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And it is your right to do so as it is my personal right to see the fallacy in trying to show Jesus in the OT.
And some of the Pharisees had the right to disagree that Jesus was the messiah and the son of God. But the right to do something doesn't equate to being right.
Humans have the right to be wrong, that I agree with.
Quote Psalm 69:4 They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away. Quote Matt. 15:23
He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
15:24
If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
15:25
But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law *, They hated me without a cause.Verse 15:25 states that it is written in the law “They hated me without a cause”. I can't find this statement in the OT. The verse 69:4 reads differently than this.
Quote Psalm 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me. Quote Joh 2:17
And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.The disciples remembered that it was written. This just means that the same zeal that David had for the house of God, Jesus had also. This does not say that Psalm 69:9 referred to Jesus.
Quote Psalm 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Quote Mt 27:34
They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.Mt 27:48
And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.Mr 15:36
And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.Lu 23:36
And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,Joh 19:29
Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.Joh 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.No reference is made to Psalm 69 in the above verses.
Quote 69:22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. Quote Romans 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: The Apostle Paul does make reference to Psalm 69:22, but saying, David saith. No mention of Jesus saying this.
So, as I see it, that leaves John 15:25 with the statement: “They hated me without a cause”. Where is it written in the Law?
Any comments?
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2008,18:04) And some of the Pharisees had the right to disagree that Jesus was the messiah and the son of God. But the right to do something doesn't equate to being right. Humans have the right to be wrong, that I agree with.
And why wouldn't they have the right? Are you saying you know the Hebrew scriptures better than they did? They did not accept Jesus because he did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. It can be no simpler than that.Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:13) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2008,18:04) And some of the Pharisees had the right to disagree that Jesus was the messiah and the son of God. But the right to do something doesn't equate to being right. Humans have the right to be wrong, that I agree with.
And why wouldn't they have the right? Are you saying you know the Hebrew scriptures better than they did? They did not accept Jesus because he did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. It can be no simpler than that.Hi KJ:
Quote 26 Then said they(the Pharisees) to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes? 27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples? 28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples. 29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. 30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. 31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. 32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. 34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast F21 him out. 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
God confirmed what Jesus was teaching with such miracles as that above, and so, who was right Jesus or the Pharisees?
Hi KJ,
Not antisemitic at all.
There are blessed Jews who remain in the remnant of God and Jews who oppose the work of God
and the ones you have aligned yourself with are the deceived ones who said
“His blood be on us and on our children”Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:01) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:13) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2008,18:04) And some of the Pharisees had the right to disagree that Jesus was the messiah and the son of God. But the right to do something doesn't equate to being right. Humans have the right to be wrong, that I agree with.
And why wouldn't they have the right? Are you saying you know the Hebrew scriptures better than they did? They did not accept Jesus because he did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. It can be no simpler than that.Hi KJ:
Quote 26 Then said they(the Pharisees) to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes? 27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples? 28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples. 29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. 30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. 31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. 32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. 34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast F21 him out. 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
God confirmed what Jesus was teaching with such miracles as that above, and so, who was right Jesus or the Pharisees?
I see nothing there where God approved of Him? In the OT, we hear much from God. In the NT, God is absent except in name. Unless you view Jesus as God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:01) Hi KJ,
Not antisemitic at all.
There are blessed Jews who remain in the remnant of God and Jews who oppose the work of God
and the ones you have aligned yourself with are the deceived ones who said
“His blood be on us and on our children”
I align myself with my fellow man, not just one particular race or religion. Such attitudes have resulted in many atrocities throughout history. The man who feels he has the favor of God tends to boast on a relationship that might not be based in reality and thus attempts to use such fallacious favor to assert some type of unfounded authority. I don't try to be so bold.Hi All:
I said:
Quote So, as I see it, that leaves John 15:25 with the statement: “They hated me without a cause”. Where is it written in the Law? This is written in the Psalms by David, but what I am understanding, is that this is a general statement that applies to the enemies of God hating God's people. This is not a statement that is said exclusively of Jesus for he tells us who are his disciples:
Quote John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Quote Ps 35:19
Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.I believe that this is the answer in that the enemies of God hate God's people without cause.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:03) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.
No, I am not here to sort what is true for you but I will share what I find to be true in my own life. I do this because I find that most religions are selfish and try to say that God is for them alone. Christianity is no better I fear. In the bible you get the idea that Christians will be favored and will rule over others. This is a selfish thought and filled with an air of superiority, a very human trait. It is no better than what a radical Muslim might believe.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:01) Hi KJ,
Not antisemitic at all.
There are blessed Jews who remain in the remnant of God and Jews who oppose the work of God
and the ones you have aligned yourself with are the deceived ones who said
“His blood be on us and on our children”
I align myself with my fellow man, not just one particular race or religion. Such attitudes have resulted in many atrocities throughout history. The man who feels he has the favor of God tends to boast on a relationship that might not be based in reality and thus attempts to use such fallacious favor to assert some type of unfounded authority. I don't try to be so bold.
Hi KJ,
Humanism has always been a popular alternative to humble service of our God.There is no poorer servant than myself, ever hoping that the fruit from the investment given me pleases my Master.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:03) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.
No, I am not here to sort what is true for you but I will share what I find to be true in my own life. I do this because I find that most religions are selfish and try to say that God is for them alone. Christianity is no better I fear. In the bible you get the idea that Christians will be favored and will rule over others. This is a selfish thought and filled with an air of superiority, a very human trait. It is no better than what a radical Muslim might believe.
Hi KJ:I believe that you are speaking out of minunderstanding of Christianity.
For all Christians and especially, someone authority the following applies:
Quote Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion F7 as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:29) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:01) Hi KJ,
Not antisemitic at all.
There are blessed Jews who remain in the remnant of God and Jews who oppose the work of God
and the ones you have aligned yourself with are the deceived ones who said
“His blood be on us and on our children”
I align myself with my fellow man, not just one particular race or religion. Such attitudes have resulted in many atrocities throughout history. The man who feels he has the favor of God tends to boast on a relationship that might not be based in reality and thus attempts to use such fallacious favor to assert some type of unfounded authority. I don't try to be so bold.
Hi KJ,
Humanism has always been a popular alternative to humble service of our God.There is no poorer servant than myself, ever hoping that the fruit from the investment given me pleases my Master.
Since God created man, how can you call service to our fellow man as evil? You espouse one religion over another therefore casting out millions into some outer darkness because your selfish thoughts say you are among the elite although you pretend to be humble. Any one religion that claims to be the only true way is indeed selfish and not humble but full of self-importance and selfish idealism.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:59) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:03) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.
No, I am not here to sort what is true for you but I will share what I find to be true in my own life. I do this because I find that most religions are selfish and try to say that God is for them alone. Christianity is no better I fear. In the bible you get the idea that Christians will be favored and will rule over others. This is a selfish thought and filled with an air of superiority, a very human trait. It is no better than what a radical Muslim might believe.
Hi KJ:I believe that you are speaking out of minunderstanding of Christianity.
For all Christians and especially, someone authority the following applies:
Quote Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion F7 as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wrong. I know all about Christianity. It is one way but it is not the only way. If you truly believe that that you need to accept that you have a limiting view of the God of the universe. To say that God only revealed himself through one man in the 1st century CE to a handful of people says you don't think much of that God, IMHO.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,14:04) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:59) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:03) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.
No, I am not here to sort what is true for you but I will share what I find to be true in my own life. I do this because I find that most religions are selfish and try to say that God is for them alone. Christianity is no better I fear. In the bible you get the idea that Christians will be favored and will rule over others. This is a selfish thought and filled with an air of superiority, a very human trait. It is no better than what a radical Muslim might believe.
Hi KJ:I believe that you are speaking out of minunderstanding of Christianity.
For all Christians and especially, someone authority the following applies:
Quote Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion F7 as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wrong. I know all about Christianity. It is one way but it is not the only way. If you truly believe that that you need to accept that you have a limiting view of the God of the universe. To say that God only revealed himself through one man in the 1st century CE to a handful of people says you don't think much of that God, IMHO.
Hi Kj:Jesus was sent by God and I believe him when he has said:
Quote John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Sorry, but your opinion does not over-ride something that God has said to me through my Lord,
Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity. He is the propitiation for our sins. Only his blood will wash away our sins. There is not other way.
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