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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2008,11:12) Heb11
“1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. “Faith IS the evidence.
To see requires less faith.
We walk by faith and not by sight.
Amen to that!
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 14 2008,01:56) Mandy in order to see what you are talking about please give me an example of scriptures. Not believing that Jesus is not the Messiah is a hard thing. You belief that He is of the N.T. but it does not line up with the O.T. In what way does it not line up, you have to give Scriptures to see what exactly you are saying. The 10 Commandments are written in Stone and you should not doubt that! It is not hidden somewhere, what are you saying? I do believe that God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses. We cant live without some kind of rule in our lives or you would have Anarchy.
My full name is Mrs. Irene Augusta and last name.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks for your reply sister.No where in the OT does it say that the promised Messiah will come once and accomplish very little, and then come again and accomplish all that is prophesied about him.
Why is the OT so hush-hush on the “second coming of Christ”?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,04:38) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 14 2008,01:56) Mandy in order to see what you are talking about please give me an example of scriptures. Not believing that Jesus is not the Messiah is a hard thing. You belief that He is of the N.T. but it does not line up with the O.T. In what way does it not line up, you have to give Scriptures to see what exactly you are saying. The 10 Commandments are written in Stone and you should not doubt that! It is not hidden somewhere, what are you saying? I do believe that God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses. We cant live without some kind of rule in our lives or you would have Anarchy.
My full name is Mrs. Irene Augusta and last name.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks for your reply sister.No where in the OT does it say that the promised Messiah will come once and accomplish very little, and then come again and accomplish all that is prophesied about him.
Why is the OT so hush-hush on the “second coming of Christ”?
The only explanation I can think of is that the jesish people did not even think that He came the first time. They do not accknodwledge Him. Since they are the once that crucified Him. Romans tells you how God will graft His People into the Kingdom. We had a study about this with the Baptist Church about this subject, I wish I had it still, but I don't know what happend to it. Maybe I'll ask t8 if He has anything on this. O.K.Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks, sis.
The Jews didn't recognize him because he didn't match their holy scriptures! This is cause for alarm, don't you think? Was God trying to trick his own people? Why did Jesus not match the promised Messiah in the OT?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,04:38) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 14 2008,01:56) Mandy in order to see what you are talking about please give me an example of scriptures. Not believing that Jesus is not the Messiah is a hard thing. You belief that He is of the N.T. but it does not line up with the O.T. In what way does it not line up, you have to give Scriptures to see what exactly you are saying. The 10 Commandments are written in Stone and you should not doubt that! It is not hidden somewhere, what are you saying? I do believe that God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses. We cant live without some kind of rule in our lives or you would have Anarchy.
My full name is Mrs. Irene Augusta and last name.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks for your reply sister.No where in the OT does it say that the promised Messiah will come once and accomplish very little, and then come again and accomplish all that is prophesied about him.
Why is the OT so hush-hush on the “second coming of Christ”?
Hi not3,
Do a bible search on SECRET and the MYSTERY of Christ and you will find that God did this deliberately for His own reasons and we should not enter into debate with Him about His plan.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,04:38) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 14 2008,01:56) Mandy in order to see what you are talking about please give me an example of scriptures. Not believing that Jesus is not the Messiah is a hard thing. You belief that He is of the N.T. but it does not line up with the O.T. In what way does it not line up, you have to give Scriptures to see what exactly you are saying. The 10 Commandments are written in Stone and you should not doubt that! It is not hidden somewhere, what are you saying? I do believe that God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses. We cant live without some kind of rule in our lives or you would have Anarchy.
My full name is Mrs. Irene Augusta and last name.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks for your reply sister.No where in the OT does it say that the promised Messiah will come once and accomplish very little, and then come again and accomplish all that is prophesied about him.
Why is the OT so hush-hush on the “second coming of Christ”?
Christ had divine origins and was with God the Father in the beginning. He is a servant of God and the channel for the saving works of God.Acts 3:26 ” For you first, God raised up His Sarvant and set Him to bless you by turning every one of you away from your wicked ways.”
The OT give us a lot of details about “in the beginning”, but oddly enough there is no mention of Jesus with God in the beginning. We are not told that the promised Messiah was “with God” in the beginning. We are not told of Jesus anywhere in the OT. We are told of a promised Messiah, but we are not told of Jesus specifically.
The NT buttons this up by saying that Jesus is the “mystery” of God who was hidden. Hmmmmm. OK. But does the OT say that the promised Messiah was “hidden” somewhere? The OT and the NT just do not mesh so much of the time. It's hard to make heads or tails of it sometimes. I feel like I'm going down rabbit trails so much of the time.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:38) The OT and the NT just do not mesh so much of the time. It's hard to make heads or tails of it sometimes. I feel like I'm going down rabbit trails so much of the time.
Have you spoken to your pastor or an elder in your church?Sometimes talking to someone else well versed in the Bible can throw a whole new light on things.
Hi Heavens,
You've no idea how many people I've chatted with in the church! Truly, at the beginning of my study in 2003, I talked to everyone and anyone; I stopped counting when the numbers went over a hundred. I even talked to a man in a mega-church who had the title, “Trinity Answer Man”; he was of little help.
At any rate, I was raised in the church and was very active in the church all my life. I've sought out counsel. The problem is that no one has the answers. All resort to, “Just have faith….”, or “It's a mystery….”. The search continues.
I don't mean to sound so curt. And I do appreciate your suggestion very much!
It's just……I've already tried to talk to pastor's and those who should be “in the know”………and they don't know. It's disheartening, to say the very least.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:55) The search continues.
The important thing is that you keep searching.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:57) I don't mean to sound so curt. And I do appreciate your suggestion very much! It's just……I've already tried to talk to pastor's and those who should be “in the know”………and they don't know. It's disheartening, to say the very least.
No offence taken.I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you.
You mention `study'. Is that in Bible College or your own personal study?
Wow! What a pretty bracelet – thanks!
I went to bible college right out of high school but never graduated (go figure – ha). My parents wanted me to go to a “real” college, so I didn't last very long there.
The true studying I have done has been personal. I've also studied with the Christadelph's and Church of God folks.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 15 2008,04:38) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 14 2008,01:56) Mandy in order to see what you are talking about please give me an example of scriptures. Not believing that Jesus is not the Messiah is a hard thing. You belief that He is of the N.T. but it does not line up with the O.T. In what way does it not line up, you have to give Scriptures to see what exactly you are saying. The 10 Commandments are written in Stone and you should not doubt that! It is not hidden somewhere, what are you saying? I do believe that God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses. We cant live without some kind of rule in our lives or you would have Anarchy.
My full name is Mrs. Irene Augusta and last name.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Thanks for your reply sister.No where in the OT does it say that the promised Messiah will come once and accomplish very little, and then come again and accomplish all that is prophesied about him.
Why is the OT so hush-hush on the “second coming of Christ”?
Hi not3,
Accomplish very little?
He has laid the groundwork well.
He has satisfied the anger of God and ransomed mankind.
He has defeated the god of this world and raised an army to continue his work.
He has rescued millions from the wrath of God and still offers that safety.
The rest of the victory is written.
It is finished.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,19:38) The OT give us a lot of details about “in the beginning”, but oddly enough there is no mention of Jesus with God in the beginning. We are not told that the promised Messiah was “with God” in the beginning. We are not told of Jesus anywhere in the OT. We are told of a promised Messiah, but we are not told of Jesus specifically. The NT buttons this up by saying that Jesus is the “mystery” of God who was hidden. Hmmmmm. OK. But does the OT say that the promised Messiah was “hidden” somewhere? The OT and the NT just do not mesh so much of the time. It's hard to make heads or tails of it sometimes. I feel like I'm going down rabbit trails so much of the time.
Mandy Proverb 8:22-30 it only takes one out of the old testament to convince me.
But why does it matter so much that it has to be written in the O.T. too. Not everything in the New is in the Old and why should it be?
As far as Jesus preexisting is concerned, who was there with God when He created men. It says ” Let us make men in Our Image.”
So who was He talking about? Not only that when you hear God speaking it is Jesus. God is only a title. The Fathers name is Jehovah. The word was in the beginning and He was God(title) He was the spoken word of Jehovah. To understand it easier I look at it like it being a Family name. The Word God, the Father God. The Word then became flesh and dwelt among us.
John 5:37
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold a Virgin shall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child to us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: And the government shall upon His shoulders: And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 11:1 ” And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of His roots.”
verse 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, the spirit of Wisdom and understanding, the spirit of Counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my Servant, Whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom my Soul delighteth: He shall bring forth judgement to the gentiles.
verse 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause His voice to be heard in the Street.
verse 3 A bruised reed shall He not break and the smoking flax shall He not quench: He shall bring forth judgement unto truth.
verse 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the gentles.
Isaiah 52:18 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, He shall be exulted and extolled, and be very high.
verse 14 As many were astonished at thee; His visage was so marred more then any man, and His form more then the sons of man.
Is. 53: 5 But He was wounded for our transgression, He was bruised for our iniquities : Thee chastisement of our Peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
verse 10 yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief: When thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
verse 11 He shall see of the travail of His soul and shall be satisfied: by His knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for He shall bear there iniquity.
Psalm 69:21 They gave Me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave Me vinegar to drink.
Psalm 91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, least thou dash thy feet against a stone.
Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave My soul in Hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy one to see corruption.
Jesus was there in the very beginning with the Father. The Son of God had also many Names. I see Jesus very much so in the Old Testament scriptures. This is how the Israelites should have identified Him.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Nick,
Quote He has satisfied the anger of God and ransomed mankind.
Are we told in the OT that “satisfying God's anger” was the reason the Messiah was promised?Quote He has defeated the god of this world and raised an army to continue his work.
If the god of this world is defeated as you say, why can Christians lose their salvation by giving into the temptations of this defeated one? It sure sounds like this “defeated” one still has power?Quote He has rescued millions from the wrath of God and still offers that safety.
So you believe “once-saved-always-saved”?Quote It is finished.
Not quite. If it was a wrap when Jesus died and was glorified, what are we doing here struggling with the very words of God?Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 16 2008,18:50) Hi Nick, Quote He has satisfied the anger of God and ransomed mankind.
Are we told in the OT that “satisfying God's anger” was the reason the Messiah was promised?Quote He has defeated the god of this world and raised an army to continue his work.
If the god of this world is defeated as you say, why can Christians lose their salvation by giving into the temptations of this defeated one? It sure sounds like this “defeated” one still has power?Quote He has rescued millions from the wrath of God and still offers that safety.
So you believe “once-saved-always-saved”?Quote It is finished.
Not quite. If it was a wrap when Jesus died and was glorified, what are we doing here struggling with the very words of God?
What has changed from the curse of Adam and Eve? Women still bear pain in childbirth, humans still toil for food. We are supposedly promised eternal life, but who can say with certainty because everyone does indeed die a physical death.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 17 2008,11:50) If the god of this world is defeated as you say, why can Christians lose their salvation by giving into the temptations of this defeated one?
Perhaps because we are only human, and imperfect?
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