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Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 24 2008,23:20) I love it when people make excuses for the goof-ups of others after the fact. Paul could have worded it differently, but he wrote what he wrote. Its no big deal, we just see another instance why Paul is not perfect and still sins. Why is that a big deal? Why do you feel you must cover it up and make excuses?
Do you really think Paul meant that he 'sneakily stole' or 'took by force'?Get real.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 26 2008,13:51) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 24 2008,23:20) I love it when people make excuses for the goof-ups of others after the fact. Paul could have worded it differently, but he wrote what he wrote. Its no big deal, we just see another instance why Paul is not perfect and still sins. Why is that a big deal? Why do you feel you must cover it up and make excuses?
Do you really think Paul meant that he 'sneakily stole' or 'took by force'?Get real.
Would you have used the word “rob”? In Greek of course. It could have been rephrased.Hi KJ,
When folk suffers doubts should they publically dig up their foundations and become preachers of negativity?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 24 2008,19:33) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 24 2008,13:48) The OT says - Lev 19:11 'You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
Paul says
- 2Co 11:8 I robbed other churches by taking wages from them to serve you;
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
Just showing Paul was a faulty human. Knock him off that pedestal and just admit he was a great teacher with his own set of faults.
2 Corinthians 11:8I robbed other churches – The churches of Macedonia and elsewhere, which had ministered to his needs. Probably he refers especially to the church at Philippi (see Philippians 4:15-16), which seems to have done more than almost any other church for his support. By the use of the word “robbed” here Paul does not mean that he had obtained anything from them in a violent or unlawful manner, or anything which they did not give voluntarily. The word ( ̓́ esulēsa ) means properly, “I spoiled, plundered, robbed,” but the idea of Paul here is, that he, as it were, robbed them, because he did not render an equivalent for what they gave him. They supported him when he was laboring for another people. A conqueror who plunders a country gives no equivalent for what he takes. In this sense only could Paul say that he had plundered the church at Philippi. His general principle was, that “the laborer was worthy of his hire,” and that a man was to receive his support from the people for whom he labored (see I Corinthians 9:7-14), but this rule he had not observed in this case.
Taking wages of them – Receiving a support from them. They bore my expenses.
To do you service – That I might labor among you without being supposed to be striving to obtain your property, and that I might not be compelled to labor with my own hands, and thus to prevent my preaching the gospel as I could otherwise do. The supply from other churches rendered it unnecessary in a great measure that his time should be taken off from the ministry in order to obtain a support.
Source: http://bibletools.org/….s
Hi Brother Isaiah:I agree with what has been said here and the explantion for the following verse:
Quote 3:7
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?Is in the following verse:
Quote 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say *,) Let us do evil, that good may come ? whose damnation is just.The Apostle Paul was being falsely accused of preaching that we should continue to sin since it made God's righteousness stand out the more because of our sin. Since salvation was by grace, they were saying that the Apostle was saying that we should continue to sin that grace might abound.
It is true that it is sometimes difficult to understand the Apostle Paul at times, which the Apostle Peter also asserts, but before we accuse, we need to do a little studying and a little praying.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 26 2008,14:29) Like Mandy said….figure of speech….it's pretty obvious.
How is it obvious, because it needs to be to make Paul more than he is — human?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 26 2008,15:06) Hi KJ,
When folk suffers doubts should they publically dig up their foundations and become preachers of negativity?
Why, does it make you start to doubt?I guess this is the scenario: “All of what I am writing is true”
“Why?”
“Because God inspired me”
“Oh, you're right, it must be true then”.
If we confess that we were wromg, He is quick to forgive us. We all make mistakes, but not believing in scriptures, I think we need to think twiced before we decide were we want to go, and what we want to believe. Otherwise
Hebrew6:4 might come to pass for those.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Heavens @ Feb. 12 2008,18:20) I just wondered how Chriztena is getting on? 
You mean Chrissy or Mandy, or Amanda, or who?
Amanda is doing fine I think. O.K. Mandy your turn.Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 12 2008,19:18) Quote (Heavens @ Feb. 12 2008,18:20) I just wondered how Chriztena is getting on?
You mean Chrissy or Mandy, or Amanda, or who?
Amanda is doing fine I think. O.K. Mandy your turn.
I'm not sure who she means? But I'm assuming because the thread has a lot to do with my doubt that she is referring to me?If this is the case, thanks for asking Heavens. I'm doing OK. I've been pretty sick; this is week 3 of double pneumonia for me. I just came in from a short walk because of the cabin fever. I'm an outdoorsy type and hate to be stuck inside for too long (let alone in bed).
I'm still in a state of doubt. Not that God exists and that he is the Creator and lover of my soul, but all the other stuff. There are too many questions that seem to have no answers. There are too many times when “faith” is the only clear reason for anything. There are too many people who think they possess the ONLY TRUTH for them to all be right. I'm still searching……still believing…..but still searching. I'm doing a lot of back-reading of various threads and bible study right now.
Thanks for being with us and contributing. Hope you find a community of friends here, I know that I have.
Love,
MandyQuote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 12 2008,19:18) Quote (Heavens @ Feb. 12 2008,18:20) I just wondered how Chriztena is getting on?
You mean Chrissy or Mandy, or Amanda, or who?
Amanda is doing fine I think. O.K. Mandy your turn.
Irene,I just realized that CHRIZTENA is the one who started this thread! Ha!
Heavens, I have no idea how she is getting along as she has been MIA since I have been here.
Hi not3,
Heb11
“1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. “Faith IS the evidence.
To see requires less faith.
We walk by faith and not by sight.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 13 2008,10:48) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 12 2008,19:18) Quote (Heavens @ Feb. 12 2008,18:20) I just wondered how Chriztena is getting on?
You mean Chrissy or Mandy, or Amanda, or who?
Amanda is doing fine I think. O.K. Mandy your turn. I'm not sure who she means? But I'm assuming because the thread has a lot to do with my doubt that she is referring to me?If this is the case, thanks for asking Heavens. I'm doing OK. I've been pretty sick; this is week 3 of double pneumonia for me. I just came in from a short walk because of the cabin fever. I'm an outdoorsy type and hate to be stuck inside for too long (let alone in bed).
I'm still in a state of doubt. Not that God exists and that he is the Creator and lover of my soul, but all the other stuff. There are too many questions that seem to have no answers. There are too many times when “faith” is the only clear reason for anything. There are too many people who think they possess the ONLY TRUTH for them to all be right. I'm still searching……still believing…..but still searching. I'm doing a lot of back-reading of various threads and bible study right now.
Thanks for being with us and contributing. Hope you find a community of friends here, I know that I have.
Love,
Mandy
Mandy! Do you doubt that Jesus is our Messiah, like keyonn does? And why? I think I asked you that before. Would like to help you with this, if I can. I have no doubt that Jesus is my Messiah. Then you have doubt in all of the N.T. writings too? One thing I do know that it was a Catholic Priest that got all the little pieces of paper from the letters of Paul together and put it into what we call the Bible today. He could have very well missed some or interpreted it wrong so it does not line up with other O.T. Scriptures. But as the whole of all it fits.
Sorry that you are still sick. Pneumonia can take sometime more then a month, I know had many. It leaves you so weak, but rest is best for you right now, so take it easy, love you.
Peace and Love AugustaIs it “Irene” or “Augusta”? I guess I'll just refer to you as “Mrs.” until I know for sure?
Um, I really can't say whether or not I am a firm believer in Jesus the Messiah yet. This is what I am trying to determine. I can have faith and just quite searching and call it good, but now I almost feel like I am too committed to do that. Does that make sense? I feel like I have been proving all things; I feel like I have been trying to be a good Berean; I feel like I would be abandoning my reason and logic if I just gave up and relied soley on faith alone…… I know that sounds bad. I just don't know how else to say it right now.
I believe in the Jesus presented in the NT. I believe he is the Messiah of the NT. I just don't see how the NT lines up with the OT. And if the OT is the Word of the Almighty God, and the NT is supposed to be a continuation of that Word…..well, I just don't see that it can be at this point.
Maybe God never wanted his words written down and put into a book? Maybe he just gave the 10 commandments on stone that are hidden somewhere and passed down through oral traditions? How do we know God wanted us to have a collection of information from the beginning? The collection sure seems flawed. And why is that? Is God's holy spirit not able to work through men and make the collection flawless? Too many questions that only seem to be answered by, “Have faith.”
Mandy in order to see what you are talking about please give me an example of scriptures. Not believing that Jesus is not the Messiah is a hard thing. You belief that He is of the N.T. but it does not line up with the O.T. In what way does it not line up, you have to give Scriptures to see what exactly you are saying. The 10 Commandments are written in Stone and you should not doubt that! It is not hidden somewhere, what are you saying? I do believe that God gave the 10 Commandments to Moses. We cant live without some kind of rule in our lives or you would have Anarchy.
My full name is Mrs. Irene Augusta and last name.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 13 2008,10:48) Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 12 2008,19:18) Quote (Heavens @ Feb. 12 2008,18:20) I just wondered how Chriztena is getting on?
You mean Chrissy or Mandy, or Amanda, or who?
Amanda is doing fine I think. O.K. Mandy your turn. I'm not sure who she means? But I'm assuming because the thread has a lot to do with my doubt that she is referring to me?
Love,
Mandy Chriztena started the thread and from her heartfelt post a great debate ensued and poor Chriztena and her plight seemed to vanish from the thread.
However, Mandy I'm sorry to learn that you haven't been to well.
My late father had several encounters with pneumonia in the last couple of years of his life, so I know what you are going through right now.
Here's wishing you a speedy recovery.
As for your other comments….
I'm still in a state of doubt. Not that God exists and that he is the Creator and lover of my soul, but all the other stuff.
Been there, done that!
When I became a Christian, in 2002, it felt like I came under attack. Negative things, relating to my new belief, seemed to come at me from all directions. It was a very unsettling time for me.
Then, during a discussion with someone, I was told I should stop defending God if I believed in Him, because He had survived all this time without my help!
It certainly made me think, and I eventually decided to study my Bible, read positive devotionals, listen to Bayless Conley and avoid debates with the devil's advocates….because you can't fight the devil unless you are protected by God's armour!
Ephesians 6:10-18
The Whole Armor of God
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.
Good stuff H,
Yes.
Some folks having doubts about scripture turn those doubts against God and start judging Him for all sorts of things.That is very unwise
Psalm 50:6
And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.
Job 1:22
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 13 2008,10:53) I just realized that CHRIZTENA is the one who started this thread! Heavens, I have no idea how she is getting along as she has been MIA since I have been here.
What a shame.
She may have simply come on here for a little moral support but got more than she bargained for.
Sometimes people just need to share – not debate, eh?
If you're out there, Chriztena, know that others are praying for you.
God bless!
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