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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:16) My definition of “God Alone” is the Father and Jesus the WordGod who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh. My definition is scriptural, yours is not.
You forgot somebody – the third person of God, the Holy Spirit. I tell ya, that third person really gets a bum rap. He's left out of quite a bit; that, and he doesn't even get a throne! Only the Father and Jesus are said to have a throne. Curious, huh?Your definition of God is deduced! Even if you want to claim John 1:1 as your definition of God, you cannot do so. Well, you could, but the Trinitarians would kick you out of the “creed-believing club.” For John 1:1 only speaks of the Father and the Word. This cannot be a definition of GOD for a trinitarian, can it?
On the other hand, the Bible is loaded with scriptures that say God is one, and that God is the Father. That is my definition of God – the same as Paul's in 1 Cor. 8:6. Oh, wait! My definition IS scriptural, huh?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,11:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:16) My definition of “God Alone” is the Father and Jesus the WordGod who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh. My definition is scriptural, yours is not.
You forgot somebody – the third person of God, the Holy Spirit. I tell ya, that third person really gets a bum rap. He's left out of quite a bit; that, and he doesn't even get a throne! Only the Father and Jesus are said to have a throne. Curious, huh?Your definition of God is deduced! Even if you want to claim John 1:1 as your definition of God, you cannot do so. Well, you could, but the Trinitarians would kick you out of the “creed-believing club.” For John 1:1 only speaks of the Father and the Word. This cannot be a definition of GOD for a trinitarian, can it?
On the other hand, the Bible is loaded with scriptures that say God is one, and that God is the Father. That is my definition of God – the same as Paul's in 1 Cor. 8:6. Oh, wait! My definition IS scriptural, huh?
Besides all this, you use unscriptural language for your definition: WordGod. Where is that?Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,11:51) WJ writes:
Jesus never said he wasnt good!
**********************************Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. “NO ONE is good – except God ALONE.”WJ writes:
What has changed is you say there is no other yet you claim Jesus as your saviour!
**************************************
Only GOD can save me. He chose to do this through his only begotten Son. Jesus did not save me by his work on the cross; it is by his resurrection that I have new life, and that by GOD who raised Jesus. Again, if it wasn't for GOD raising Jesus out of the tomb, he would still be there today with zero power to save anyone including himself!In regards to John 2 – just as in the Synoptics, when challenged to produce a miraculous sign as proof of his relationship with God, Jesus give the people a veiled reference to his future resurrection. The porophecy in John, however, does nt refer to Jonah as Matthew and Luke do, but to the temple of Jesus' body. In this case, John records Jesus' actual comment about the Temple, in which he prophesied that they would destroy the “temple,” that is kill him. In contrast, Matt. (26:61) and Mark (14:58) record the false witnesses giving their hearsay testimony at his trial, claiming that he had said that he would destroy the actual, physical Temple and rebuild it in three days.
WJ writes:
Your definition of “God alone” is the Father + a mere man.
*****************************
No. My definition of God is God. God also happen to have a Son who helped facilitate the master plan, but that Son is not God (too).
not3You say…
Quote
n regards to John 2 – just as in the Synoptics, when challenged to produce a miraculous sign as proof of his relationship with God, Jesus give the people a veiled reference to his future resurrection. The porophecy in John, however, does nt refer to Jonah as Matthew and Luke do, but to the temple of Jesus' body. In this case, John records Jesus' actual comment about the Temple, in which he prophesied that they would destroy the “temple,” that is kill him. In contrast, Matt. (26:61) and Mark (14:58) record the false witnesses giving their hearsay testimony at his trial, claiming that he had said that he would destroy the actual, physical Temple and rebuild it in three days.
So what are you saying, that there is another contradiction here?How about this one…
Jn 10:
T17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.So we see that not only “God” the Father raised up Jesus but “God” the Son raised himself!
You say…
Quote No. My definition of God is God. God also happen to have a Son who helped facilitate the master plan, but that Son is not God (too). Again you say that “God alone” is your saviour yet you still add Jesus “a mere man” to you in the equation!
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,11:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:16) My definition of “God Alone” is the Father and Jesus the WordGod who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh. My definition is scriptural, yours is not.
You forgot somebody – the third person of God, the Holy Spirit. I tell ya, that third person really gets a bum rap. He's left out of quite a bit; that, and he doesn't even get a throne! Only the Father and Jesus are said to have a throne. Curious, huh?Your definition of God is deduced! Even if you want to claim John 1:1 as your definition of God, you cannot do so. Well, you could, but the Trinitarians would kick you out of the “creed-believing club.” For John 1:1 only speaks of the Father and the Word. This cannot be a definition of GOD for a trinitarian, can it?
On the other hand, the Bible is loaded with scriptures that say God is one, and that God is the Father. That is my definition of God – the same as Paul's in 1 Cor. 8:6. Oh, wait! My definition IS scriptural, huh?
not3The Spirit who is God proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) Jn 10:
T17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
The part of the scripture that you should bold and underline is the last sentence…..THIS COMMANDMENT HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER.
Jesus cannot do anything except for what his Father (who is God alone) gives him the power to do.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:07) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,11:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:16) My definition of “God Alone” is the Father and Jesus the WordGod who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh. My definition is scriptural, yours is not.
You forgot somebody – the third person of God, the Holy Spirit. I tell ya, that third person really gets a bum rap. He's left out of quite a bit; that, and he doesn't even get a throne! Only the Father and Jesus are said to have a throne. Curious, huh?Your definition of God is deduced! Even if you want to claim John 1:1 as your definition of God, you cannot do so. Well, you could, but the Trinitarians would kick you out of the “creed-believing club.” For John 1:1 only speaks of the Father and the Word. This cannot be a definition of GOD for a trinitarian, can it?
On the other hand, the Bible is loaded with scriptures that say God is one, and that God is the Father. That is my definition of God – the same as Paul's in 1 Cor. 8:6. Oh, wait! My definition IS scriptural, huh?
Besides all this, you use unscriptural language for your definition: WordGod. Where is that?
not3Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:09) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,11:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:16) My definition of “God Alone” is the Father and Jesus the WordGod who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh. My definition is scriptural, yours is not.
You forgot somebody – the third person of God, the Holy Spirit. I tell ya, that third person really gets a bum rap. He's left out of quite a bit; that, and he doesn't even get a throne! Only the Father and Jesus are said to have a throne. Curious, huh?Your definition of God is deduced! Even if you want to claim John 1:1 as your definition of God, you cannot do so. Well, you could, but the Trinitarians would kick you out of the “creed-believing club.” For John 1:1 only speaks of the Father and the Word. This cannot be a definition of GOD for a trinitarian, can it?
On the other hand, the Bible is loaded with scriptures that say God is one, and that God is the Father. That is my definition of God – the same as Paul's in 1 Cor. 8:6. Oh, wait! My definition IS scriptural, huh?
not3The Spirit who is God proceeds from the Father and the Son.
This may be true, but he does not appear to be “equal” in a wide variety of circumstances in the Bible. You have to wonder why that is. One of those things that make you go, “Hmmmmm.”Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) Jn 10:
T17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
The part of the scripture that you should bold and underline is the last sentence…..THIS COMMANDMENT HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER.
Jesus cannot do anything except for what his Father (who is God alone) gives him the power to do.
not3Yes the Father has commited “All things” to the Son.
There is no disunity in the God head.
Do you know of any “mere man” that could raise himself from the dead?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) So we see that not only “God” the Father raised up Jesus but “God” the Son raised himself!
This sentense is nonesense!If I didn't know you better, I would think you are convinced of two “Gods.”
And speaking of equality, how come God the Holy Spirit didn't have a part in raising God the Son?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:09) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,11:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:16) My definition of “God Alone” is the Father and Jesus the WordGod who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh. My definition is scriptural, yours is not.
You forgot somebody – the third person of God, the Holy Spirit. I tell ya, that third person really gets a bum rap. He's left out of quite a bit; that, and he doesn't even get a throne! Only the Father and Jesus are said to have a throne. Curious, huh?Your definition of God is deduced! Even if you want to claim John 1:1 as your definition of God, you cannot do so. Well, you could, but the Trinitarians would kick you out of the “creed-believing club.” For John 1:1 only speaks of the Father and the Word. This cannot be a definition of GOD for a trinitarian, can it?
On the other hand, the Bible is loaded with scriptures that say God is one, and that God is the Father. That is my definition of God – the same as Paul's in 1 Cor. 8:6. Oh, wait! My definition IS scriptural, huh?
not3The Spirit who is God proceeds from the Father and the Son.
This may be true, but he does not appear to be “equal” in a wide variety of circumstances in the Bible. You have to wonder why that is. One of those things that make you go, “Hmmmmm.”
not3Well thats a start.
How can the Spirit of God “proceed from the Son”?
How can Jesus baptise with his own Spirit which the scriptures say is the Spirit of God?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:15) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) Jn 10:
T17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
The part of the scripture that you should bold and underline is the last sentence…..THIS COMMANDMENT HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER.
Jesus cannot do anything except for what his Father (who is God alone) gives him the power to do.
not3Yes the Father has commited “All things” to the Son.
There is no disunity in the God head.
Do you know of any “mere man” that could raise himself from the dead?
Your not listening, WJ.Jesus DID NOT RAISE HIMSELF. Read the scripture again. He received the power to take his life up again from the Father, who is God. He did not possess this power himself!
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) So we see that not only “God” the Father raised up Jesus but “God” the Son raised himself!
This sentense is nonesense!If I didn't know you better, I would think you are convinced of two “Gods.”
And speaking of equality, how come God the Holy Spirit didn't have a part in raising God the Son?
not3How is this nonsence?
The scriptures claim God raised Jesus and yet Jesus claimed he would raise himself!
Do you believe the scriptures? All of them?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:22) I have to run take my son to select baseball……..glad to chat with you.
later!Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:15) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) Jn 10:
T17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
The part of the scripture that you should bold and underline is the last sentence…..THIS COMMANDMENT HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER.
Jesus cannot do anything except for what his Father (who is God alone) gives him the power to do.
not3Yes the Father has commited “All things” to the Son.
There is no disunity in the God head.
Do you know of any “mere man” that could raise himself from the dead?
Your not listening, WJ.Jesus DID NOT RAISE HIMSELF. Read the scripture again. He received the power to take his life up again from the Father, who is God. He did not possess this power himself!
not3You say…
Quote
Jesus DID NOT RAISE HIMSELFJn 10:
17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.Of course the Father gave him the power. Phil 2.
God gave back all things Jesus had with the Father before the foundation of the world which Jesus himself created!
Hi W,
You say
“God gave back all things Jesus had with the Father before the foundation of the world which Jesus himself created!”
Great to see you know the Father is God.
When was this that the powers he had were returned?
Jesus was praying for the restoration of his glory just before he returned to God.
He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power so was this additional to the return of his powers?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:22) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) So we see that not only “God” the Father raised up Jesus but “God” the Son raised himself!
This sentense is nonesense!If I didn't know you better, I would think you are convinced of two “Gods.”
And speaking of equality, how come God the Holy Spirit didn't have a part in raising God the Son?
not3How is this nonsence?
The scriptures claim God raised Jesus and yet Jesus claimed he would raise himself!
Do you believe the scriptures? All of them?
Of course I believe all scripture.And all of scripture explains how Jesus is able to do the things that he did (miracles and raising the dead – including as you say – raising himself) —– he did it by the same power that Peter raised the dead. GOD'S POWER. Not power that they possessed themselves. Both Peter and Jesus knew there was only One God.
When scripture says that God will raise Jesus and then it also says that Jesus raised himself – you have to go in search of why it says that. And we did search – we found out that the Father has committed this to the Son. The Son is *able* to do these things because the Father has *given* him the right to. Do you see the difference?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:27) Jn 10:
17 herefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.Of course the Father gave him the power. Phil 2.
God gave back all things Jesus had with the Father before the foundation of the world which Jesus himself created!
Yes, the Father (who is God alone) gave Jesus the power to do a great many things. In fact, God is still giving Jesus the power to reign and rule, until such time when Jesus will turn *everything* over to God so that God can be all in all.It's interesting how you never hear of Jesus giving anything to the Father (if indeed they are “all” equal, you might expect to see a give-and-take among the persons of God, I don't know?)
God did not “give back” to Jesus anything!! There are no scriptures to back this theory up.
The world was created “through” Jesus. Jesus did not lay the foundations – God did – ALONE! For this is what Isaiah teaches that God laid the foundations and set the stars in place with his OWN HAND.
Hi W,
You ask
“How can the Spirit of God “proceed from the Son”?'The Spirit of God was given to the fullness of deity to the Son
and the Son was made for us by God the source of that Spirit.
Jn15
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:Christ is the one who baptises in the Spirit.
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,14:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:22) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,12:07) So we see that not only “God” the Father raised up Jesus but “God” the Son raised himself!
This sentense is nonesense!If I didn't know you better, I would think you are convinced of two “Gods.”
And speaking of equality, how come God the Holy Spirit didn't have a part in raising God the Son?
not3How is this nonsence?
The scriptures claim God raised Jesus and yet Jesus claimed he would raise himself!
Do you believe the scriptures? All of them?
Of course I believe all scripture.And all of scripture explains how Jesus is able to do the things that he did (miracles and raising the dead – including as you say – raising himself) —– he did it by the same power that Peter raised the dead. GOD'S POWER. Not power that they possessed themselves. Both Peter and Jesus knew there was only One God.
When scripture says that God will raise Jesus and then it also says that Jesus raised himself – you have to go in search of why it says that. And we did search – we found out that the Father has committed this to the Son. The Son is *able* to do these things because the Father has *given* him the right to. Do you see the difference?
not3No. The difference is, you cant find me one example where a desciple or child of God anywhere claimed he had the power or that he did it.
Jesus on the other hand took credit or claimed that he had the power for works that he did.
What man could say this not3….
Jn 5:
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, *and* I work.18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
They wanted to stone him because he said whatever “God” does he does.
Listen…
Jn 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he (God) doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.Jesus is not saying here he dosnt have any power of his own.
He is saying that he will do nothing unless he sees his Father doing it, in other words confirming Phil 2 and Heb 10 that he came to do the Fathers will.
Do you know any being that can do “whatever” he sees God do?
Jn 5:
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Do you see how that whatever God does, Jesus does?
What man can claim that God has given him “All Things”?
Would God give all things to another being less than himself?
How is that possible? If God gives “all things” than the one he gives all things to is equal to God.
Can you see that?
So Jesus said that men should “Honour” him as they honour God.
Do you know a man that would dare say such?
How about an anointed prophet or King or Apostle?
Who would dare say this…
Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Even the Father gives the Son this honour!
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.You should give him the same honour also, just like Thomas did…
Listen again…
Jn 20:
28 And Thomas answered and *said unto him*, My Lord and my God.This passage seems to be so distressing to the Unitarians and Henotheist and Arians.
If I was one I would be stressed to.
How do you explain these contradictions?
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