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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:40) Hi W,
You say
“Ahh, so there is another agent other than God?”
Is God an agent of a greater being?
No.
The Son is.
NHGod dosnt have an “agent” no more.
He both mediator and God.
The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are the One God.
So it is written.
Worshipping Jesus
Quote We know Yeshua is our “Only Saviour and lord”, the mediator by whom we approach the Father through his flesh right. Yet we read..
Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and *beside me there is no saviour*.Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHWH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just *God and a Saviour*; there is *none beside me*.Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: *for there is no saviour beside me*.Since we know that scriptures declare that there is *None beside him* (YHWH), and yet Yeshua is our Saviour, then we only have three possible scenarios,
1. God lied
2. The scriputers contradict themselves
3. YWHY is the only Saviour and there is none beside him.
WJ. The third scenario is Biblically accurate. Yes! Only Jehovah God is our Saviour.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Jesus is our Saviour; our mighty Jehovah
Jesus is our Saviour; our mighty Jehovah
************This doesn't sound like any confession I've read in the scriptures.
Who confessed this concerning Jesus?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2007,10:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,10:40) Hi W,
You say
“Ahh, so there is another agent other than God?”
Is God an agent of a greater being?
No.
The Son is.
NHGod dosnt have an “agent” no more.
He both mediator and God.
The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are the One God.
So it is written.
Hi W,
Where is the verse?How fair would it feel if you went for mediation
and found the mediator was also the one
you had a relationship problem with?Hi Nick,
Why do you follow this 16th century human tradition of verses and not listen to the whole of Scripture? I've shown where it is written that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each God, but you won't listen.
A mediator has to be able to bind both parties in order for the mediation to accomplish anything. How can someone less than God bind God?
Tim
Hitim2,
We no longer follow tradition.So the mediator for men has to be God?
So the mediator for men is not a man?
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,16:57) Hitim2,
We no longer follow tradition.So the mediator for men has to be God?
So the mediator for men is not a man?
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
NHGal 3:20
A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.A mediator involves two partys and the mediator between the two.
This scripture bears out that God is One.
He is both the mediator and the 1 party.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself.
Jn 1:1 and 14
Hi W,
So in context.
Gal 3
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
So the mediator here is Moses who brought the law from the ONE GOD to men.
The promise to Abraham is greater than the law which it is not annulled by.
Moses was a man and a mediator is serving to bind two-in this case God and man.So learn from God that He is ONE.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2007,17:48) Hi W,
So in context.
Gal 3
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
So the mediator here is Moses who brought the law from the ONE GOD to men.
The promise to Abraham is greater than the law which it is not annulled by.
Moses was a man and a mediator is serving to bind two-in this case God and man.So learn from God that He is ONE.
NHHow does any of the scriptures you quote contradict that God was manifest in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself.
He is our only Saiour and there is none else.
Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and *beside me there is no saviour*.Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHWH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just *God and a Saviour*; there is *none beside me*.Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: *for there is no saviour beside me*.He is our only Savior. You need to get the heretical idea that the “law of agency” still exist under the New Covenant out of your head.
God is our mediator our Savior! Yeshua the Lord from heaven the second Adam, the Unique, Monogenes Son of God, the Word/God in the flesh.
The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit dosnt need any other being.
One God. Three persons One Spirit.
Nick says,
Quote We no longer follow tradition. Good. Then stop posting on this board and asking people to follow your tradition.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
You offer us traditional creeds as your faith base and do not see that it is you who follows tradition?No. I follow tradition. Tradition is good. 1 Corinthians 11:2.
You think that you are smarter than every human being who has ever existed and that you've discovered the truth of the Bible that no one else ever has. And you are trying to start your own tradition, otherwise you wouldn't be sharing your ideas with others. Right? Obviously you can't share your ideas with your kids, if you don't want to start a tradition, right?
Tim
Tim's got a point. Tradition isn't always bad, just blindly following false tradition. Every culture is deeply rooted in tradition of every kind. We all follow all kinds of traditions and break many others. We just need to recognize tradition for what it is, just tradition.
Hi kyle,
Tim2 admits he follows tradition but he should follow Jesus.
Tradition was that which the pharisees followed.Mk 7
” 5Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. “
That god was not our God and the leaven of the Pharisees was not the Spirit of God.
We were warned against that leaven.Mt 16
” 5And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.6Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
7And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
9Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
10Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”
That leaven caused them to rise up against God's anointed even killing him-such is the spirit of antichrist.
The spirit of antichrist leads men to develop their own doctrines from outside of scripture-such as trinity theory.
2Jn
” 7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
Nick Hassen
Quote Hi kyle,
Tim2 admits he follows tradition but he should follow Jesus.
Tradition was that which the pharisees followed.Nick. Is it true that you follow the tradition of the pharisees?
Both the pharisees and you deny the deity of Christ
Isa 42:20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2007,16:53) Hi CB,
For us there is ONE GOD,THE FATHER.
How many deities do you have?
NHYou believe in One God the Father and a son who was God!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,03:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2007,16:53) Hi CB,
For us there is ONE GOD,THE FATHER.
How many deities do you have?
NHYou believe in One God the Father and a son who was God!
Hi W,
Jn1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2The same was in the beginning with God.
1Jn 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Phil 2
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. “
So in the first two verses we have three statements that the Word was WITH GOD in the beginning. Such is established as scriptural fact.
We have only one statement that the Word WAS GOD. The only other verse that seems to parallel this that I can find is Phil 2 when it says the was IN THE FORM OF GOD.
All the verses do not speak to any time except “the beginning”. To extrapolate from there into the present or before the epoch of the beginning is not valid.
The verses do not speak of a continuum but a specified epoch. WAS does not mean “used to be FOREVER” or “remains as such FOREVER.” You may believe these things but they are not found stated here.
Comparison of Phil 2 with 1Jn tells us of the divine origins of the Word who is revealed in 1Jn 1 to be Jesus Christ, the SON of God. None of the verses speaks of the Word being a deity to be worshiped but that Deity is shown to be the God he was WITH in Jn 1, and revealed as THE FATHER in 1Jn 1.
We have ONE GOD AND ONE LORD but those who are not among us may have others.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,07:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,03:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2007,16:53) Hi CB,
For us there is ONE GOD,THE FATHER.
How many deities do you have?
NHYou believe in One God the Father and a son who was God!
Hi W,
Jn1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2The same was in the beginning with God.
1Jn 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Phil 2
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. “
So in the first two verses we have three statements that the Word was WITH GOD in the beginning. Such is established as scriptural fact.
We have only one statement that the Word WAS GOD. The only other verse that seems to parallel this that I can find is Phil 2 when it says the was IN THE FORM OF GOD.
All the verses do not speak to any time except “the beginning”. To extrapolate from there into the present or before the epoch of the beginning is not valid.
The verses do not speak of a continuum but a specified epoch. WAS does not mean “used to be FOREVER” or “remains as such FOREVER.” You may believe these things but they are not found stated here.
Comparison of Phil 2 with 1Jn tells us of the divine origins of the Word who is revealed in 1Jn 1 to be Jesus Christ, the SON of God. None of the verses speaks of the Word being a deity to be worshiped but that Deity is shown to be the God he was WITH in Jn 1, and revealed as THE FATHER in 1Jn 1.
We have ONE GOD AND ONE LORD but those who are not among us may have others.
NHSo now you are using the same method of translation you accuse Trinitarians of, piecing scriptures together.
You are using Phil 2 and 1 Jn 1 to interpret John 1:1.
John 1:1 is unambiguous NH.
The Word was God.
You try to say that this cant mean what it says.
Phil says he is in the “morphe” of God.
Heb 2:6
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,He was the exact representation of Gods substance. Heb 1:3
The Word was with God and was God!
You try to make these scriptures in John 1:1 and 1 John 1:1,2 say that in the beginning the Word was the Son.
None of these scriptures say this unless you use inference.
You have no proof the Word was a Son of God untill he took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and was born a Son.
Then you say the Word was God, but ceased to be God.
If this is true then your statement that the son was a son before he was born a son means that he is not a son anymore because he ceased to be the word/son when he was born.
Confusion dosnt come from God but from the spirit of desception the Father of lies.
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