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Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2005,00:01) Hi Is,
Christology is knowing about Christ just as theology is knowing about God.They are useful, perhaps, for ignorant theologians and intellectuals.
Christians do not need to know too much about Christ or his Father as they know them personally.
If you are in the same trench as t8 then why not fire at the real enemy?
From dictionary.com:Quote Christology
n. pl. Chris·tol·o·gies
1. The theological study of the person and deeds of Jesus.
2. A doctrine or theory based on Jesus or Jesus's teachings.In short, christology is the study of Christ. If you have a problem with this word (or any of my 'phraseology') then first consider t8 has codified HIS 'christology' in HIS “Who is Jesus” treatise. It is an emphatic doctrinal statement of HIS beliefs on the person and nature of Jesus (which HE draws on in HIS posts). If we are to objectively debate objective truth on these, or any other, matters then we must stay within the parameters of logic and reason (hence the necessity for words like “denotative”). Otherwise we drift into the ethereal and subjective realms of relativism and existentialism. Do you understand this?
Hi Is,
As much as an engineer can understand an architect, or a lawyer a surgeon.But we are not experts here, only journeymen carpenters.
He he. Amen NH.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 02 2005,20:30) If we are to objectively debate objective truth on these, or any other, matters then we must stay within the parameters of logic and reason
I can tell you that I do value logic and it is important to me. But I choose to start with what God has revealed first and study the scriptures to understand that which my natural mind cannot fathom. So scripture and spiritual things are foolishness to my natural mind. But I thank God that I have his Spirit in me to guide me and give me a hunger for the things of God, especially truth.Logic can work well within what God has revealed. But logic on it's own could not fathom anything about God. All that we can fathom about God is revealed first by God. Look at all those crazy scientists who understand many wonders of the universe and yet do not attribute any of it to God.
The wisdom of man cannot fathom the wisdom of God. For that which comes from man comes from man's spirit and that which comes from God comes from his Spirit.
If we are to objectively debate truth, then the sure way is within scripture and of course we should be lead by God's Spirit. Scripture is inspired by God and creeds and philosophies are inspired by men. It is foolish to follow men, but it is wise to be lead by the Spirit of God. That is why scholars are often scorned in scripture.
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?They are said to be foolish when their wisdom is of the world.
It is also written that the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.So the natural mind cannot percieve the things of God. Guess where The Trinity Doctrine and other creeds came from? From the natural man of course. These were not inspired by God and that is why these creeds contradict scripture. It is a complete waste of time trying to marry creed and scripture. You will only end up with confusion and a pollution of the truth.
Who would be foolish enough to believe that creeds were inspired by God? Actually I have never heard anyone say that the creeds were inspired by God. But we know that scripture is. Would it not be wise to stay where it is safe?
Quote (t8 @ May 02 2005,11:58) Look at all those crazy scientists who understand many wonders of the universe and yet do not attribute any of it to God.
Yes, but while they operate within the parameters of logic, their conclusions are inherently illogical – wouldn't you agree?
Hi,
Some people in studying the subject of the Son of God are realising what an extraordinary being he is.If a blind man had never seen the moon before and did for the first time he would be staggered at it's beauty and nature. But the moon reflects the glory of the far greater Sun. Likewise the Son of God is a reflection of the far greater glory of his Father.
1 cor 15 40-41. Hebrews 1.3Quote (t8 @ May 02 2005,11:58) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 02 2005,20:30) If we are to objectively debate objective truth on these, or any other, matters then we must stay within the parameters of logic and reason
I can tell you that I do value logic and it is important to me. But I choose to start with what God has revealed first and study the scriptures to understand that which my natural mind cannot fathom. So scripture and spiritual things are foolishness to my natural mind. But I thank God that I have his Spirit in me to guide me and give me a hunger for the things of God, especially truth.Logic can work well within what God has revealed. But logic on it's own could not fathom anything about God. All that we can fathom about God is revealed first by God. Look at all those crazy scientists who understand many wonders of the universe and yet do not attribute any of it to God.
The wisdom of man cannot fathom the wisdom of God. For that which comes from man comes from man's spirit and that which comes from God comes from his Spirit.
If we are to objectively debate truth, then the sure way is within scripture and of course we should be lead by God's Spirit. Scripture is inspired by God and creeds and philosophies are inspired by men. It is foolish to follow men, but it is wise to be lead by the Spirit of God. That is why scholars are often scorned in scripture.
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?They are said to be foolish when their wisdom is of the world.
It is also written that the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.So the natural mind cannot percieve the things of God. Guess where The Trinity Doctrine and other creeds came from? From the natural man of course. These were not inspired by God and that is why these creeds contradict scripture. It is a complete waste of time trying to marry creed and scripture. You will only end up with confusion and a pollution of the truth.
Who would be foolish enough to believe that creeds were inspired by God? Actually I have never heard anyone say that the creeds were inspired by God. But we know that scripture is. Would it not be wise to stay where it is safe?
Hi t8
1Cor 1.22
” For indeed Jews ask for signs and greeks search for wisdom, but we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED, to Jews a stumbling block and to Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, CHRIST, the power of God, and the wisdom of God”
1Cor 2 1f
” WhenI came to you brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you thetestimony of God. For I determined to KNOW NOTHING AMONG YOU EXCEPT JESUS CHRIST, and him crucified”Men follow their minds into speculative quests that damage faith and the Body. Get back to simplicity is the name of the game and away from the seductions of human wisdom.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 03 2005,16:27) Quote (t8 @ May 02 2005,11:58) Look at all those crazy scientists who understand many wonders of the universe and yet do not attribute any of it to God.
Yes, but while they operate within the parameters of logic, their conclusions are inherently illogical – wouldn't you agree?
Their conclusions can be very logical in the context of the foundation that they are building on. But if the foundation is wrong, then even their logic is wrong.Same with the Trinity doctrine. Trinitarian based teaching seems logical if you accept the Trinitarian foundation. That is why many do not question false teachings today. Because they have accepted a false foundation, they tend not to question teachings based on top of that. And even though many would say that the Trinity doctrine itself is illogical, (1 is 3 and 3 is 1), they take comfort in the premise that God is so far beyond us that we cannot understand the Trinity. But of course God is not a Trinity. That is a pagan god.
I could make up an entire false teaching and then say that God is beyond our thinking, in order to avoid scrutiny of the false teaching. But the fact of the matter is, we have scripture that shows us if we are wrong or if we believe in truth. This is why scripture is there. It shows us the truth and shows us when we are wrong.
This is how I look at it.
- Evolution is the lie for those who do not believe in God existence.
- The Trinity doctrine is the lie for those who have a form of godliness.
Of course this is a generalisation as I am sure that there are people with genuine faith who also believe the Trinity. They may believe for cultural reasons or because they are young in the faith or whatever. Same could be said about Evolution. Some think that Evolution is true and that it is the way that God created life.
But a true teacher's teaching will agree with scripture. In fact a true teacher is really only repeating what is already in scripture. But a false teacher is easily discerned in that scripture will show his words to be false.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2005,17:42) Hi,
Some people in studying the subject of the Son of God are realising what an extraordinary being he is.If a blind man had never seen the moon before and did for the first time he would be staggered at it's beauty and nature. But the moon reflects the glory of the far greater Sun. Likewise the Son of God is a reflection of the far greater glory of his Father.
1 cor 15 40-41. Hebrews 1.3
Amen Nick.Hi,
God is God.
Jesus is the Son of God and of divine nature. When John 1 says the Word was “with God” and “was God” it is recognising this fact. It is not saying that he is the same as God. It is not saying he “is” that God he is with because he could not be “with” Him if it did. He is the Son of that God.
So God is still God.
God is still Whom we worship in Jesus with the help of God's Spirit.
Nothing has changed.Hi,
It is essential to accept that the Son was begotten from the Father. If you do not you will not be able to come to the Father through him.
He is not the Father or part of the Father but the Son of the Father. We have sons and they derive partly from us and are entirely separate though of similar nature. The Son of God is only different in that he derives solely from his Father in the beginning . Scripture says he is the image of the Father with divine nature of his own with life in himself.
What image is still part of the original object? What image is exactly the same as the original object? An image has less substance, less dimensions[two ,not three] and is in fact the reverse representation of the original.
Only when you recognise the Son can you understand how he suffered in complete submission as a servant for us to bring us back into relationship with his Father just as he enjoys relationship with his God and Father.8But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever, a sceptre of straightness is the sceptre of Your reign. 9“You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.d Because of this, Elohim, Your Elohim, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10And, “You, Master, did found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Rev 5: 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.
http://www.chafer.edu/journal/back_issues/v8n2_3.pdf
“Typically, Acts 20:28, which refers to the church of God
which He purchased with His own blood, is interpreted to mean
that His own blood is the blood of God. However, since neither
God the Father or the God the Holy Spirit possess a body, is this
true? Leviticus 17:11 states the life of the flesh is in the blood, but
4 Frederick W. Danker, ed., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and
Other Early Christian Literature, 3d ed. (Chicago: University of Chicago Press,
2000), 1006.
5 M. R. DeHaan, The Chemistry of the Blood (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1943),
34.
44 CTS Journal 8 (April–June 2002)
neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit are men nor inhabit a body of
flesh and blood. Those who believe in the literal red corpuscles of
blood to be divine interpret the antecedent, the [tou], to refer to
God [qeou]. However, it is better to translate the antecedent of
blood [&aimatos] as referring to Christ. In this context, Acts
20:28 is not referring to the “blood of God” as being divine since
every New Testament reference to blood that is identified with a
personality is referred to Christ. The passage is affirming that
Jesus is God who shed His own blood for the church of God [thn
ekklhsian tou qeou].6 The notion of divine blood is more akin
to mysticism than sound biblical doctrine.”Quote (Guest @ July 05 2005,23:59) 8But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever, a sceptre of straightness is the sceptre of Your reign. 9“You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.d Because of this, Elohim, Your Elohim, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10And, “You, Master, did found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hi FYI,
So who is the God of Jesus ?Jesus serves His Father. They are ONE! The Father exalts Christ and Christ exalts His Father!
A Son honors His Father.
That changes nothing. Yeah, it establishes it!
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