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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi w,
So did he become the God he WAS WITH?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,11:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi w,
So did he become the God he WAS WITH?
NHLOL
Thats it resort to modalism.
Carnal logic dosnt cut it NH!
You should just believe the scriptures!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,11:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi w,
So did he become the God he WAS WITH?
NHHe didnt become God he already was God with the Father!
Hi W,
Our God and his God, is the Father, according to Jesus
So “God with the Father” is not our God.
He is our Lord.
Jesus.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi WJ:Actually the scripture states:
5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
5:19
To wit, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.God Bless
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,11:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi w,
So did he become the God he WAS WITH?
NHHe didnt become God he already was God with the Father!
Hi w,
So those are the two deities you often speak of but how do you draw the line as far as polytheism goes?Quote (942767 @ April 27 2007,11:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi WJ:Actually the scripture states:
5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;5:19
To wit, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.God Bless
94Yes.
True. And those scriptures are in harmony with my statement
The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, they share the same oneness as God.
Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (he, same thing according to John) *was manifest* in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.2 Cor 5:19
To wit, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.God was in Messiah, the Word was made flesh, God was manifest in the flesh.
Whats the difference?
Unless you mean that because the Father was in him reconciling the world unto himself, then Jesus couldnt be God.
HMM? Then would that also mean that if Messiah is in the Father that the Father couldnt be God?
You see 94, there is a huge road block to God the Father.
And you cant get to him without the Word/God.
I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, (God) but by me.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about who we are being reconciled to.
Not to mention Jesus being the husband of the bride.
Yeshua said…
Jn 6:44
No man can *come to me*, except the Father which hath sent me *draw him*: and I will raise him up at the last day.God the Father is drawing men to Yeshua, and yet men are trying to go to the Father.
Jn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men *unto me*.Jesus is drawing also men unto himself. (theres one of those statements of Deity).
Who is the beloved? Is it God?
Song of Solomon 1:
3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, *therefore do the virgins love thee*.
4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.Who is this beloved, this beautiful King, whos love is more than wine?
Who is this glorious one that the “virgins” run after and he takes them into his chambers.
Paul the Apostle was jealous over the church.
2 Cor 11:2
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, *that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ*.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that *cometh preacheth another Jesus*, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.Many go after God by sidestepping the Son, not realizing that it is all in the Son.
That he is our Love, our beloved, our prize.
Listen to Paul.
Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and *I count all things but loss* for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:Can you hear Paul’s heart beat for Christ Jesus his Lord.
Would God the Father require this kind of devotion to any other being than God himself.
Not if you believe the Hebrew scriptures that says…
Deut 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,There is none even like him. Yet we know Jesus is the Exact representation of his substance.
Jesus said…
Matt 6:24
No man can *serve two masters*: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.Yet there are those running around calling Jesus Lord and Master and claiming to know the Father, and unfortunately they don’t even know the Son nor have a relationship with him.
If I was to say who is our ultimate prize? Many would say God.
You are right. And yet Jesus is our prize.
You cant have the Father apart from the Son.
So if you have Yeshua you have God, because he who has the Son has the Father also.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2007,12:50) 94 Yes.
True. And those scriptures are in harmony with my statement
The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, they share the same oneness as God.
And we can be one with each other and with the Father and the son. That is written.So where does that leave your statement if you are correct?
Certainly not a Trinity, more like a millionity or perhaps a billionity? So your teaching taken to it's logical conclusion argues against the very false teaching you are trying to preserve.
The Trinity doctrine is a lie, no matter what you dress it up as. Then trying to justify it only gets you in deeper.
Quote (t8 @ May 05 2007,15:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2007,12:50) 94 Yes.
True. And those scriptures are in harmony with my statement
The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, they share the same oneness as God.
And we can be one with each other and with the Father and the son. That is written.So where does that leave your statement if you are correct?
Certainly not a Trinity, more like a millionity or perhaps a billionity? So your teaching taken to it's logical conclusion argues against the very false teaching you are trying to preserve.
The Trinity doctrine is a lie, no matter what you dress it up as. Then trying to justify it only gets you in deeper.
t8You seem to think that an infinite God can be fully understood by a logical finite mind, or should I say carnal, earthly mind?
The Only lies I see is the Henotheist view which denys that to have the Son is to have the Father—-God!!
Quote (t8 @ May 05 2007,15:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2007,12:50) 94 Yes.
True. And those scriptures are in harmony with my statement
The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, they share the same oneness as God.
And we can be one with each other and with the Father and the son. That is written.So where does that leave your statement if you are correct?
Certainly not a Trinity, more like a millionity or perhaps a billionity? So your teaching taken to it's logical conclusion argues against the very false teaching you are trying to preserve.
The Trinity doctrine is a lie, no matter what you dress it up as. Then trying to justify it only gets you in deeper.
t8And you can be One flesh with your wife, so I guess that means that all of humanity is one flesh with your wife!!!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,17:50) Quote (942767 @ April 27 2007,11:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,11:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,10:43) Hi W,
He was God.
What happened next?
NHHe was “tabenacled” among us!
“Emmanuel” God with us.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself!
He si the Lord from heaven.
Hi WJ:Actually the scripture states:
5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;5:19
To wit, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.God Bless
94Yes.
True. And those scriptures are in harmony with my statement
The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, they share the same oneness as God.
Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (he, same thing according to John) *was manifest* in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.2 Cor 5:19
To wit, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.God was in Messiah, the Word was made flesh, God was manifest in the flesh.
Whats the difference?
Unless you mean that because the Father was in him reconciling the world unto himself, then Jesus couldnt be God.
HMM? Then would that also mean that if Messiah is in the Father that the Father couldnt be God?
You see 94, there is a huge road block to God the Father.
And you cant get to him without the Word/God.
I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, (God) but by me.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about who we are being reconciled to.
Not to mention Jesus being the husband of the bride.
Yeshua said…
Jn 6:44
No man can *come to me*, except the Father which hath sent me *draw him*: and I will raise him up at the last day.God the Father is drawing men to Yeshua, and yet men are trying to go to the Father.
Jn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men *unto me*.Jesus is drawing also men unto himself. (theres one of those statements of Deity).
Who is the beloved? Is it God?
Song of Solomon 1:
3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, *therefore do the virgins love thee*.
4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.Who is this beloved, this beautiful King, whos love is more than wine?
Who is this glorious one that the “virgins” run after and he takes them into his chambers.
Paul the Apostle was jealous over the church.
2 Cor 11:2
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, *that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ*.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that *cometh preacheth another Jesus*, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.Many go after God by sidestepping the Son, not realizing that it is all in the Son.
That he is our Love, our beloved, our prize.
Listen to Paul.
Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and *I count all things but loss* for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:Can you hear Paul’s heart beat for Christ Jesus his Lord.
Would God the Father require this kind of devotion to any other being than God himself.
Not if you believe the Hebrew scriptures that says…
Deut 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,There is none even like him. Yet we know Jesus is the Exact representation of his substance.
Jesus said…
Matt 6:24
No man can *serve two masters*: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.Yet there are those running around calling Jesus Lord and Master and claiming to know the Father, and unfortunately they don’t even know the Son nor have a relationship with him.
If I was to say who is our ultimate prize? Many would say God.
You are right. And yet Jesus is our prize.
You cant have the Father apart from the Son.
So if you have Yeshua you have God, because he who has the Son has the Father also.
God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself.
Hi WJ:You say:
Unless you mean that because the Father was in him reconciling the world unto himself, then Jesus couldnt be God.
HMM? Then would that also mean that if Messiah is in the Father that the Father couldnt be God?
The Messiah is in the Father because He is the Word of God that proceeds from the Father, and yes, I mean that Jesus cannot be God in the sense that you indicate if God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, and the Father is in us by his Spirit as our helper, and Jesus is in us, the Word of God, and so we also are in him and in the Father. It is one spirit, but Jesus is not the same person as the Father and neither are we the same person as Jesus. We should be manifesting the same personality that Jes
us manifested through his life which is the spirit of love. God is a Spirit of Love. (John 4:24, 1 John 4:8)You quote:
Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Obviously, if He is the Only begotten Son of God, He cannot be God in the sense that you indicate. The prophetic Word of God relative to the birth of His Son became a reality, and he lived on earth obeying God and His Father even unto death on the cross.
And you quote:
Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (he, same thing according to John) *was manifest* in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.[/This verse of scripture states “great is the mystery of godliness” which Jesus displayed through his life of obedience to God's Word. Some translations read different, but here it says, “God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit”. God does not have to be justified, and God is a Spirit”.
You say:
You see 94, there is a huge road block to God the Father.
And you cant get to him without the Word/God.
I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, (God) but by me.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about who we are being reconciled to.
There is no confusion here for me our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus and because of this God is now the Father of our spirit. He said “no man comes to the Father but by me”. We as subjected to God through him (the Word of God) as 1 Co. 11:3 states. We have been reconciled unto the Father. When we obey Jesus we are obeying the Word of God that came to humanity through Jesus, therefore we are obeying God.
Further more you say:
Yeshua said…
Jn 6:44
No man can *come to me*, except the Father which hath sent me *draw him*: and I will raise him up at the last day.God the Father is drawing men to Yeshua, and yet men are trying to go to the Father.
Jn 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men *unto me*.Jesus is drawing also men unto himself. (theres one of those statements of Deity).
When we come to God we come with a repentant heart confessing Jesus as our Lord which means that we are subjected to God through him (the Word of God), and if the Father sent him them obviously He is not God as you indicate. Also, it was the Father who rasied him from the dead and who also raises us from the dead by His Spirit.
You say:
God the Father is drawing men to Yeshua, and yet men are trying to go to the Father.
We are Jesus disciples. God has exalted him to the position of head of the Chruch, and so we like he was are sent into the world with the gospel message to reconcile sinners unto God.
John 17:14
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
17:16
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.You say:
Many go after God by sidestepping the Son, not realizing that it is all in the Son.
That definitely is not true in my case. We have already discussed that no one can come to the Father but by him. I love him and strive to obey him out of my love for him, but he is not God in the sense that you make him. He is God in that he is the “express image of God's person” as Hebrews 1:3 indicates.
These are his Words:
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.And in conclusion:
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.God Bless
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 06 2007,11:40) t8 You seem to think that an infinite God can be fully understood by a logical finite mind, or should I say carnal, earthly mind?
I'm not the one promoting a doctrine that is not taught in scripture and developed hundreds of years after the last book in the bible was written.I rely on scripture and admit I do not understand it all.
You rely on creeds and twist some scripture to make it fit.
So who is the one trying to understand an infinite God with finite ideals?
Remove the plank in your eye WorshippingJesus and perhaps then you wouldn't say things that really point to yourself.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 06 2007,11:43)
t8And you can be One flesh with your wife, so I guess that means that all of humanity is one flesh with your wife!!!
Honestly WorshippingJesus shame on you.What a silly thing to say.
It is scripture that teaches that we can be one with each other and with the Father and son. It is obvious that it is talking about one in spirit.
You then go on about my wife and God knows how you made that connection. One in spirit is not one in flesh. Although perhaps you say such a silly thing because you believe that God and Jesus are one in substance and then somehow correlate that with the oneness of a husband and wife. Like I said God knows.
Anyway it just reinforces to me that you have no idea what 'one' really means regarding being one with God and the oneness that the Father and son have. It is another proof of your lack of understanding in such matters.
You should pray to God for wisdom.
Quote (t8 @ May 05 2007,22:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 06 2007,11:43)
t8And you can be One flesh with your wife, so I guess that means that all of humanity is one flesh with your wife!!!
Honestly WorshippingJesus shame on you.What a silly thing to say.
It is scripture that teaches that we can be one with each other and with the Father and son. It is obvious that it is talking about one in spirit.
You then go on about my wife and God knows how you made that connection. One in spirit is not one in flesh. Although perhaps you say such a silly thing because you believe that God and Jesus are one in substance and then somehow correlate that with the oneness of a husband and wife. Like I said God knows.
Anyway it just reinforces to me that you have no idea what 'one' really means regarding being one with God and the oneness that the Father and son have. It is another proof of your lack of understanding in such matters.
You should pray to God for wisdom.
t8No my point is not silly. The Oneness that we have with Jesus is not the same oneness that he shares with the Father and you know it.
Or else we would be dwelling in each other.
And the Spirit would be proceeding from our being as it proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Also we would be “The Spirit” which the Lord “Yeshau” is.
And we could drink each others Spirit.
Jesus is one being, one Spirit with the Father and we are united in them by the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, one Spirit. We are not united by our own Spirit.
Since you claim to have such oneness with the Father t8, you should be saying like Yeshua…
Jn 7:37
In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, *If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink*.Jn 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water *that I shall give him shall never thirst*; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.Or maybe you also should make this claim since you make your unity with the Father the same as Jesus…
Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he (the Father) shall take of mine*, and shall shew it unto you.And I suppose that men should worship you as well, since you share the same oneness that Yeshua shares with the Father.
So as you can see t8, it is not I that gets the Oneness of the Father and the Son and the Spirit mixed up with the oneness we share in unity with them.
It is you that shows the falacy of your carnal, fleshly, human logic, which is puffed up without the Spirit.
Each time you expound on your human logic to bring down the Son to your image, it only shows that you have no revelation of the truth but deny the very truth and the Lord God our Saviour.
You posted on one thread concerning early church Fathers and how they denied the Trinitarian view. Which none of the Fathers wrote anything that even remotely said “The Trinity is False.
But you failed to mention those writings that show they supported the Trinitarian view and actually condemn those who didnt hold to the view.
Heres what Ignatius the desciple of the Beloved John also wrote…
For “there is also,” saith, *one Spirit since* “we have been called in one hope of our calling.” And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,” with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.” *There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.* Wherefore also the Lord, when He sent forth the apostles to make disciples of all nations, *commanded them to “baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit* not unto one having three names, nor into three who became incarnate, *but into three [persons]* possessed of equal honour [one name].
and
For some are in the habit of *carrying about the name [of Jesus Christ] in wicked guile*, while yet they practise things unworthy of God, whom ye must flee as ye would wild beasts. For they are ravening dogs, who bite secretly, against whom ye must be on your guard, inasmuch as they are men who can scarcely be cured. There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; *God existing in flesh*; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible, *even Jesus Christ our Lord*.
(To the Philippians, II).And
*Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ*, the Son of the living God, first did and then taught, as Luke testifies, “whose praise is in the Gospel through all the Churches. 2 Cor. viii. 18. There is nothing which is hid from the Lord, but our very secrets are near to Him. Let us therefore do all things as those who have Him dwelling in us, that we may be His temples, 1 Cor. vi. 19. and He may be in us as God. Let Christ speak in us, even as He did in Paul. Let the Holy Spirit teach us to speak the things of Christ in like manner as He did.
As you can see here the Trinitarian view existed long before Constantine which you and many claim the Church fabricated centurys later which is a lie!!!
Yeshua truly is the “Lord” from heaven and has a oneness with the Father and the Spirit which you apparently know nothing about or even deny.
One Spirit, Three Persons, One God.
Hi W,
wikipedia says this about the writings of Ignatius.The seven authentic letters are:
To the Ephesians
To the Magnesians
To the Trallians
To the Romans
To the Philadephians
To the Smyrnaeans
To Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna
By the 5th century, this authentic collection had been enlarged by spurious letters, and the original letters had been changed with interpolations, created to posthumously enlist Ignatius as an unwitting witness in theological disputes of that age, while the purported eye-witness account of his martyrdom is also thought to be a forgery from around the same time.So what of his fruit? Where are the miracles and gifts of the Spirit spoken of in him?
Perhaps he needs a thread.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2007,10:31) Hi W,
wikipedia says this about the writings of Ignatius.The seven authentic letters are:
To the Ephesians
To the Magnesians
To the Trallians
To the Romans
To the Philadephians
To the Smyrnaeans
To Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna
By the 5th century, this authentic collection had been enlarged by spurious letters, and the original letters had been changed with interpolations, created to posthumously enlist Ignatius as an unwitting witness in theological disputes of that age, while the purported eye-witness account of his martyrdom is also thought to be a forgery from around the same time.So what of his fruit? Where are the miracles and gifts of the Spirit spoken of in him?
Perhaps he needs a thread.
NHDo you believe everything wikopedia says?
Dont get me wrong. I am not saying the writings of Ignatius are inspired.
I am simply responding to t8s post on writtings of Ignatius that he says shows the early Fathers denied the Trinity.
The source of my quotes I think are authentic.
Information on Ignatius of Antioch
William R. Schoedel comments on the recensions of Ignatius (The Anchor Bible Dictionary, v. 3, p. 384-385):Eusebius (Hist. Eccl. 3.36) places Ignatius' martyrdom in the reign of Trajan (A.D. 98-117), and a date in the second half of Trajan's reign or somewhat later seems to fit the picture of the conditions reflected in the letters. Arguments are still advanced (notably by Joly 1979) that call into question the authenticity of these documents, but the researches of Zahn (1873) and Lightfoot (1885, 1889) and their followers continue to dominate the scholarship.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ignatius.html
He died for his faith, I think thats a good enough work!
t8
Quote I'm not the one promoting a doctrine that is not taught in scripture and developed hundreds of years after the last book in the bible was written. I rely on scripture and admit I do not understand it all.
Quote I rely on scripture and admit I do not understand it all. t8. You admit that you do not have the understanding of scripture?
Then why do you promote this blasphemous doctrine of yours claiming to have scriptural evidence?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
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