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Hey SOL, read part of Gospel of Thomas. They did well to leave that book out of the GT. It reminded me of a hippie movie. Jesus must have done shrooms if you think that is the real Jesus
..Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 10 2008,20:35) But eternal torture seems to be OK. According to Rev. its a Pay-per-view event in heaven.
Speaking of hell…..If God knows all, why did he create a race of people that would end up disobeying him and being “cast into” this hell? Wouldn't that be cruel? And if he didn't know what these folks ultimate choice would be, that is, to serve him or not to serve him – then how can he be an all-knowing God? Hmmm
The questions don't get any easier, they just keep coming to me.
This isn't the doubt that the book of James refers to, Nick. This is the common sense that God has gifted my mind with. He created me to ask, “Why?”. But it is offensive to some Christians who think asking why translates to loss of faith and ultimate salvation. I believe the church has programed us this way………never question anything. But God encourages us to prove all things. Again with a contradiction, huh? It's amazing that anyone can find God. The Bible, and the church make it darn near impossible!
Mandy,
Its not just the church that “programs” us that way. Its ingrained in all Abrahamic faiths. Here is a prime example:
- Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.
If you ask me, that is much easier said then done. If our own understanding does not come into play, what then?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 11 2008,07:06) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 10 2008,20:35) But eternal torture seems to be OK. According to Rev. its a Pay-per-view event in heaven.
Speaking of hell…..If God knows all, why did he create a race of people that would end up disobeying him and being “cast into” this hell? Wouldn't that be cruel? And if he didn't know what these folks ultimate choice would be, that is, to serve him or not to serve him – then how can he be an all-knowing God? Hmmm
The questions don't get any easier, they just keep coming to me.
This isn't the doubt that the book of James refers to, Nick. This is the common sense that God has gifted my mind with. He created me to ask, “Why?”. But it is offensive to some Christians who think asking why translates to loss of faith and ultimate salvation. I believe the church has programed us this way………never question anything. But God encourages us to prove all things. Again with a contradiction, huh? It's amazing that anyone can find God. The Bible, and the church make it darn near impossible!
Hi N3,
Would you join those who would judge our God?
We all know Adam had been given a choice.
Should he not have been given one.
Should we all be robots?You almost hit the nail on the head Nick, but you didn't quite get there. Just like the basis of the story of Adam and Eve, we too are given choices and we aren't robots. So how can we sit back and truly believe that not being robots led to an eternal sin curse? IOW, why is the concept of “original sin” not mentioned again until the New Testament? Why so conspicuously absent from the OT?
Robots. Hmmm I guess if we were, we would all be assured of having the truth that we were supposed to have, wouldn't we? It would be programed right in. They way it is, we are left to follow bread crumbs and guess at where they lead. Because some bread crumbs go in different directions (you're following one path, and Isaiah is following another). Will they lead to the same place? I wonder.
Please don't think I am getting personal by using you and Isaiah as examples, I am not. I am merely trying to narrow down how we measure truth. How do we know when we have found the truth. What does truth look like? And why isn't it the same for those who supposedly are serving the same God? Or in the case of you and Isaiah – you are not even sure you are serving the same God. So much for the comfort of the Spirit that will lead us……
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,07:35) You almost hit the nail on the head Nick, but you didn't quite get there. Just like the basis of the story of Adam and Eve, we too are given choices and we aren't robots. So how can we sit back and truly believe that not being robots led to an eternal sin curse? IOW, why is the concept of “original sin” not mentioned again until the New Testament? Why so conspicuously absent from the OT?
Hi KJ,
If we always worried about the whys we would encourage doubts to fester.
I am glad God is God and His Word is truth.
Build on rock.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 10 2008,14:52) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 11 2008,07:35) You almost hit the nail on the head Nick, but you didn't quite get there. Just like the basis of the story of Adam and Eve, we too are given choices and we aren't robots. So how can we sit back and truly believe that not being robots led to an eternal sin curse? IOW, why is the concept of “original sin” not mentioned again until the New Testament? Why so conspicuously absent from the OT?
Hi KJ,
If we always worried about the whys we would encourage doubts to fester.
I am glad God is God and His Word is truth.
Build on rock.
Nick,You so soon forget
- Act 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
There are truth seekers who leave no rock un-turned in their search. And there are blind faith believers who leave all the rocks where they are and trust that they know what is under them, because of course, it is written.
I guess you could say I've had a dose of cynicism. But honestly, the old stand-by, “Just believe….” doesn't work with me anymore. I want to know why.
Hi KJ,
Then they believed.
They did not then have second thoughts.
So should you believe and continue to feed on the word of truth in faith.But can you say without a doubt that these Berean believers came to the same conclusions about things that you do?
Hi KJ,
Children do not need to know everything to believe.
They hear the gospel and their hearts respond
The seed is sown in good soil.
Understanding may follow.If we feed on the bread of life.
Yes, and children are so impressionable. That is why Jesus told you to be like them: ready to swallow stories and believe them just because someone said it was so.
Sure. I am a man just as he was. You expect more of him because other people did. Should I find some followers to write about me so you can believe in me too?
I raised 14 people from the dead. I stopped 3 volcanoes from erupting. I stopped a tornado by just wishing it would not happen. Now do you believe me?
Look above: it is written.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 11 2008,07:06) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 10 2008,20:35) But eternal torture seems to be OK. According to Rev. its a Pay-per-view event in heaven.
Speaking of hell…..If God knows all, why did he create a race of people that would end up disobeying him and being “cast into” this hell? Wouldn't that be cruel? And if he didn't know what these folks ultimate choice would be, that is, to serve him or not to serve him – then how can he be an all-knowing God? Hmmm
The questions don't get any easier, they just keep coming to me.
This isn't the doubt that the book of James refers to, Nick. This is the common sense that God has gifted my mind with. He created me to ask, “Why?”. But it is offensive to some Christians who think asking why translates to loss of faith and ultimate salvation. I believe the church has programed us this way………never question anything. But God encourages us to prove all things. Again with a contradiction, huh? It's amazing that anyone can find God. The Bible, and the church make it darn near impossible!
God must have known in advance he would have to drown everyone but Noah et al. The emotion of regret attributed to god really does not sit well with his supposed complete foresight.Stuart
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