- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi W,
You say
“Jesus on the other hand took credit or claimed that he had the power for works that he did.”
Not so.
He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
He also always gave all the credit for work done through his vessel to God.
Go empowered the prophets and Christ and empowered the body of Christ on earth and continues to empower those in him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 20 2007,10:36) Hi W,
You say
“Jesus on the other hand took credit or claimed that he had the power for works that he did.”
Not so.
He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
He also always gave all the credit for work done through his vessel to God.
Go empowered the prophets and Christ and empowered the body of Christ on earth and continues to empower those in him.
NHHeb 1:10
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1278
Jesus was not just a puppet on a string NH!
Neither was he just an empty vessel that the Father worked through!
Q: If God created all things through Christ, then guess who created all things?
A: God.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.2 Corinthians 5:18
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2007,10:23) Jesus on the other hand took credit or claimed that he had the power for works that he did.
No, I'm sorry WJ – you are wrong. Jesus said that he could not of himself do anything but that it was the Father that enabled him to do what he did. Jesus gave all glory to the Father, it's a shame you do not follow his example.Again, Jesus gave glory to the Father for what he accomplished on earth. Even the people gave glory to God who *gave* such power to a man – Jesus.
Quote (t8 @ June 20 2007,16:30) Q: If God created all things through Christ, then guess who created all things? A: God.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.2 Corinthians 5:18
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
t8Does God need another being to create all things through?
I repeat!
t8
Here is your delimma!
God is One.
Yet you say there is another “being” that was with him.
Your doctrine calls him “a god” or “a divine one” who God made all things through!
Your doctrine miss quotes John 1:1
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was “a” god.
Or
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was divine.
Look, here is the true interpretation…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375
t8. Your doctrine does not align with the Monotheistic Hebrew scriptures.
There is no other beside him t8.
Look…
Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Isa 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.You call God a liar when you say some other being was beside him other than God.
Look again…
Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;How do you explain this t8.
Oh and dont forget that God made all things “Through himself”.
Romans 11:36
For of him, and through (dia) him, and to him, *are all things*: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. Do you see how scripture corrects you?
You should not offend God by saying that there is any other being beside him!
There is One God.
The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
One Spirit, Three persons, One God!
Your Henotheistic belief is simply a sister to the Arians!Quote (t8 @ June 20 2007,16:30) Q: If God created all things through Christ, then guess who created all things? A: God.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.2 Corinthians 5:18
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Amen, t8.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 20 2007,12:55) Hi W,
If God created alone and did so through the Word
guess Who supplied the power and ability.
The answer: The Source of Jesus – God the Father.Good point, Nick. Amen!
Quote (t8 @ June 20 2007,16:30) Q: If God created all things through Christ, then guess who created all things? A: God.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.2 Corinthians 5:18
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
t8BTW
Still hung up on the word through?
Remember the word through is “dia” which can be translated “by” or “through”.
But lets look at it your way.
Party 1 wants to build a house.
Party 1 has party 2 build the house.
Party 1 built the house “through” party 2.
Did party 2 build the house?
t8 all things are through himself!
Romans 11:36
For of him, and through (dia) him, and to him, *are all things*: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2007,17:13) Does God need another being to create all things through?
Whether he needs a mediator or not is not the question.He obviously chose to create all things THROUGH him and FOR him.
It is what God chose. That is good enough for me and I do not question God as to why?
But if I was to take a guess I would say he created all things through Christ and for him because he loves his son.
I know I love to give things to my son.
Psa 102:24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.It is clear from scripture that only God was involved in creation, therefore
the creator God of Psalm 102:24-27 is the same creator God of Hebrews 1:10-12. The Father identifies Him as such.Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:10 shows that the pre-incarnate Jesus was the actual executor of all creation.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
It is clear from the above verses that Christ is the Creator God of Psalm 102:25.
Apostle John understood that Christ was the creator, the Almighty Jehovah.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The statement “All things were made by him” is an incredible statement to make of the Christ the Word. There was nothing in the created order that was not made by Him. John could not have made a stronger distinction between the Creator and the “things” that He “made”
Paul states, another amazing statement describing Jesus
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for himThe Bible clearly tells us that only God was involved in creation.
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;;
Yes, Jehovah God alone created, so Christ is Jehovah God.
Look!
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
See also the following scripture.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD (Jehovah) God made the earth and the heavens,We shall now see that it was Christ (Jehovah) who was the Creator.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD (Jehovah) made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD (Jehovah) blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Here scripture tells us that Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and then rested on the sabbath day (seventh day). And Jesus in Mark 2:28 asserting Himself as the Lord of the sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath
This makes Jesus “the Lord thy God”
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God
It was Christ (Jehovah) who created the heavens and the Earth and rested on the seventh day which He blessed, hallowed and sanctified: thus making Himself the Lord of the sabbath.
Remember that only God was involved in creation.
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;;
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Try dancing around that!
Jesus the Creator; Lord of the Sabbath, is the Lord thy God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Hi CB
'It is clear from the above verses that Christ is the Creator God of Psalm 102:25″
Not quite.
God created through him.Hi CB
You say
“Jesus the Creator; Lord of the Sabbath, is the Lord thy God.”
Then who is the God of the Son of God?Quote (Cult Buster @ June 22 2007,00:12) Psa 102:24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.It is clear from scripture that only God was involved in creation, therefore
the creator God of Psalm 102:24-27 is the same creator God of Hebrews 1:10-12. The Father identifies Him as such.Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:10 shows that the pre-incarnate Jesus was the actual executor of all creation.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
It is clear from the above verses that Christ is the Creator God of Psalm 102:25.
Apostle John understood that Christ was the creator, the Almighty Jehovah.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The statement “All things were made by him” is an incredible statement to make of the Christ the Word. There was nothing in the created order that was not made by Him. John could not have made a stronger distinction between the Creator and the “things” that He “made”
Paul states, another amazing statement describing Jesus
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for himThe Bible clearly tells us that only God was involved in creation.
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;;
Yes, Jehovah God alone created, so Christ is Jehovah God.
Look!
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
See also the following scripture.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD (Jehovah) God made the earth and the heavens,We shall now see that it was Christ (Jehovah) who was the Creator.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD (Jehovah) made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD (Jehovah) blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Here scripture tells us that Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and then rested on the sabbath day (seventh day). And Jesus in Mark 2:28 asserting Himself as the Lord of the sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath
This makes Jesus “the Lord thy God”
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God
It was Christ (Jehovah) who created the heavens and the Earth and rested on the seventh day which He blessed, hallowed and sanctified: thus making Himself the Lord of the sabbath.
Remember that only God was involved in creation.
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;;
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Try dancing around that!
Jesus the Creator; Lord of the Sabbath, is the Lord thy God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
CBAmen!
Mostly pure scripture. Excellent points. There is no getting around the fact that “Only God alone”, “One divine being” created all things.
This leaves the Henothiest with a huge contradiction that “another god” or “divine being” was involved with God in the creation of all things.
The Apostles were well aware of the Hebrew Scriptures that you quote!
Zech 7:11
But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.Hi W,
We are not allowed to add in clever inventions like trinity.
We have to let scripture speak and interpret itself.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2007,17:12) Hi W,
We are not allowed to add in clever inventions like trinity.
We have to let scripture speak and interpret itself.
NHYou say…
Quote
We have to let scripture speak and interpret itself.Look again…
Quote (Cult Buster @ June 22 2007,00:12) Psa 102:24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.It is clear from scripture that only God was involved in creation, therefore
the creator God of Psalm 102:24-27 is the same creator God of Hebrews 1:10-12. The Father identifies Him as such.Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:10 shows that the pre-incarnate Jesus was the actual executor of all creation.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
It is clear from the above verses that Christ is the Creator God of Psalm 102:25.
Apostle John understood that Christ was the creator, the Almighty Jehovah.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The statement “All things were made by him” is an incredible statement to make of the Christ the Word. There was nothing in the created order that was not made by Him. John could not have made a stronger distinction between the Creator and the “things” that He “made”
Paul states, another amazing statement describing Jesus
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for himThe Bible clearly tells us that only God was involved in creation.
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;;
Yes, Jehovah God alone created, so Christ is Jehovah God.
Look!
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
See also the following scripture.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD (Jehovah) God made the earth and the heavens,We shall now see that it was Christ (Jehovah) who was the Creator.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD (Jehovah) made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD (Jehovah) blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Here scripture tells us that Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and then rested on the sabbath day (seventh day). And Jesus in Mark 2:28 asserting Himself as the Lord of the sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath
This makes Jesus “the Lord thy God”
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God
It was Christ (Jehovah) who created the heavens and the Earth and rested on the seventh day which He blessed, hallowed and sanctified: thus making Himself the Lord of the sabbath.
Remember that only God was involved in creation.
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;;
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Try dancing around that!
Jesus the Creator; Lord of the Sabbath, is the Lord thy God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
CBAmen!
Mostly pure scripture. Excellent points. There is no getting around the fact that “Only God alone”, “One divine being” created all things.
This leaves the Henothiest with a huge contradiction that “another god” or “divine being” was involved with God in the creation of all things.
The Apostles were well aware of the Hebrew Scriptures that you quote!
Zech 7:11
But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear. Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 26 2007,09:35) Hi W,
You cannot explain these things without adding TRINITY THEORY to scripture?
Surely you can?
NHYou cant resolve it with a Henotheistic view!
Your doctrine is a contradiction and diabolically apossed to the Hebrew scriptures!
Look again…
Your doctrine teaches that God made everything through a “lesser god” or “lessor being”.
You deny the Hebrew scriptures. Look!
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and *there is no God else beside me*; a just God and a Saviour; *there is none beside me*.Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for *I am God, and there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,How does this fit into your Henotheistic belief NH?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 22 2007,16:51) This leaves the Henothiest with a huge contradiction that “another god” or “divine being” was involved with God in the creation of all things.
Well, I don't believe there is any contradiction regarding God being the sole creator of everything. He laid the foundations of the world with his Son (and us) in mind. Everything he did (created) he did *through* this idea of his future children.Jesus was not literally “involved” – he didn't DO the creating. However, nothing would have come into being if it wasn't *for* Jesus because we needed Jesus. Jesus was foreknown to God before the creation of it all…..just as we were. He (God) did it all for us.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
