- This topic is empty.
- Posts
So it is the safest measure to continue to blindly believe words written thousands of years ago that don't hold up well under scrutiny?
Hi KJ,
Your own logical scrutiny perhaps.
God's children are well satisfied.2Cor11
1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Yes, and that is their right. But here we have a thread about “uncertainty” do we not? The answer to such uncertainty may not be to simply have faith because sometimes that is easier said than done. Uncertainty often requires answers and thus far people have not been forthcoming with concrete ones.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,15:22) Hi KJ,
If reason must be your foundation then faith cannot be.
So faith should be a mindless endeavor?Quote (Mr. Steve @ Feb. 18 2008,15:24) Kejonn; What happened?
Steven
Eh? The Old Testamanet happened. I sought to study the OT because I had been ignoring it for years. When I did too many things started to jump out at me.The biggest thing to me the confusion over God and Jesus. Jews aren't confused about the nature of God yet it seems that Christians have so many different ideas about the nature of God. Much of that confusion comes from the NT, not the OT. In Christianity, Jesus is God, Jesus is trinity, Jesus is an angel, Jesus is a man. In Judaism, God is God, God is spirit, and man is man. End of story, no confusion.
Hi KJ,
If you were in Athens and heard Paul preach, would you take him aside and nail him down on every issue before you made any decision? Or would you know he spoke a message from our God and you should obey that message and think later? He did not stay long and few listened and obeyed God.If I was in Athens, I would likely have ignored him. After all, people are a product of their culture and paganism abounded in Athens. You act as if people should make a spur of the moment decision and blindly follow that for the rest of their life.
Hi KJ,
Then you would not have made the wiser decision?
Certainly men outside of Christ are controlled by the spirit of the air[eph]but God chooses and calls.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,08:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,15:22) Hi KJ,
If reason must be your foundation then faith cannot be.
So faith should be a mindless endeavor?
Hi KJ,
Certainly the human mind is the greatest barrier to truth.
We must be transformed by the renewal of our mind unto the mind of Christ.Rom 12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Cor 2
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,15:38) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,08:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,15:22) Hi KJ,
If reason must be your foundation then faith cannot be.
So faith should be a mindless endeavor?
Hi KJ,
Certainly the human mind is the greatest barrier to truth.
We must be transformed by the renewal of our mind unto the mind of Christ.
Does it even make you wonder why others think Christians are brainwashed with statements like this?Hi KJ,
Are you embarrassed to be a fool for Christ and his God?1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;I embaressed to be a fool regardless. Paul was not telling us to be fools in any case. No, I'm just willing to accept that God is not knowable to the extent we can know other people, because the view of Him has even changed within the bible. That is the way of things: most religions are just mankind's view of God.
Hi KJ,
You say
“most religions are just mankind's view of God.”Religion is different for us.
It is unlike the world which worships idols.
James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.We do not struggle to find God but are saved by faith in His Son and then free to serve Him.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 18 2008,14:41) 94, Brother thank you for admitting that it's a bit difficult to understand. As far as I can see, those who want to attribute the majority of the Psalm to Jesus but withold the negative parts do so by discrimination. Everyone discriminates differently. Therefore I do not believe we can attribute this Psalm truthfully to the Lord Jesus, in my opinion.
What is so very interesting to me though, is that even though there appears to be a problem with tying Jesus in to this Psalm….most Christians will based on faith OR the fact that we may never fully understand. This frustrates me. Does this mean that when we come accross difficult passages we should just put our heads in the sand and cry, “Faith! Faith!”?
I prefer your advice, 94. We need to pray and ask God for understanding. Perhaps we are wrong to attribute this to Jesus. Wouldn't that be something to consider?
Hi Not3:I am praying and asking God for understanding. There has to be an explanation, but because the Holy Spirit dwelling within me testifies to the fact that Jesus is God's Only begotten Son and His Christ, I will never deny my Lord, knowing what he went through in my behalf.
In addition, I have had many personal experiences that testify to this reality.
But there has been some tampering with the bible. That is an obvious fact.
But God answers my prayers, and I know that He will give me understanding relative to this Psalm. I am looking at 69:21-22. 69:4, 69:9 which sound like verses which have been attributed to Jesus.
God Bless you Mandy, I hope that you and your family are doing well.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,14:53) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 17 2008,21:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,11:56) Hi not3,
He did carry the sin of all men to the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Was that the original plan? That the promised Messiah should bear the sin of the world? Where is that laid out in the OT regarding the One to come? Thanks.
The closest you will come to what Jesus was supposed to fulfill is found in Isa 53. Even then, it is special pleading because neither Jesus nor his disciples ever mentioned that passage.In the end, the life of Jesus would never have been know without Paul. Paul wrote the first words about him, yet never knew him. The rest is, as they say, history. The life of Jesus brings the knowledge of God to the rest of the world beyond the Jews. IMHO that was the true purpose of Jesus.
Hi Kj:Isaiah 53 accurately describes what God has done for humanity through Jesus whether or not there may be sufficient scriptures quoted from this passage of scripture in the NT.
Quote 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. The following verse of scriputre in the NT has the last part of the above verse but only in the past tense.
Quote 1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2008,10:00) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,14:53) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 17 2008,21:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,11:56) Hi not3,
He did carry the sin of all men to the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Was that the original plan? That the promised Messiah should bear the sin of the world? Where is that laid out in the OT regarding the One to come? Thanks.
The closest you will come to what Jesus was supposed to fulfill is found in Isa 53. Even then, it is special pleading because neither Jesus nor his disciples ever mentioned that passage.In the end, the life of Jesus would never have been know without Paul. Paul wrote the first words about him, yet never knew him. The rest is, as they say, history. The life of Jesus brings the knowledge of God to the rest of the world beyond the Jews. IMHO that was the true purpose of Jesus.
Hi Kj:Isaiah 53 accurately describes what God has done for humanity through Jesus whether or not there may be sufficient scriptures quoted from this passage of scripture in the NT.
Quote 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. The following verse of scriputre in the NT has the last part of the above verse but only in the past tense.
Quote 1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
942767 I have given all the scriptures in Isaiah and those that I thought in Psalms that speak of Jesus, but not3in1 has decided to ignore those, I guess. So has Kejonn unfortunately.
I would like to make a suggestion for those who can Fast to do so and pray for Her. I am to sick to fast, but I will pray tonight again. If we do so maybe God will show Her how wrong She is. In Hope and Love Mrs.Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 18 2008,17:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2008,10:00) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,14:53) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 17 2008,21:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,11:56) Hi not3,
He did carry the sin of all men to the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Was that the original plan? That the promised Messiah should bear the sin of the world? Where is that laid out in the OT regarding the One to come? Thanks.
The closest you will come to what Jesus was supposed to fulfill is found in Isa 53. Even then, it is special pleading because neither Jesus nor his disciples ever mentioned that passage.In the end, the life of Jesus would never have been know without Paul. Paul wrote the first words about him, yet never knew him. The rest is, as they say, history. The life of Jesus brings the knowledge of God to the rest of the world beyond the Jews. IMHO that was the true purpose of Jesus.
Hi Kj:Isaiah 53 accurately describes what God has done for humanity through Jesus whether or not there may be sufficient scriptures quoted from this passage of scripture in the NT.
Quote 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. The following verse of scriputre in the NT has the last part of the above verse but only in the past tense.
Quote 1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
942767 I have given all the scriptures in Isaiah and those that I thought in Psalms that speak of Jesus, but not3in1 has decided to ignore those, I guess. So has Kejonn unfortunately.
I would like to make a suggestion for those who can Fast to do so and pray for Her. I am to sick to fast, but I will pray tonight again. If we do so maybe God will show Her how wrong She is. In Hope and Love Mrs.
I have not ignored, I have just decided not to engage because I can easily show the error in your application. Almost every supposed prophecy about Jesus in the OT is taken out of context.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,10:28) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 18 2008,17:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2008,10:00) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,14:53) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 17 2008,21:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,11:56) Hi not3,
He did carry the sin of all men to the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Was that the original plan? That the promised Messiah should bear the sin of the world? Where is that laid out in the OT regarding the One to come? Thanks.
The closest you will come to what Jesus was supposed to fulfill is found in Isa 53. Even then, it is special pleading because neither Jesus nor his disciples ever mentioned that passage.In the end, the life of Jesus would never have been know without Paul. Paul wrote the first words about him, yet never knew him. The rest is, as they say, history. The life of Jesus brings the knowledge of God to the rest of the world beyond the Jews. IMHO that was the true purpose of Jesus.
Hi Kj:Isaiah 53 accurately describes what God has done for humanity through Jesus whether or not there may be sufficient scriptures quoted from this passage of scripture in the NT.
Quote 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded F243 for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. The following verse of scriputre in the NT has the last part of the above verse but only in the past tense.
Quote 1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
942767 I have given all the scriptures in Isaiah and those that I thought in Psalms that speak of Jesus, but not3in1 has decided to ignore those, I guess. So has Kejonn unfortunately.
I would like to make a suggestion for those who can Fast to do so and pray for Her. I am to sick to fast, but I will pray tonight again. If we do so maybe God will show Her how wrong She is. In Hope and Love Mrs.
I have not ignored, I have just decided not to engage because I can easily show the error in your application. Almost every supposed prophecy about Jesus in the OT is taken out of context.
Sorry but I don't see it that way.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
