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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 03 2007,17:58) David You say…
Quote
Major premise: “No one has ever seen God”–1 John 4:12
Minor premise: People have seen Jesus
Conclusion: Jesus is not the same one referred to in the major premise.This seems like pretty clear solid thinking to me.
Of course Yeshua is not the Father!
What do you think about this…
Jn 14:7
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.Since Jesus is the “Image of God” he says if you have seen me than you have seen God. So what makes you think that when the patriots of old said they had seen God that they were lieing. We know and believe they had seen God for they seen Yeshua.
Jesus said…
Jn 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.Now if no one has seen the Father but Yeshua, then when did he see him? If he is just a man then he could not have seen him for no man shall see him and live.
Therfore it seems pretty clear and solid thinkng to me that Yeshua is the “Word” that was with God and was God!
wj1Jn 5:17 Every wrong thing we do is sin. But there are sins that do not lead to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that those who are children of -God- do not keep on sinning. The- Son of God- keeps them safe. The evil one can’t harm them.
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are children of- God-. We know that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
1Jn 5:20 We also know that the- Son of God- has come. He has given us understanding. Now we can know the One who is true. And we belong to the One who is true.– We also belong to his Son, Jesus Christ–. He is the true God. He is eternal life.
1Jn 5:21 Dear children, keep away from statues of godsso HE IS THE TRUE GOD=to the father not Christ
look what Job says;Job 13:1 “My eyes have seen everything God has done.
and now;Job 42:5 My ears had heard about you.
But now my own eyes have seen you.this is scriptural.if you understand it
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 10 2010,05:23) Then Moses and the Patriarchs were liars! The only way to reconcile the scriptures on this is that no man can see the “unappoachable light” that he dwells in.
Or did you over look that in 1 Tim 6:15, and 16.
Paul is talking about the “unapproachable light” that man cannot see, or God in all of his Glory or he would die!
But obviously God can reveal himself to man without all of his Glory and light.
Moses saw the backside of God because God covered his face from seeing all of his Glory!
Moses says he talked to God face to face as to a man, but t8 says Moses is a liar!
WJ
WJ, is another person who denies the New Testament's clear teaching that no man can see God and has ever seen him. He must be confused because his belief is a clear contradiction to at least six scriptures.I do not have a contradiction because I know that you can see the invisible God through his image and through other vessels. His glory is reflected through visible things, so that we can see him. Even creation shows us God so that we have no excuse about his existence. Through Yeshua the image of the invisible God, we can see the fullness of God in bodily form. In other words the invisible God through the visible Christ.
Moses saw the Angel of the Lord if you care to read it. Yes that is considered as seeing God because that is the the way you can see the invisible God by seeing his glory.
Another perfect demonstration as to how the Trinity Doctrine causes confusion to the point where its adherents will even ignore contradictory scripture.
We should never ignore or go against scripture, ever.
- No one has ever seen God; ….
- Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
- No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
- No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
- And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form.
- which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
Pretty clear isn't it. NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD, but Trinitarians by reason of their captive minds to the Trinity have no choice but to disagree with the above scriptures or admit that their doctrine doesn't add up.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Amen.
Quote (t8 @ April 09 2010,19:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 10 2010,05:23) Then Moses and the Patriarchs were liars! The only way to reconcile the scriptures on this is that no man can see the “unappoachable light” that he dwells in.
Or did you over look that in 1 Tim 6:15, and 16.
Paul is talking about the “unapproachable light” that man cannot see, or God in all of his Glory or he would die!
But obviously God can reveal himself to man without all of his Glory and light.
Moses saw the backside of God because God covered his face from seeing all of his Glory!
Moses says he talked to God face to face as to a man, but t8 says Moses is a liar!
WJ
WJ, is another person who denies the New Testament's clear teaching that no man can see God and has ever seen him. He must be confused because his belief is a clear contradiction to at least six scriptures.I do not have a contradiction because I know that you can see the invisible God through his image and through other vessels. His glory is reflected through visible things, so that we can see him. Even creation shows us God so that we have no excuse about his existence. Through Yeshua the image of the invisible God, we can see the fullness of God in bodily form. In other words the invisible God through the visible Christ.
Moses saw the Angel of the Lord if you care to read it. Yes that is considered as seeing God because that is the the way you can see the invisible God by seeing his glory.
Another perfect demonstration as to how the Trinity Doctrine causes confusion to the point where its adherents will even ignore contradictory scripture.
We should never ignore or go against scripture, ever.
- No one has ever seen God; ….
- Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
- No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
- No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
- And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form.
- which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
Pretty clear isn't it. NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD, but Trinitarians by reason of their captive minds to the Trinity have no choice but to disagree with the above scriptures or admit that their doctrine doesn't add up.
t8Straw man. For Jesus is the “Word that was with God and was God” who has made God known.
Jesus is the “image of the invisible God”, in other words he is God made visible.
What part of Jesus words do you not understand?
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God)“. John 14:17
So was Moses, Abraham, Isaac, John and Jesus liars?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2010,08:08) Hi WJ,
God was in him.
He explained this in Jn14.
Nick,The Father was in Jesus and Jesus was in the Father. This necessitates the idea of interdependency.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 22 2010,07:07) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God)”. John 14:17
Like I said, you disagree that God is invisible and that no one can see him. Whereas I believe that, and understand that while you can't actually see and invisible and eternal God, you can see him through his son and through others as well.In the end all that we see is an image in our mind. So we can see God in other ways. But we can't see God as he is.
But you disagree strongly with scripture, that is clear. You justify this by quoting other scriptures that appear to say that you can see God and are therefore contradictory.
But scripture is not contradictory WJ. That conclusion must be drawn from your view. You have no other choice but to deny all the scriptures that say that God is invisible and no one can see him and has ever seen him.
You are certainly and clearly confused in this matter .
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ April 22 2010,09:04) The Father was in Jesus and Jesus was in the Father. This necessitates the idea of interdependency.
Yet Jesus prayed that we would be one with God, himself, and each other. Yet who says that God is dependent on us?You are jumping to conclusions KJ. We are all dependent on God. Even Jesus is dependent on God.
Jesus said, “why call me good, no one is good except God”.
Quote (t8 @ July 28 2010,06:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 22 2010,07:07) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God)”. John 14:17
Like I said, you disagree that God is invisible and that no one can see him. Whereas I believe that, and understand that while you can't actually see and invisible and eternal God, you can see him through his son and through others as well.In the end all that we see is an image in our mind. So we can see God in other ways. But we can't see God as he is.
But you disagree strongly with scripture, that is clear. You justify this by quoting other scriptures that appear to say that you can see God and are therefore contradictory.
But scripture is not contradictory WJ. That conclusion must be drawn from your view. You have no other choice but to deny all the scriptures that say that God is invisible and no one can see him and has ever seen him.
You are certainly and clearly confused in this matter .
Hello t8,Could it be that there are TWO aspects to the ONE God?
One being spirit? Holy Spirit. Invisible.
The other being physically present? YHVH. Visible.When you talk about one it doesn't negate the other. So, it is important to identify what constitutes God.
Adam and Eve hid from the LORD God (YHVH Elohim), Cain and Abel sacrificed to Him.
King David didn't want God to take away His Holy Spirit.
David! Is it correct to say that you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? If so I disagree with you. look up Holy Spirit and you will see that it is the Spirit of God the Father. Also the trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God…. It was Quintus Septimius Florence Tertullian, who in the third century after a brutal and bloody three century, Constantine put stop to all persecution and allowed all Christians to worship their religion…. It is said that the trinity is the best achievement that Tertullian made to Christianty. However is it right? That is debatable. There are several Scriptures that also show us that God is above all Ephesians 4:6 and in John 14:28 by Jesus own words He said that His Father is greater then He is….Also in
Deut. 4:35″Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightiest know that the LORD He is God, there is none beside Him.”Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD.”
Notice that LORD here is in capital letters. You will find that in the Old Testament and it is always the LORD Jehovah God. While Lord is Jesus Christ.1 Corinth. 8:4 “And that there is none other God but ONE.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (davidbfun @ July 28 2010,00:47) Quote (t8 @ July 28 2010,06:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 22 2010,07:07) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God)”. John 14:17
Like I said, you disagree that God is invisible and that no one can see him. Whereas I believe that, and understand that while you can't actually see and invisible and eternal God, you can see him through his son and through others as well.In the end all that we see is an image in our mind. So we can see God in other ways. But we can't see God as he is.
But you disagree strongly with scripture, that is clear. You justify this by quoting other scriptures that appear to say that you can see God and are therefore contradictory.
But scripture is not contradictory WJ. That conclusion must be drawn from your view. You have no other choice but to deny all the scriptures that say that God is invisible and no one can see him and has ever seen him.
You are certainly and clearly confused in this matter .
Hello t8,Could it be that there are TWO aspects to the ONE God?
One being spirit? Holy Spirit. Invisible.
The other being physically present? YHVH. Visible.When you talk about one it doesn't negate the other. So, it is important to identify what constitutes God.
Adam and Eve hid from the LORD God (YHVH Elohim), Cain and Abel sacrificed to Him.
King David didn't want God to take away His Holy Spirit.
God has never walked this earth, only was present in Paradise with Adam and Eve. Since then He has not. It is alwasys Jesus who is also called God in Hebrew 8 and John !:1. God is the invisible while Jesus is the visible. You can read that in Col 1:15-18. He was with His Father before the world was. John 6:38-40, John 1:1, 3:17, 17:5, Rev. 19:13and verse 16.
The trinity is a manmade doctrine and not of God, explained in my previous post.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Arnold @ July 28 2010,02:17) Quote (davidbfun @ July 28 2010,00:47) Quote (t8 @ July 28 2010,06:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 22 2010,07:07) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and “from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God)”. John 14:17
Like I said, you disagree that God is invisible and that no one can see him. Whereas I believe that, and understand that while you can't actually see and invisible and eternal God, you can see him through his son and through others as well.In the end all that we see is an image in our mind. So we can see God in other ways. But we can't see God as he is.
But you disagree strongly with scripture, that is clear. You justify this by quoting other scriptures that appear to say that you can see God and are therefore contradictory.
But scripture is not contradictory WJ. That conclusion must be drawn from your view. You have no other choice but to deny all the scriptures that say that God is invisible and no one can see him and has ever seen him.
You are certainly and clearly confused in this matter .
Hello t8,Could it be that there are TWO aspects to the ONE God?
One being spirit? Holy Spirit. Invisible.
The other being physically present? YHVH. Visible.When you talk about one it doesn't negate the other. So, it is important to identify what constitutes God.
Adam and Eve hid from the LORD God (YHVH Elohim), Cain and Abel sacrificed to Him.
King David didn't want God to take away His Holy Spirit.
God has never walked this earth, only was present in Paradise with Adam and Eve. Since then He has not. It is alwasys Jesus who is also called God in Hebrew 8 and John !:1. God is the invisible while Jesus is the visible. You can read that in Col 1:15-18. He was with His Father before the world was. John 6:38-40, John 1:1, 3:17, 17:5, Rev. 19:13and verse 16.
The trinity is a manmade doctrine and not of God, explained in my previous post.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,You deny the scriptures. Jacob wrestled with a man whom he called “God.” Jacob called the place where he wrestled “Peniel” because “I have seen God face to face” (Gen. 33).
It surely is arrogant on your part to say that God “never” walked the earth seeing that you weren't there yourself. I know you are elderly but you cannot be that elderly.
the Roo
God is not a man Roo. We can see God in the face of Christ and in other ways, but God is not a man. He is Spirit.
Quote (davidbfun @ July 28 2010,00:47) Could it be that there are TWO aspects to the ONE God?
One being spirit? Holy Spirit. Invisible.
The other being physically present? YHVH. Visible.
Hi db.Thanks for your input and question.
I believe that when it says that God is invisible, then it means that. If he is visible, then he is not invisible because being visible cancels out being invisible.
However, this is who Christ is. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Notice that it says he is the image. And we know that the image is not the source in the same way that the woman is the image of the man because she came from man, so it is that Jesus came from God.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
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