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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 07 2008,18:42) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2008,18:35) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 07 2008,18:29) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 06 2008,20:43) “Fundamentalism is the triumph of Paul over Christ.” -Paul Durant.
That's an interesting quote. I suppose it depends on how you define fundamentalism as to whether you agree with durants sentiment or not. As I see it fundamentalism in christianity is simply adhering to the fundamental tenets of the christian faith, and in that sense if you're not striving for fundamentalism as a christian, you ain't doing it right…..
The question here then is about who decided what the tenets are.Stuart
That's a good point. Fortunately a tenet is defined as a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially: one held in common by members of an organization, movement, or profession (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tenets). Although there will always be disputes over the veracity of one principle or another, christians have done a good job of codifying their theology, with the principles spelled out plainly and generally agreed upon.
So are the tenets the ones spelled out by the one after whom the religion is named?If it is all so clear-cut and worked out, why the fantastic and ongoing history of schism in the christian churches?
Why does the Trinity thread here now extend to 991 pages?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2008,19:10) So are the tenets the ones spelled out by the one after whom the religion is named? If it is all so clear-cut and worked out, why the fantastic and ongoing history of schism in the christian churches?
Why does the Trinity thread here now extend to 991 pages?
Stuart
Quote …Although there will always be disputes over the veracity of one principle or another, christians have done a good job of codifying their theology, with the principles spelled out plainly and generally agreed upon
People disagree about everything. There are still some around who dispute the Earth is a sphere…..Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 07 2008,19:26) What do you think Stuart, is bloodshedding wrong?
I believe in the principle of self-defence, but killing is wrong.
What about you?Stuart
Actually I think it would have been well put if you had said 'some people still dispute that the earth is flat'!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2008,19:34) Actually I think it would have been well put if you had said 'some people still dispute that the earth is flat'! Stuart
eeek, pulled up by the grammar police again…..
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2008,19:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 07 2008,19:26) What do you think Stuart, is bloodshedding wrong?
I believe in the principle of self-defence, but killing is wrong.
What about you?Stuart
I think murder is unequivocally wrong, but killing is sometimes justified, I think capital punishment for serious criminals is fine.On what grounds do you deem killing “wrong”?
Gotta go. Look forward to reading the basis for your moral judgements. I'm very curious to know what they are. It seems to me that you judge a God that you’re not even certain exists as “bad” because He does not conform to your own subjective interpretation of the “goodness”. But we all inherently judge ourselves by our “interpreted intentions” while we judge others with moral absolutes. It is a double standard.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 07 2008,19:46) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 07 2008,19:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 07 2008,19:26) What do you think Stuart, is bloodshedding wrong?
I believe in the principle of self-defence, but killing is wrong.
What about you?Stuart
I think murder is unequivocally wrong, but killing is sometimes justified, I think capital punishment for serious criminals is fine.On what grounds do you deem killing “wrong”?
But what of the commandment not to kill? Does the wholesale slaughter attributed to god in the OT justify judicial killing? Is the commandment nulified by the hypocritical way god has broken his own law? What credibility does a 'lawgiver' have if he himself does not obey the laws? We may imprison people for the safety of others, but should we judge when we have been told not to judge others? The deity that thus commands also breaks it when he himself judges others. Isn't judicial killing two examples in succession of breaking the orders of the celestial dictator who in any case can't follow his own principles?I don't believe in any of this (apart from condemning the primitive logic that often supports the use of the death penalty) but I am curious about how you square your beliefs to obey and to ignore at the same time.
Stuart
I agree with a lot of what you say here Stu except I believe in a G-d. Of course they view me as even less than you here because I “pick and choose” which passages are true. Plus I show them proof of Jesus not being who they want him to be so its a double whammy for me.
Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 08 2008,00:18) I agree with a lot of what you say here Stu except I believe in a G-d. Of course they view me as even less than you here because I “pick and choose” which passages are true. Plus I show them proof of Jesus not being who they want him to be so its a double whammy for me.
Yes but as I have said elsewhere, a fundamentalist christian doesn't give a damn about empirical and rational reality because they view reality as the fantasy world and their fantasy as reality. Evolution is pesky because it contradicts the literal fantasy story but it can just be put in the evil basket along with everything else not consistent with the literal reading of scripture.You represent the greater challenge because you successfully demonstrate that scripture does not consistently support the slavishly guarded fantasy world. Your impressive performance here has caused… what else but the standard christian reaction to any serious thread: a schism!
Removing the justifications for the fundamentalist fantasy is just as important for the security of the planet as averting global warming. I would support a Nobel peace prize for anyone who could achieve a similar effect in the Islamic world.
That is a belief system in serious need of an enlightenment.
The fewer people there are in the world who hold literal religious interpretations the safer we all are.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 08 2008,02:09) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 08 2008,00:18) I agree with a lot of what you say here Stu except I believe in a G-d. Of course they view me as even less than you here because I “pick and choose” which passages are true. Plus I show them proof of Jesus not being who they want him to be so its a double whammy for me.
Yes but as I have said elsewhere, a fundamentalist christian doesn't give a damn about empirical and rational reality because they view reality as the fantasy world and their fantasy as reality. Evolution is pesky because it contradicts the literal fantasy story but it can just be put in the evil basket along with everything else not consistent with the literal reading of scripture.You represent the greater challenge because you successfully demonstrate that scripture does not consistently support the slavishly guarded fantasy world. Your impressive performance here has caused… what else but the standard christian reaction to any serious thread: a schism!
Removing the justifications for the fundamentalist fantasy is just as important for the security of the planet as averting global warming. I would support a Nobel peace prize for anyone who could achieve a similar effect in the Islamic world.
That is a belief system in serious need of an enlightenment.
The fewer people there are in the world who hold literal religious interpretations the safer we all are.Stuart
OH! You are going to save the world by doing away with those who believe in a Creator! You mention global warming.Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Who is it but those who don't believe in a Creator who can do as they wish with NO punishment at ALL! Because of their greed they keep the oil flowing and the hell with the earth.
Not quite two thousand years ago it was written “destroy THOSE
who destroy the earth”. How were people back in John's time going to destroy the earth?Is you faith in your animal world so strong that you have no eyes to see. No! You have eyes that are blinded by the god of this world the world YOU are in and BELIEVE IN!
Hi Stu,
You admit the possibility that God may exist.
Do you also admit the bible may be the Word of God?
If God may exist would it not be wiser to show Him some respect?Or are the stage lights too attractive to change your tune?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,04:47) Hi Stu,
You admit the possibility that God may exist.
Do you also admit the bible may be the Word of God?
If God may exist would it not be wiser to show Him some respect?Or are the stage lights too attractive to change your tune?
You know my opinion on the absurdity of Pascal's Wager.If your god does exist and the bible is his word then with that damning evidence the genocide trial won't take long.
Stuart
Hi kenrch
Quote OH! You are going to save the world by doing away with those who believe in a Creator! You mention global warming.
If you read carefully, I make a distinction between the thread posed by environmental destruction and that of clashes of fundamentalism. But no, you are right, I should make it clear that with the threat of fundamentalism I support the process that Towshab uses, to demonstrate that the bible does not support many of the beliefs fundamentalist christians hold, and add that the real world does not support them either. They should then be left to make what intelligent conclusions they can, if they can. I certainly would never intend to ‘do away’ with anyone.Quote Who is it but those who don't believe in a Creator who can do as they wish with NO punishment at ALL! Because of their greed they keep the oil flowing and the hell with the earth.
There is one born-again that springs to mind in the detruction of the earth for the sake of oil… his middle initial is W. Did you vote for him? He does believe in a creator, of course.Quote Is you faith in your animal world so strong that you have no eyes to see. No! You have eyes that are blinded by the god of this world the world YOU are in and BELIEVE IN!
Is this business of the ‘animal world’ and the ‘god of the world’ part of the fundamentalist fantasy? If it is, you will have to explain it to me because it communicates nothing.Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,09:36) Hi Stu,
The Son of God was tried and killed.
God Himself owes no man any favour.
I don't think any murderous megalomaniacal dictator has ever conceded that anything is owed. This one kidded with Abraham about killing his son before then turning his back on the judicial execution of his own ('foresaking' him). So the fantasy goes. There is a lot of death and brinkmanship involved in this cult, isn't there.Stuart
Hi Stu,
So you do believe in God and the bible record of Abraham then?
So why not act on this belief?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,09:49) Hi Stu,
So you do believe in God and the bible record of Abraham then?
So why not act on this belief?
No, I am only reflecting the fantasy world back for you to see. The danger is not from a non-existent deity but from those who slavishly claim to understand it and follow it to the expense of other human beings.Stuart
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