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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,18:32) Hi Tow,
Was the miracle of Elisha raising the dead
written out of evil men's hearts?
No but killing people including children was.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 25 2007,11:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,18:32) Hi Tow,
Was the miracle of Elisha raising the dead
written out of evil men's hearts?
No but killing people including children was.
TowYou say…
Quote
Yes, yours because Jews and those who do not believe that G-d has brought the new covenant yet will not call your biased translation of the Hebrew scripture 'ours'. We would much rather call it Tanakh, and we prefer the translations by real Hebrew scholars with no Christian bias.Then you say…
Quote
No but killing people including children was.Can you give me 1 translation that eliminates the killing of woman and children by the Jews under YHWH's command?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,19:29) Hi Tow,
So that miracle happened but you eliminate humanistically repugnant truths?
I merely said that the recording of attribution of wholesale slaughter of people was evil and not of G-d. Writing of miracles were something else but not the act of an evil heart.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,00:43) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 25 2007,11:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,18:32) Hi Tow,
Was the miracle of Elisha raising the dead
written out of evil men's hearts?
No but killing people including children was.
TowYou say…
Quote
Yes, yours because Jews and those who do not believe that G-d has brought the new covenant yet will not call your biased translation of the Hebrew scripture 'ours'. We would much rather call it Tanakh, and we prefer the translations by real Hebrew scholars with no Christian bias.Then you say…
Quote
No but killing people including children was.Can you give me 1 translation that eliminates the killing of woman and children by the Jews under YHWH's command?
The bias is trying to reword the English in many instances to try to match the OT to Jesus when he cannot be found there. I do not speak of the record of men blaming G-d for the evil they wanted to do.Again, just like you say that Christians who killed and persecuted Jews were not Christians, I say that those who slaughtered others did not do so because G-d told them. If you accept that G-d DID tell them to do so, then be a man and unbiased and accept that Christians were killing Jews because their god told them to do it and that they were every bit a Christian as you claim to be.
HI Tow,
I must say that I sincerely respect and admire the deep belief of Nick and WorshippingJesus.
But I can not understand how otherwise rational people can convince themselves that the evil things that God supposedly commanded
were not evil because God can do no evil.I would think that God would be happier if His people chose not to believe what was falsely written about Him rather than
try to twist it into something good when it was not.
I wonder if Nick or WJ really thought that God was telling them to go kill every man, woman and child in a certain city,
if they would. I suspect that, being decent men, they would deny that God would even command such a thing. They would probably say that it was coming from satan. So why do they believe that God would command it of Moses?People like Hitler claimed that he was doing what God wanted when he commited genocide against the Jews.
Did anyone believe that?Tim
Tim,
Exactly. If some nut-job kills an abortion doctor and claims he did it because G-d told him too, everyone (except other nut-jobs) would deny that G-d had told him. Yet they will accept that G-d told men to slaugther so many in Tanakh? If they cannot accept both, then they forget the many passages about G-d never changing. Thus if they accept that G-d told people to kill one time, why not again?
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 25 2007,23:11) HI Tow, I must say that I sincerely respect and admire the deep belief of Nick and WorshippingJesus.
But I can not understand how otherwise rational people can convince themselves that the evil things that God supposedly commanded
were not evil because God can do no evil.I would think that God would be happier if His people chose not to believe what was falsely written about Him rather than
try to twist it into something good when it was not.
I wonder if Nick or WJ really thought that God was telling them to go kill every man, woman and child in a certain city,
if they would. I suspect that, being decent men, they would deny that God would even command such a thing. They would probably say that it was coming from satan. So why do they believe that God would command it of Moses?People like Hitler claimed that he was doing what God wanted when he commited genocide against the Jews.
Did anyone believe that?Tim
Hi Tim4.,
Make your mind up.
Either what is written is true or untrue.
If you decide it is untrue then you had better go in search of writings you can believe come from God.Nick, why do you believe on one hand that G-d told people to slaughter people, including children, and yet will not accept that Christians killed people and their god told them to do it? Instead you say they were not Christians.
Make up YOUR mind.
Hi Tow,
You have not grasped that the kingdom of Christ is not of this world
so those who kill for political or religious reasons do not know him.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,00:43) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 25 2007,11:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2007,18:32) Hi Tow,
Was the miracle of Elisha raising the dead
written out of evil men's hearts?
No but killing people including children was.
TowYou say…
Quote
Yes, yours because Jews and those who do not believe that G-d has brought the new covenant yet will not call your biased translation of the Hebrew scripture 'ours'. We would much rather call it Tanakh, and we prefer the translations by real Hebrew scholars with no Christian bias.Then you say…
Quote
No but killing people including children was.Can you give me 1 translation that eliminates the killing of woman and children by the Jews under YHWH's command?
Quote The bias is trying to reword the English in many instances to try to match the OT to Jesus when he cannot be found there. Yet, you give me no examples of what you call “real Hebrew scholars with no Christian bias”.
What Hebrew Translation are you refering to that excludes YHWH from commanding the Jews to kill the enemys of God?
Quote I do not speak of the record of men blaming G-d for the evil they wanted to do. Yes I noticed you do not speak of a lot in your proposed source for truth called the Tanakh and Torah.
In fact based on what you and Tim are proposing is that a huge part of the Hebrew text is either corrupt or biased or shouldnt be there.
Quote Again, just like you say that Christians who killed and persecuted Jews were not Christians, I say that those who slaughtered others did not do so because G-d told them .
Oh, so you agree now?The difference is my Bible the GT, which you say is “fairy tales” not once commands Christians to kill their enemys. Not once is there a recorded incident of such. However your Bible the “Tanakh” or Torah shows God commanding the Jews to kill and conquer their enemys. It seems that it would suit you better to believe in the God of the GT.
Quote If you accept that G-d DID tell them to do so, then be a man and unbiased and accept that Christians were killing Jews because their god told them to do it and that they were every bit a Christian as you claim to be .
I accept all that is written in the scriptures. The fact is Christians base their belief on a New Covenant where Yeshua died for the sin of the world. Under this new Covenant the righteous demands of a Holy God have been met.
Therefore just as YHWH told Noah that he would no more destroy the world by water so now God no longer commands men to kill his enemys but rather to love them.
This is the dipensation of 'Grace”.
But there will be a day of reckoning once again, when Yeshua will return in the Glory of the Father with the Holy Angels.
Yeshua is the key my friend.
So who are we to question God?
Deut 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.1 Chron 16:33
Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.Pss 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.Pss 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.Ps 98:9
Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.Every man will give account in that day!
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 26 2007,07:36) Then why did Jews kill others?
Hi Tow,
God told them to.
Would you like these bits removed from your bible?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,14:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 25 2007,00:43) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 25 2007,11:50) nick wrote:Hi Tow,
Was the miracle of Elisha raising the dead
written out of evil men's hearts?
No but killing people including children was.
TowYou say…
Quote
Yes, yours because Jews and those who do not believe that G-d has brought the new covenant yet will not call your biased translation of the Hebrew scripture 'ours'. We would much rather call it Tanakh, and we prefer the translations by real Hebrew scholars with no Christian bias.Then you say…
Quote
No but killing people including children was.Can you give me 1 translation that eliminates the killing of woman and children by the Jews under YHWH's command?
I already answered this. No offense, but I can see why Christians believe certain things: they ignore all other things because they must believe what they believe. I already told you that the supposed ordering of killing has nothing to do with the translation: it is there. I speak of verse that are translated with Christian bias to support Christian theology.
Quote Quote The bias is trying to reword the English in many instances to try to match the OT to Jesus when he cannot be found there. Yet, you give me no examples of what you call “real Hebrew scholars with no Christian bias”.
What Hebrew Translation are you refering to that excludes YHWH from commanding the Jews to kill the enemys of God?
Quote I do not speak of the record of men blaming G-d for the evil they wanted to do. Yes I noticed you do not speak of a lot in your proposed source for truth called the Tanakh and Torah.
In fact based on what you and Tim are proposing is that a huge part of the Hebrew text is either corrupt or biased or shouldnt be there.
No, what we propose (at least I) is that a loving G-d who created us would not be a G-d who would command the slaughter of people. He can create, why could He not carry out His own killing? To say G-d commanded such brings Him down to the level of humanity.
So the writings there are not corrupt, they are the result of men wanting to blame G-d for their own wanton actions.
Quote Quote Again, just like you say that Christians who killed and persecuted Jews were not Christians, I say that those who slaughtered others did not do so because G-d told them .
Oh, so you agree now?Yes, I agree that many people have wicked hearts, regardless of what religion they do or don't adhere to. I was merely trying to get you to see that. Instead, you just try to say those people where not Christians.
Quote The difference is my Bible the GT, which you say is “fairy tales” not once commands Christians to kill their enemys. Not once is there a recorded incident of such. However your Bible the “Tanakh” or Torah shows God commanding the Jews to kill and conquer their enemys. It seems that it would suit you better to believe in the God of the GT. Then why do you accept that the father of Jesus is YHVH? Can YHVH change? Is Jesus not supposed to be of the same will as his father? Then you are making a case that YHVH is definitely not your god.
Quote Quote If you accept that G-d DID tell them to do so, then be a man and unbiased and accept that Christians were killing Jews because their god told them to do it and that they were every bit a Christian as you claim to be .
I accept all that is written in the scriptures. The fact is Christians base their belief on a New Covenant where Yeshua died for the sin of the world. Under this new Covenant the righteous demands of a Holy God have been met.
So the unchanging G-d suddenly changed because of Jesus?
Quote Therefore just as YHWH told Noah that he would no more destroy the world by water so now God no longer commands men to kill his enemys but rather to love them. So much for an unchanging G-d.
Quote This is the dipensation of 'Grace”. But there will be a day of reckoning once again, when Yeshua will return in the Glory of the Father with the Holy Angels.
Yeshua is the key my friend.
So who are we to question God?
Deut 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.1 Chron 16:33
Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.Pss 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.Pss 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth
.Ps 98:9
Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.Every man will give account in that day!
I like your response. In it, you practically reveal that YHVH is not the father of Jesus, a fact I've known for some time now. You're coming closer to the truth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,15:31) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 26 2007,07:36) Then why did Jews kill others?
Hi Tow,
God told them to.
Would you like these bits removed from your bible?
Then why can't you accept Christians were inspired to kill and persecute Jews? Because it happened after the GT was already written?Hi Tow,
After Christ we who are in him exhibit the fruit of the Spirit as shown in Galatians 5.
It does not include murder and pillage based on any human religion.Hi Tow,
God has not changed.
How He expresses Himself among men does.
The kingdom of God is one of love and kindness, peace and order and freedom.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,17:32) Hi Tow,
God has not changed.
How He expresses Himself among men does.
The kingdom of God is one of love and kindness, peace and order and freedom.
Then what was it before Jesus? Remember, same G-d according to you.
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