Understanding Revelation

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2009,16:40)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 22 2009,10:37)

Hey Con: You copy well. With all knowledge be sure to get understanding. When you get some understanding we will discuss. Bless you, TK

Hi Tim,

You want people to read what you wrote, which I have been doing, have you taken the time to read what I wrote?

I would like very much for you to answer this one question; are you now or have you ever been affiliated with the Jehovah Witness Organization?

Ed J,
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hey, hey, don't slam them Jw's, I like a few of their things, just like I like a few Catholic teachings, etc. I may not agree with the majority of teachings but I don't discount them completly because of it.

Thats why we have places like this…

Love, love, love.

October 22, 2009 at 2:12 am#152712

terraricca

Participant

hi Tim
i have liked your comment I find it refreshing ,your are absolutly right in your statement ,I have wachted during the years ,Billy Grame ,Van Impe,the Churche of God now split up,and many others,I was born catholic but in my teens stoped affiliation with them.
start reading the bible and never stoped and more than ever I still do,35 years ago i left permenently all organise religion ,it took me 10 years to get rid of all there influance in my mine that they ad left in it,
when finaly i could read the bible clearly as it was printed and not adding or subtract word or meanings.
now i was ready to realy go forward in knowledge and understanding ,not being a parrot of someone els,the great exemple in the bible is the apostle Paul he was misguided and he was attending the best of the best school and teachers.
You most understand that the thruth as to be shared but some will never understand it no matter what

October 22, 2009 at 9:26 am#152798

Tim Kraft

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 22 2009,11:40)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 22 2009,10:37)

Hey Con: You copy well. With all knowledge be sure to get understanding. When you get some understanding we will discuss. Bless you, TK

Hi Tim,

You want people to read what you wrote, which I have been doing, have you taken the time to read what I wrote?

I would like very much for you to answer this one question; are you now or have you ever been affiliated with the Jehovah Witness Organization?

Ed J,
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed: Thank you I will go back and try to find your writings. I respect all interpretations, just not copy.
I have never been associated with Jehovahs Witness Organization. I was raised in the Nazarene Church, it took me the first 10 years to dig out the trash.For the last 20years I have been studying alone at home. No church affiliation or outside influence.
A short bio. from TK:
As far as I know my is an interpretation of the Bible that is totally unlike any other. Some might say, why should we consider you as an authority in this area? Do you have some special gift or calling from God? Have you had a visitation by an Angel or any certification supernaturally? Why would we choose to believe something so untraditional? Could a nobody from nowhere uncover Truth not found by countless others for thousands of years? Why should we believe this as Truth? The answers are as follows:
I never set out to write a book, I set out to find the God of Love that Jesus revealed. He wasn’t being revealed at the churches I attended. They said He loved me but might kill me. You never know what the Lord might do! As to my authorization, by world’s standards for the amount of time I have spent I would have higher than a Masters degree. I have no special gift that everyone else doesn’t have. I have never had a visitation from an Angel or any supernatural event that called me into service. In fact I found out that the gift of God which is Jesus has given everyone the gifts & callings of the Spirit. Everyone has the same oneness with God. I have nothing that you don’t have. Humans are all equal in Gods realm. These Truths came over a long period of time. One of my first revelations of Truth was in 1985 when I saw the great change in the old covenant religious order and time itself. Luke 16:16, “the law and the prophets ended at John the Baptist and since then the Kingdom of God within each person was preached.” The eternal word of God is the end of time. Spirit is timeless!
Now the last question, why should we believe this? It’s your choice not mine, once again life & good or death & bad are set before you. Your life is yours to live any way you choose to believe. Choose Love! TK

October 22, 2009 at 11:51 pm#152918

Participant

Hi terraricca:

You ask:

Quote

in 2 Thessalonians 2 talks abode' the man of lawlessness' that he as to be in place before the coming of the return of Christ,and in the position of proclaiming himself to be God (or acting as such)

who is he ?

He has not appeared yet, but when the temple in Jerusalem is re-built and the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah begin offering animal sacrifices look for his appearance when he stops them from offering animal sacrifices. From the time that he stops them from offering animal sacrifices until he sets himself up in the temple showing himself to be God will be 1290 days.

Quote

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 23, 2009 at 12:41 am#152927

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,11:51)

Hi terraricca:

You ask:

Quote

in 2 Thessalonians 2 talks abode' the man of lawlessness' that he as to be in place before the coming of the return of Christ,and in the position of proclaiming himself to be God (or acting as such)

who is he ?

Quote

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

The only once that are looking forward to a new temple are the Jews.
Why would any one else think we need a new temple?
did not Jesus replace the sacrifice with himself?
did he not do away with the law and change the priesthood, becoming the high priest himself?
You quoted Dan. 12:11, the abomination is the Catholic church's Mass-sacrifice during which they claim Christ dies again for your sins; the bible is clear on that, he did it “once” and he did it for all, Heb. 10:10, And, with that one sacrifice he forgave us all our sins, Col. 2:13.
So you see, no more sacrifices necessary, no need for a temple.
The 1290 days/years gives us the time it would be exposed, exposed only because this abomination is still being practiced today. It was the German monk Martin Luther who exposed this abomination in 1517, if you count backwards 1290 years you will have the time it was set up.
Your quote of Dan. 12:12 is a reference to the dead saints it infact gives us the time of their resurrection. The waiting was done in their graves, it began with the persecution of the saints by Antichrist 565 AD; the 1335 days are years.

Georg

October 23, 2009 at 1:11 am#152934

Participant

Quote (georg @ Oct. 23 2009,12:41)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,11:51)

Hi terraricca:

You ask:

Quote

in 2 Thessalonians 2 talks abode' the man of lawlessness' that he as to be in place before the coming of the return of Christ,and in the position of proclaiming himself to be God (or acting as such)

who is he ?

Quote

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

The only once that are looking forward to a new temple are the Jews.
Why would any one else think we need a new temple?
did not Jesus replace the sacrifice with himself?
did he not do away with the law and change the priesthood, becoming the high priest himself?
You quoted Dan. 12:11, the abomination is the Catholic church's Mass-sacrifice during which they claim Christ dies again for your sins; the bible is clear on that, he did it “once” and he did it for all, Heb. 10:10, And, with that one sacrifice he forgave us all our sins, Col. 2:13.
So you see, no more sacrifices necessary, no need for a temple.
The 1290 days/years gives us the time it would be exposed, exposed only because this abomination is still being practiced today. It was the German monk Martin Luther who exposed this abomination in 1517, if you count backwards 1290 years you will have the time it was set up.
Your quote of Dan. 12:12 is a reference to the dead saints it infect gives us the time of their resurrection. The waiting was done in their graves, it began with the persecution of the saints by Antichrist 565 AD; the 1335 days are years.

Georg

Hi Georg:

You are not reading what I posted, but you are simply reacting based on what you believe.

I did not say that I need a temple, and certainly, I know that there is no further sacrifice required for those who believe that Jesus is Lord, and I do.

But the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, will rebuild the temple and begin offering animal sacrifices again based on my understanding of the scriptures.

The abomination of desolation has not occurred yet, but will occur when the Anti-Christ sets himself up in the temple proclaiming that he is God. The scriptures state that everyone who is not written in the book of life will worship him.

When he sets himself up in the temple showing himself to be God, the scriptures state that there will be a time of trouble such as never has been in the world and never again shall be.

Quote

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 ¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Has the gospel of the kingdom been preached in all nations?

Has this time of trouble called the great tribulation happened?

Quote

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The following scriptures state that immediately following this time of trouble Jesus will come for the church. Has this happened yet?

Quote

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Also, Daniel 12:1 speaks of the great tribulation.

Quote

Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

And the scriptures below the person clothed in linen is asking how long it will be until this time of trouble.

Quote

Dan 12:6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, How long [shall it be to] the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

The Anti-Christ will be given the power to continue for 42 months.

Quote

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

Quote

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Quote

2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Quote

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Quote

2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 23, 2009 at 2:20 am#152948

Participant

Marty

The fact that you think that Antichrist is yet to appear, causes your misunderstanding.
There is no seven years of tribulation, there is no rapture.
The Antichrist-Pope, set himself up in the temple of God; What is the temple of God? 1 Cor. 3:16, 1 Peter 2:5. The saints make up the temple of God, and Antichrist set himself up as their god and anyone that would not worship him was killed; did he not make war with the saints Rev. 13:7?
does not practically the whole world worship the pope, even today v. 8?
do you know that history claims the pope-church killed over 50 million people?
did you know that the Vatican abolished torture in only 1843?
and don't you consider a false doctrine is blaspheme v. 5?

Yes, I believe the gospel is being preached into all the world, or at least attempted to be preached, the fact that not all governments will permit it to be preached wont hinder God to go ahead with his plan.

And yes, Mat. 24:21,22 has happen; it was a prophecy for the Jews, just as Luke 21:20,24, this prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70, everybody knows that; what people don't know is that the “great tribulation” happened during Hitler's time, he killed over 6 million Jews, and had the days not been shortened, Germany lost, Hitler would have killed every Jew, no flesh (Jew) would be alive today. That is exactly what you read in Jer. 30:7 and in Dan. 12:1; you have to admit, there can only be one worst time ever.
Mat. 24:29 is speaking of a time not far off, it is the time when Israel will be attacked again, but it will be the last time, because after this time, Christ will intervene and take over the reign.

Paul said “let no man deceive you” 2 Th. 2:3, it was a warning then and it applies for today as well.
Consider this, if 50 million people gave their live for a testimony of their faith, how many would you think denied Christ for fear of torture and death; could you stand seeing your wife or children being tortured? Jesus will deal with him too v. 8, he has been exposed/revealed (to some), but not yet destroyed. Verses 9 – 12 show you what an impact his teaching has had.

Georg

October 23, 2009 at 3:11 am#152954

Participant

Hi Georg:

You say:

Quote

Mat. 24:29 is speaking of a time not far off, it is the time when Israel will be attacked again, but it will be the last time, because after this time, Christ will intervene and take over the reign.

But the verse says:

Quote

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

If as you say this has not happened yet, then the tribulation to which this refers is not the trouble in the time of Hitler because the scripture states: “immediately after the tribulation of those days…”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 23, 2009 at 7:02 am#152975

terraricca

Participant

It is ritten that it is the angels who asemble all the elected one from the four corners of the earth not man,of cause the apostles had received special status to do wath they did,latter the apostasy came the work was now in the hands of the angels,they have acomplish good works during the century's,I am glad abode my heavenly brothers and thankful to God for having send them to help us ,us the lost sheeps of the four corners of the earth.

October 23, 2009 at 7:10 am#152977

terraricca

Participant

Hi
the ones who believes in the physical reconstruction of Gods temple in jerusalem should by all means read is bible more carefuly, because it will never happen,it is a dream in there mind put in by others ,not in the scriptures .

October 23, 2009 at 7:50 am#152991

Participant

In the new heavens and earth, God will be our temple.

October 23, 2009 at 8:49 am#153000

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,15:11)

Hi Georg:

You say:

Quote

Mat. 24:29 is speaking of a time not far off, it is the time when Israel will be attacked again, but it will be the last time, because after this time, Christ will intervene and take over the reign.

But the verse says:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

You know that the bible can not be read like any ordinary book, Isaiah tells us, precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little. What that means is, you don't find all the information put together.
Mat. 24:14 tells us that the gospel has to be preached in all the world first before the second coming of Christ, but is in no way related to the “three” tribulation periods of Israel; yes three, I will explain.
The abomination spoken of by Daniel (Mat. 24:15) is totally out of place and has nothing to do with the tribulations either.
Verses 16-20 speak of the first of the three tribulations, it is best understood when you read Luke's account, Luke 21:20-24.
Mat. 24:21,22 is the second and worst tribulation for the Israelites, second world war.
Immediately after the tribulation of “those days”, verse 29, is speaking of the third and final tribulation, yet to happen. It will also be the end of this world as we know it.

Georg

October 23, 2009 at 10:33 pm#153096

Participant

Quote (georg @ Oct. 23 2009,20:49)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,15:11)

Hi Georg:

You say:

Quote

Mat. 24:29 is speaking of a time not far off, it is the time when Israel will be attacked again, but it will be the last time, because after this time, Christ will intervene and take over the reign.

But the verse says:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

Georg

Hi Georg:

No, I don't agree. The tribulation of those days reading the scriptures in context refers back to the tribulation which begins when the Abomination of desolation is set up in the temple.

And yes, scripture must be line upon line precept upon precept.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 23, 2009 at 11:04 pm#153109

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2009,19:10)

Hi:

Maybe, but are you aware that there are Othodox Jews who are already making the furniture for the temple in anticipation of re-building it?

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 24, 2009 at 10:28 am#153259

Tim Kraft

Participant

This is the day of the Lord. There is neither Jew nor Gentile nor bond, nor free, nor male or female, (nor straight or gay)in Spirit! We are all ONE in Christ. That is, if you are in Christ and Christ is in you then all are ONE! A Jew is not a Jew that is one outward by the circumcision of the flesh. The only Jew is Gods eyes are those circumcised of the heart. Believers just as we are. The Gospel is for ALL who will accept it by faith. You are what you are in Gods Kingdom, by faith!!! Bless all, TK

October 24, 2009 at 10:36 am#153262

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 24 2009,03:28)

There are no homosexuals in Christ, only repentant ones.

October 24, 2009 at 11:53 am#153273

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 24 2009,10:33)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 23 2009,20:49)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,15:11)

Hi Georg:

You say:

Quote

Mat. 24:29 is speaking of a time not far off, it is the time when Israel will be attacked again, but it will be the last time, because after this time, Christ will intervene and take over the reign.

But the verse says:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

Georg

Hi Georg:

No, I don't agree. The tribulation of those days reading the scriptures in context refers back to the tribulation which begins when the Abomination of desolation is set up in the temple.

And yes, scripture must be line upon line precept upon precept.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 24, 2009 at 12:12 pm#153274