God promised after the flood that he would never again destroy the world. He reminds us of his promise each time we see a rainbow in the sky. Yet you and others tend to believe that in Johns revelation there is great destruction of life coming. Whether the destruction that is prophesied to come is physical or spiritual is the great question. Paul made it clear for me that we are not in a flesh and blood war in things pertaining to God! (there has always been physical wars on this planet). Pertaining to God and truth we are fighting a war in our mind/heart for truth from God. God is developed in our minds or not developed in the minds of non-believers. However much understood, enlightened truth from God we have within is the direct relationship we have with almighty God. The new testament says love covers the whole law. The physical law of adultry will not stop truth adultry(of the heart). Love will stop adultry. Love covers all the law and the prophets. Love is given from the heart of one that is loved. God loved us first. If we accept his total love then we will totally love. Love knows no evil. Love knows no death. Love knows no sin. Love is pure/clean/righteous/perfect. When you see yourself in that love then are you a fully perfected son of God/Love.

The understood words of truth from God are ALWAYS good news/Gospel to the hearor. Gods words are always created from his spirit which can only produce peace, love, joy, longsuffering, meekness, kindness, gentleness and love, its own fruit!! If the words you read in the revelation of Jesus are for the believer they are non-effective. For those who have not attempted to know God personally they will be condemned by their own condemnation, expecting to be destroyed. The old way of law is passed. The perfected new way which has always been the true way but we needed it to be shown to us, is LOVE! To destroy evil/death/sickness/pain/suffering et.al. we must first learn love. As we release our condemnation against others it will be replace with peace, joy and love. Love says, Its all ok! Everything! IMO, TK

May 24, 2011 at 6:11 pm#246746

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 25 2011,04:44)

it seems we do not read the same bible;
Ge 9:11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
Ge 9:12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come:
Ge 9:13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.
Ge 9:14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds,
Ge 9:15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

2Pe 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for.FIRE , being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
2Pe 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly live
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
2Pe 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
those verses answer your question ,and they do not line up with your views

Pierre

May 25, 2011 at 2:15 pm#246839

Tim Kraft

Participant

Pierre: You are aware that when you are quoting IIPerer you are quoting scriptures from old testament. There are two different time periods which are two different covenants, right? When quoting the old testament scriptures in some cases they are stories about human ventures over time that reveal God(the most high God of Jesus) in certain situations. The prophets are a different story. They were all prophesing of a new coming day(light) where man connects with God by faith/believing what he said through Jesus. By faith Abraham became the father of many nations that would eventually come to a promised land. The prophets of God continually prophesied over and over the great day of the lord that would come to wipe away every tear(unto God for union). Jesus is the resurrection(from sin and death) to new life in Christ. The scripture you are quoting in IIPeter3:4 is quoting the scriptures from Isaiah at about Isaiah 34:4—(these prophets all prophesied in spiritual picture form)….and all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled

together as a scroll: and lla their host shall fall down, as a leaf falleth from the vine and as a falling fig from the fig tree…. All these scriptures that you quote (or most of them) are followers quoting ot scriptures of the prophets. Read the prophets. Those scriptures are predicting the coming of Jesus. All the prophets prophesied of Jesus. The day of the lord is the coming of Jesus. Jesus said you search the scriptures and in them you think you have eternal life, but it IS ME THAT THEY TESTIFY OF!! Read the Prophets.

They were predicting the New Testament to come(in Jesus). The words of Jesus were to be “LIKE A FIRE BURNING AND DESTROYING” the evil doctrines and wrong thinking of the religious order of that day.

Isaiah32:1…Behold a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.v2…in a dry place,(no water,no word from God) in a weary land. V6…the vile(religious) person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, they practice hypocrisy, and to utter error against the Lord, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. These are the things that happened to the religious world before Jesus came. There was no true drink, no true food, their soul was empty for God.

HEAR THE TEACHINGS AND SITUATIONS BEFORE JESUS CAME. V15 ( UNTIL)….the spirit be poured upon us from ln high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest V17 then, judgment shall dwell in the wilderness(won't be found) and righteousness shall be peace(with God) and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever!! My people shall dwell in peace. In this day of the lord Jesus.

The scriptures you quote about fire, gloom and doom are from the ot prophets (look em up) explaining to the people they were talking to about about the day of the lord(that they knew was coming) but we know that it has come. The words of God, right now are burning away evil(doctrines). If you believe you are a sinner and you read the words of Jesus that say, I have made you clean by my words from God, if you believe him you just burned away that evil thought/doctrine. Then are you truly clean.

Now, if you read the prophets and realize that over and over time after time the same message of the coming of the Lord Jesus and the great and terrible day of the lord, you will see keys that help understanding. Terms that you are aware of in the New Testament. The “rock” cut out of the mountain without hands.(Jesus)

The rock that crushes the ten toes of Neb's dream, Daniel went on to say, in the time of those Kings(during the Roman Empire) I will set up a Kingdom that will never be destroyed. Jesus brought in the message of the new Kingdom of God within each human that receives.

If there is still confusion please let me know. In person is much easier to explane. IMO, TK

May 25, 2011 at 5:48 pm#246842

Istari

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 22 2011,01:56)

Quote (terraricca @ May 20 2011,10:38)

Quote

are you saying that what God has said prior to Christ as no value in any way ?

Pierre

If you are actually reading what I write all the old test. led us to Christ. Since the New Test. was effectuated the old is not needed.

If you know one Testament produced sin and death and darkness and is no longer effective why waste time in it?

TK,

A description of the the Spiritual Body…. Excellent!

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