Trinity &#8211; t8&#39;s proof text #1

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,05:13)

Not3in1,
You seem to be equating the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God. Just so I understand you correctly can you answer this question for me? Is the “Spirit of Christ” the personal spirit of the Yeshua?

Tell me what you think.

March 27, 2007 at 4:55 am#46692

Participant

In the physical sense – within me – no.

Jesus said we could be one with the Father as he was. If Jesus is the second person in a Trinity, that would be ridiculous for him to pray such a thing, wouldn't it? He prayed that we could be one with his Father the same way that he is one with him……through a spirit of union – a spirit of brotherhood – a spirit of “one for all, and all for one,” ——-

John 17:23
“I in them, and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

March 27, 2007 at 4:57 am#46693

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,04:58)

When you pray to the Father, you say at the end, “In Jesus name.” When you pray to Jesus, what do you say at the end? When you pray to the Holy Spirit, what do you say at the end?

So is it only when you pray to the Father that you are “praying in Jesus' name?” And if so, why?

I'm confused.

not3in1

Tacking the name of Jesus on the end of a prayer means nothing iif we are not abiding in him.

Men have been taught that simply throwing the name of Jesus around as some magical formula that they are gonna be heard.

Example:

Acts 19:13
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you *by Jesus* whom Paul preacheth.

And as we have already seen…

2 Cor 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus*, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

There is no secret formula for living in the Spirit or God living in us.

Jesus said…

Jn 15:7
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it “shall” be done unto you.

We abide in him by his Spirit, which is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit which is God who abides in us and fills us.

Having the Spirit of the Son in us means that we can come boldly into his throne room through the veil of his flesh.

Heb 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

There is no mention of in the Name of Jesus here, because we are in his name, because we are in him and he is in us.

If you want to tack Jesus on the end of the prayer, fine.
I see nothing wrong with it, but dont think you will recieve anything from him just because you use his name.

Search and see if there is a prayer in the scriptures where an Apostle uses “in Jesus name” at the end of a prayer.

As I said before, you willl see Apostles or believers do many mighty works in his name, because they were in him and his words abided in them.

Matt 18:
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

This is why its so important to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.

There is strength in numbers, not to mention we grow in the Word and Spirit.

1 Jn 5:14
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Living Word of God.

James 1:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord (kurios).

This kind of faith comes from abiding in him and his words abiding in us.

But who is the wisdom of God? Jesus.

Then shall we ask God for wisdom in faith so that we may recieve from the Lord Jesus!

He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Blessings

March 27, 2007 at 5:05 am#46694

Participant

Quote

In the physical sense – within me – no.

Then how would you explain these NT statements?:

John 14:20
20In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Romans 8:10
10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Galatians 4:6
6Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

2 Corinthians 3:16-18
16but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:5
5Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you–unless indeed you fail the test?

Ephesians 3:17
17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Colossians 1:27
27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 3:11
11a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

March 27, 2007 at 5:06 am#46696

NickHassan

Participant

Hi w,
You say
“Having the Spirit of the Son in us means that we can come boldly into his throne room through the veil of his flesh.

Heb 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

There is no mention of in the Name of Jesus here, because we are in his name, because we are in him and he is in us.”

True.

But the throne of Grace is that of the Father.

As also Christ tore the temple curtain of his flesh that we might access the Holy of Holies-where God dwelled.
He is not Almighty God but the priest and mediator for God.

March 27, 2007 at 5:16 am#46695

Participant

I asked these questions of you, because I have been in services where they begin with prayer to the Father, then somewhere in the middle they are addressing Jesus, and at the end they say, “In the name of Jesus.”” So they were praying to Jesus and then also tacked on the “In the name of Jesus” at the end. Confusing. I sometimes wonder to myself if they have lost track of who they are praying to? Because why would you pray to Jesus and then say, “In Jesus name, Amen.” That just doesn't sound right, ya know?

March 27, 2007 at 5:20 am#46697

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2007,06:06)

Hi w,
You say
“Having the Spirit of the Son in us means that we can come boldly into his throne room through the veil of his flesh.

Heb 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

There is no mention of in the Name of Jesus here, because we are in his name, because we are in him and he is in us.”

True.

But the throne of Grace is that of the Father.

As also Christ tore the temple curtain of his flesh that we might access the Holy of Holies-where God dwelled.
He is not Almighty God but the priest and mediator for God.

Look at the context…

Heb 4:14
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, *Jesus the Son of God*, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need

Jesus is still our King and Priest!

And yes he is in his Fathers throne…

Rev 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

There is none other but God that can sit in this throne.

March 27, 2007 at 5:21 am#46698

Participant

If Jesus were physically IN us, and the Father were physically IN us……….wouldn't that be two that are in us? Or are you of the mind that God and Jesus are the same “spirit.”

Besides, we cannot be “one” as God and Jesus are (according to the Trinity). So obviously, Jesus was praying in John 17 for a “oneness” and unity that we COULD enjoy with both of them.

There is only One Spririt, and that is God.

March 27, 2007 at 5:23 am#46699

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,06:16)

Not3in1

I suppose if you were praying to the Father and tacked “in Fathers Name” on the end, it wouldnt sound right either would it?

March 27, 2007 at 5:24 am#46700

Participant

No, it wouldn't. But what do you mean?

March 27, 2007 at 5:25 am#46701

Participant

Romans 8:9-11
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Paul certainly equates the Spirit of God with the Spirit of Christ. He used the terminology interchangably in this text….

March 27, 2007 at 5:26 am#46702

Participant

Do you mean to say that if we are praying to the Father we tack on, “In Jesus name.” If we are praying to the Son we tack on, “In the name of the Father.” And if we are praying to the Holy Spirit we tack on, “?”

March 27, 2007 at 5:26 am#46703

NickHassan

Participant

Hi W,

I agree that we need to study context.

” 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, *Jesus the Son of God*, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need”

So if Jesus in this verse is shown to be the priest TO GOD
how likely is it that he was also the GOD to Whom he was priest?

March 27, 2007 at 5:28 am#46704

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,06:21)

If Jesus were physically IN us, and the Father were physically IN us……….wouldn't that be two that are in us?

well now that you mention it….Yes!

John 14:23
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Two persons, one divine Spirit…

Unless you have a better explanation.

March 27, 2007 at 5:28 am#46705

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,20:33)

In answer to your question I will clarify the scriptures above as follows…

If I use the word “God” in my prayer, I am refering to One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Yay, the answer was in there.

So as I said earlier, you pray to God using singular language because you are praying to the substance which is the one part of God according to the Trinity doctrine.

You pray to the one substance and then are at liberty to address any of the persons within the substance.

Thank you for clarifying that and I just want everyone who reads this to see how ridiculous the Trinity doctrine is that they pray to the 1 substance and address any of the 3 persons that are spawned or within the substance.

This is not meant to be demeaning to anyone's prayer life for God certainly hears his children and I am not saying you are not his child, the point is to show how silly the Trinity doctrine really is.

Feel free to take this further if you wish WorshippingJesus, but it is my turn to answer you and I will when I have a reasonable amount of time to do so.

Thanks.

March 27, 2007 at 5:29 am#46706

Participant

Dwelling in you. Yes. But think about this logically for a moment. If you are a Trinitarian, you cannot say that both God and Jesus “dwell” in you physically. Does also the Holy Ghost “dwell” in you physically? Are you to mean that we have a Triune God dwelling in us physically?

Jesus prayed that we would be one as he and his Father are one. If you are a Trinitarian, do you mean to say that you think Jesus was praying that we also could become God or Gods? Do you see where this leads? It cannot be a physical dwelling, but rather a figure of speech. Of course we are “in” Christ. Of course God “dwells” in us. But physically?

March 27, 2007 at 5:30 am#46707

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,06:26)

not3in1

Im saying that simply tacking on a name in prayer means nothing if we are not in him.

March 27, 2007 at 5:30 am#46708