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I began thinking more about the heart of God and how, just maybe, love was more important than truth. But as I got more into studying this out I found myself being pulled more towards truth being more important. But even further study I found myself being pulled in the direction of love being the main thing, then it hit me. Love without truth is not godly love and truth without love is not godly truth. The more truth we get, the more love we should have and the more love we have the more truth we will get. This is how God works. This is how God is able to reveal Himself to someone seeking Him and not only this, it's the only way He will reveal Himself to the one seeking Him because He reveals Himself so we can bare His image in our lives.
In all this, there is one thing that hinders all of what God can do in us and show to us and that is the flesh. Not just the desires of the physical body that can pull us away from holiness but also the fleshly thinking of self also known as the pride of life.
Ephesians 2:3 Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes (understanding), and the pride of life is not of the Father but is of the world.
These things truly have to be crucified in order for God to show us Himself. Jesus not only submitted His body to die on that cross but He also submitted His will to die on that same cross. This opened the way into the Holy of Holies, the presence of God. This too will happen to us when we crucify the flesh and all it's natural passions to glorify and satisfy self in how we understand this life.
When we seek after God to know Him I have found one very important verse that tells me He doesn't want just anyone knowing Him and it's found in Proverbs 25:2.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out.
We all know from the Scriptures that God is Spirit and we are carnal, this being true, we can't know God unless He reveals Himself to us and He will when we seek for Him with our whole heart.
Jeremiah 29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
Knowing that God hides His glory within the Scriptures tells me that the treasures of knowing God will not be plainly seen, even Jesus Himself spoke in parables so that those who did not truly, with their whole heart, what to know God, would not.
It's the same way today.
We can stop all the outward sins (drunkenness, adultery, stealing and so on) and become very moral people, but, our minds can still be lacking true submission to the Scriptures as a whole in revealing the glory of God, in other words, forget about all we learned about God through man and allow the Spirit of God to let us see the hidden glory of God in each and every word and statement throughout the Scriptures. Don't see a word or a statement and then right away interpret it from the traditions of man but rather keep looking, there is more to the statements than the statements themselves.
I want to look at the Jews for a minute.
When the Jews heard Jesus' words they became so quick to respond based on their pride of life. Outwardly they had the law down pat but they had yet to learn to truly listen with their spiritual ears and see with their spiritual eyes. Lets look at just one verse that I used in my day to support my belief of Jesus being God.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
This is one of the main verses that Trinitarians use to prove that Jesus and God are the same and equal.
Even the Jews believed Jesus was making Himself God bringing them to want to stone Him.
John 10:31-33 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
The Jews wanted to stone Jesus because they thought He was making Himself God in that He was making Himself equal to Him.
But now listen to Jesus carefully.
John 10:34-36 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
Jesus begins to show the Jews how even in the Scriptures of their day men are called gods so why do they want to stone Him because He says He's the Son of God.
There is a huge correction going on here. The Jews thought Jesus was making Himself equal with God and as a matter of fact, they had Jesus crucified because of it.
John 19:6-7 Therefore, when the chief priests and officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, “Crucify Him, crucify Him!'' Pilate said to them, “You take Him and crucify Him, for I find no fault in Him.'' The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God.''
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
The Jews misunderstood Jesus when He said that He was one with His Father. The Jews had their mind set on their law which caused them to be blinded to the meaning of Jesus' words in turn blinded them to Jesus' correction.
If this one verse, which was twisted by the Jews and misunderstood by the Jews, could cause such hatred and anger in the hearts of God's chosen people how much more can it cause us to misunderstand Jesus' words by interpreting them with man's law in our minds. Man's law is an expression of man's thoughts backed by rules and force.
Have we been given man's law regarding a co-eternal, co-equal trinity God? Does this law (doctrine) cause us not to hear the corrections of Jesus to where we reject Him as the Messiah sent by the one true God?
Listen to Apollos how he begins to correct the Jews. Keep in mind, the Jews believed Jesus was making Himself God and equal to Him.
Acts 18:28 He argued very convincingly in public against the Jews. Apollos clearly proved that they were wrong. He used the Scriptures to show that Jesus is the Messiah.
Notice how Apollos used the OT Scriptures to teach the truth about Jesus being the Messiah in contrast to being God or equal to Him. This I believe is where the mainline church as a whole has lost the Messiahship of Jesus. When we begin to look at the OT Scriptures as something thats not too important for the new covenant church then we begin to lose the true meaning of the Christ, the anointed one of God, the Messiah.
To see these things within the Scriptures we really have to let the whole counsel of God's word speak for itself. Our part in this is that we, in our love for God, are to keep ourselves pure so that we may enter into the Holy of Holies and to come to Him as a child knowing nothing but only trusting and seeking our Father for His guidance for spiritual maturity.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
We love God by loving others and keeping God's word.
1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 5:3 Loving God means doing what he tells us to do, and really, that isn't hard at all.
1 John 3:11-12 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wh
erefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.I found it very interesting how God brings us back to Cain and Able where the first murder took place during a worship service.
What God gives to us in our personal studies depends on how much we want to give ourselves to Him to know Him. Let us not murder one another in the process of growing more closer to Him because this is what He is watching for in our lives and He says it's not good.
Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits.
Remember, God is the one who calls and saves, He knows our hearts and our true desire to know Him. So let us just help one another in these matters and not kill one another for the sake of love and truth for this is not of God and neither should it be in us who are called His children.
Many blessings,
Hi k4c,
Thank you for the clear and simple exposition.We still must be born again. We must enter the fold of the sheep through the gate and not some other way. The problem is that we “cannot see the kingdom” unless we are born again so we could be sincerely casting about in the dark and, as with the Jews who Paul wept for in Romans 9 frustrating the purposes of God.
Everything then is from the Spirit, a Spirit that all in Christ should receive, not as an automatic happening but as Jesus said
“Ask and you will receive”
Lk 11.13
“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2005,02:55) Hi k4c,
Thank you for the clear and simple exposition.We still must be born again. We must enter the fold of the sheep through the gate and not some other way. The problem is that we “cannot see the kingdom” unless we are born again so we could be sincerely casting about in the dark and, as with the Jews who Paul wept for in Romans 9 frustrating the purposes of God.
Everything then is from the Spirit, a Spirit that all in Christ should receive, not as an automatic happening but as Jesus said
“Ask and you will receive”
Lk 11.13
“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
Very true…1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1 John 3:11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Without the anointing of God we won't love one another as God loves us.
1 John 4:20-21 If someone says, “I love God,'' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
The law of God is that we love.
The carnal mind will subject itself to God's law and neither can it.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
You must be born again to love as God calls us to love.
Romans 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
2 Thessalonians 3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
Who can understand all truth? Who knows all doctrines? We have the love of God poured without measure. It's in God's love that we can share in depth, length, height and breadth.
Eph. 3:16-21 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth Knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Many blessings…
Hi k4c,
Love is expressed in truth. Love without truth is not love.
Eph 4.15
“but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into him who is the head, even Christ”
Christ was blunt and crushing in his rebukes to the Pharisees, but that was love too-tough love.And it brought fruit as some of them became believers[Acts 15.5]Hi,
God is love.
I agree with the prayer of Jesus that we be one as he is one with his Father.
When we are one in truth then love will be the most natural expression of that unity.
Does any man hate his own body?Neither do those in the body of Christ hate each other.
The article in the OP is a blessing and just about wraps it all up: KNOW the true God and his Son; LOVE God and demonstrate your love to him by obeying his commands. And his command is that we love one another as he loves us and sent his only son to give himself for us. And of course Jesus loving his Father and obeying him, and loving us and giving himself for us and leaving us with that commandment. That's it, in a nutshell!
1 Corinthians 13
Really solid stuff k4c,
You wrote: “1 John 4:20-21 If someone says, “I love God,'' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.”
To add to this, our salvation is contingent upon loving our brothers:
“We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.” (1 John 3:14) Now that's pretty direct! Christ's new command is that we love one another and leave the judging to him.
It is interesting that the Pharisees especially, only counted you as a “brothers” if you followed the Law plus all their added rules. Jesus' story of the good Samaritan showed that our love must extend far beyond those who think and believe just like us.
I look at it this way. Even if one is in error as far as doctrine, Christ still died for them. That person may not have full understanding of the truth,( I don't either), but the Bible says that, “Learning and teaching will continue until we ALL attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God..” Ephesians 4:13 If they claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, should we become a “skandelon” or stumbling block of offense?
What this is saying to me is that the Body of Christ is not there yet. Why should we then “murder” our brothers when we are all on the road to unity?
I also know BECAUSE I love my brothers, I will not hold back from speaking the truth. Paul did not withhold anything profitable for the upbuilding of the Body of Christ. Those who refused to listen would bear the consequences of their own choices, (i.e. handed over to Satan.) However love will cause us to keep trying and ask God to reach hearts when we can not.
Bless you for that,
Semmy
Hi S,
All are not saved.
All will not be saved.
That is the heresy of universalism.
Neither are all brothers except those who are sons of God through their being reborn into the Son.
We must not confuse neighbours with brothers as Jesus did not do so.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2006,06:08) Hi S,
All are not saved.
All will not be saved.
That is the heresy of universalism.
Neither are all brothers except those who are sons of God through their being reborn into the Son.
We must not confuse neighbours with brothers as Jesus did not do so.
Hey Nick,I agree, absolutely with what you have said. However, as I can not read someone's heart, I will decline to offer an opinion as to who is saved and who is not. Think about it. What if I'm wrong and the person IS saved? There's that image of a millstone necklace looming above my head.
If you read Jesus' parable about the wheat and the tares, he says not to remove the tares lest some of the wheat should also be disturbed. In removing the weeds, you may inadvertantly pull up some of the good wheat. In taking matters into your own hands, you risk destroying the faith of those who DO belong to Christ. So the tares or false Christians will be disposed of at the end of the harvest by the rightful Lord of that field, Christ Jesus.
So my questions to you are: Where is the discernable, absolute proof that someone is or is not a son of God and reborn into the Son? What if you are wrong?
Bless you,
Semmy
Hi S,
Are you not born of the Spirit?
Can you not listen to what is coming from the heart?
Can you not know the sound of the Shepherd's voice?
Can you not discern things of good and evil?If not then please seek the Spirit as the Father wants all His children so blessed.
We need to recognise the work of the Whore of Babylon and come out of her.
We need to abhor all her ways.God is not religious but such is the ways of futile minded men.
Denominations are their handiwork and not His.God knows those who are His.
We walk by faith and not by sight.
We do not walk by confusion or fear of failure.
We are not limited by physical eyes and ears and hearts.The Spirit will show you all these things and much more.
Hi Nick,
Uh, well then how do WE know that OUR heart is right in all matters of spirtual discernment? Paul said:
“My conscience is clear but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.”
(1 Corinthinas 4:4)Notice it is the Lord who judges us, not we ourselves. So if we can not even be certain of
our own innocence before God, how are we supposed to evaluate someone elses? A clear
conscience, claiming to hear the Lord's voice, etc. is no gaurantee of our own holiness as 1
Corinthians 4:4 clearly lays out.Yes, I believe we are to be watchful but nowhere does the Bible say we are to become spritual voyers of those claiming Christ as Lord. When Peter anxiously asked our Savior regarding the apostle John, “Lord, and what of this one?” Jesus responded, “If I will him to remain until I come, what is it to you? BE YOU following me.” (YLT)
I can't get overly concerned about someone else's walk with the Lord without seriously neglecting my own. Jesus words to Peter are the same as to us: “Be you following me.” So again I ask, given that our powers of discernment are not absolute and even a clear conscience amounts to nothing: How do you know if someone is or is not saved or belonging to the Lord? What happens if you are wrong? I appreciate your thoughts, Nick, but I need more scriptural backing that what you've provided.
Semmy
Hi S,
It is not of human understanding but spiritual. It is not a matter of human judgement or personal holiness but of a gift of an inner teacher who reveals these things.[1Jn 2.27]Paul did not hesitate to ask if those in Acts 19 had been properly established in the Lord and when he found they were not he helped them do so. If none ask then the gospel is not preached.
Conscience being clear is not a guarantee of salvation. A conscience has to be judged by God as pure as all men think they are righteous in their own eyes but scripture says all have sinned.
If we all minded our own spiritual business then how is the truth to be spread as light in the world? None would reach out to others to rescue them if we were all just to keep our own counsel.
Peter was asking about John. Both were saved so the situation is different.
“There is a way that seems right in the minds of men but it ends in death”
All men are lost and subject to the wrath of God[Jn 3] unless they find salvation in Jesus or the expressed mercy of God shown in Matt 25.
You cannot have love and lies. What kind of love would that be? It wouldn't be love at all. Sometimes we hurt those we love. Our Father chastises us out of Love. You don't agree with someone because you love them you agree with them if they are right and when wrong you disagree because of Love.
If I saw one going the way that would lead off a cliff I will say you are going the wrong way. If the person says no I'm not I will tell them again and again until they stop or they eventually go off the cliff theirs is the choice. If I don't care I might casually mention you will go off a cliff once or twice then forget about it. Why should I bother.
If one loves then truth is automatic. Why would you lie to one you love?
I agree in principle with a lot of what is being said, what I think is key is that we keep a balance. For every verse and example that can be found showing that we should warn others you can also find another that says something like this – 'Leave them alone – if the blind lead the blind they all fall in the ditch.'
To me this suggests that if one is willing to listen to lies and shows no interest in the truth – leave them alone – do not feed your pearls to the swine. But what does fallen in the ditch mean?
If it means to be found in a desperate state or condition in this life then another verse swings into play – if your brother falls into a ditch you do not push him down further but you offer to help him out.
If he refuses that help? Well personally I would not keep on at them – however if they were to then ask my help – I would help. How many times would I do this? for how many iterations? seven? seventy times seven? – who's counting….The scripture tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
Yet we are not called to be silent witnesses and cannot use such a verse to support this kind of attitude.
The person that is lost is not able to work out their own salvation at all.
The one who claims to be saved and knows not (because of a religious deception) of their condition is in my opinion a much sorrier case. For the first will not be disappointed as much as the second in the judgement – not expecting anything but punishment.So my point is that Jesus rebuked the religious of his day, but then left it at that. He was always ready to answer their challenges, yet at the same time, having once offered them salvation he went on to seek and save the lost. Not those who felt they were alright. Of them he said – leave them be, they are blind leaders of the blind.
Obviously we have to be discerning and walking humbly before our God, ready to first judge ourselves, always ready to give an answer to those who ask. Always looking for the one who is lost, and more than anything constantly waiting on the Spirit to guide us in each situation, so that we can be as wise as serpants yet as harmless as doves.
JMTCW
Having read some of the previous pages re: love and truth – I felt to add MTCW…
Paul in one of the letters to the Phillipians cites the principle cause for why many recieve a strong delusion to beleive the Devil's lie as follows – because they did not receive the LOVE OF THE TRUTH in order that they might be saved.
He also commended the church in one of his letters that when hearing the words of Paul – did not receive them as the words of a man but as IN TRUTH they were – the WORD OF GOD which was effectively working in them.
In the gospel of John we are told that both Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.
And in another place that they who worship God must do so in Spirit and Truth.
What spirit? God is a spirit – and God is Love – God's Spirit therefore in my books is the Spirit of Love as well as the Spirit of Truth. And in fact, I beleive the two are inseparable.
Grace is the means whereby we are saved through faith, and in the book of Ephesians Paul tells us that – in love God predestinated us unto the adoption of sons.I beleive that love and truth are two edges of the one sword, which cuts to the joints and marrow, discerning our very hearts and intent. so anything that would call itself Love or masquerade as such or for that matter as truth also, must first satisfy the scrutiny of God's word.
Wherein we find it is patient, kind, never rude, not putting on airs, not self-seeking… and at the same time is corrective, rebukes and chastens and in all cases always seeks our wellbeing and to protect and nurture us as a kind and loving parent does.So that's JMTCW
Dear k4c,
Wonderful post. Thank you for sharing it. It sums it all up. Truth and God cannot be seperated. For there is no truth outside of God.
That is why so many are led astray today. For they compromise the truth. They compromise the Word of God. There is no compromise. Yet, what man is not guilty of compromise. Thank you Father for sending your Son, our salvation.
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