Trinity &#8211; t8&#39;s proof text #1

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ July 31 2007,03:13)

Quote (Cult Buster @ July 30 2007,05:34)

Kejonn. Why don't you just accept the Bible evidence that Jesus is The Lord Thy God instead of putting the twist on everything that does not fit your church's dogma.

Quote

Show me once instance of “Lord God Jesus Christ” in the Bible and I will believe in the Trinity. Until then, you have just made your own title.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Kejonn is now converted to the trinity

Close, but it doesn't say “Lord God Jesus Christ” . But very darn close :laugh: .

Hey, I don't have a church anymore…I recently left a Baptist one and was a Baptist for 20+ years.

kejonn. Look again. Scripture does indeed say that Jesus is the Lord God.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Welcome back to the trinity!

July 30, 2007 at 4:26 pm#62323

kejonn

Participant

Hehe, “My Lord and my God” is not quite the same as “Lord God”. Very close, but no pie. Just a can of potted meat .

July 31, 2007 at 9:40 am#62540

Participant

How many people in history have cried out “My God” or “My Lord” or both, when they saw something amazing? Plenty right? Are they calling the thing itself God?

But Jesus can also be our God, he too has a God which is the same God as ours, the Most High God.

Likewise Jesus is lord, but when I was younger and went flatting, I had a landlord. My landlord wasn't a false lord, he just wasn't the Lord of all. He was a lord though. Lord of the property I rented.

Jesus is our head and God is the head of Christ.

July 31, 2007 at 6:30 pm#62590

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 31 2007,21:40)

How many people in history have cried out “My God” or “My Lord” or both, when they saw something amazing? Plenty right? Are they calling the thing itself God?

But Jesus can also be our God, he too has a God which is the same God as ours, the Most High God.

Jesus is our head and God is the head of Christ.

What you know he finally admits Jesus is God.

Well t8 is he “a god” or God?

If he is “a god” then you have two gods.

July 31, 2007 at 6:52 pm#62595

Participant

WJ;

After Christ was resurrected he said he was returning to his God? Who was he referring to when he said “his God”?

Steven

July 31, 2007 at 6:57 pm#62600

Participant

CB;

How is God the head of Christ if Christ is God? Why does Christ worship the Father? Does the Father worship the Son? Does the Father keep the Son's commandments? Does the Son keep the Father's commandments? A child could see who the “most high God” is, you have to interject heresy to find otherwise.

Steven

July 31, 2007 at 7:12 pm#62603

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 01 2007,06:52)

WJ;

After Christ was resurrected he said he was returning to his God? Who was he referring to when he said “his God”?

Steven

Steve

Jesus calls the Father God.

The Father calls Jesus God!

Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Notice the Son who is God shall have his throne for ever and ever!

August 1, 2007 at 10:35 am#62686

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 01 2007,10:57)

CB;

Steven

Steven.

You still have the problem where you deny the incarnation. That God took the form of a man relying on the Father for power while in the incarnate state..

By focussing only on Christ's incarnation as a man, you are ignoring a multitude of scripture.

How can you honestly ignore such a volume of scripture that proclaims the divinity of Christ? Doesn't it bother you? After all it is the Holy Bible you are playing with; God's Word, not a game of chess.

The Christ promoted on this arian website is not the Christ of the Bible. It is antichrist. (another Christ)

The heavennet clan are spiritual Jehovah's Witnesses.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

August 1, 2007 at 10:42 am#62687

Participant

Hi Mr. Steve.

Be careful of WJ and CultB's leaven.

You are correct.

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

God > Christ > Man > Woman

Each one is different, even if some share the same nature.

August 1, 2007 at 12:14 pm#62692

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m

Participant

Mr Steve.

Do you know that the JW clan here on heavennet are suffering from the strong delusion mentioned in 2 Thessalonians. Do you wish to become like them, or would you rather have the salvation that comes from belief of the truth? The choice is yours. Choose today!

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Do you want the Jehovah Jesus of the Bible or will you accept the masonic jesus; the “another Jesus” ?

Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

JOHN 5:17-18 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

MATTHEW 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Compare
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre
With
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Compare
Psa 41:13 Blessed be the LORD (Jehovah) God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
With
MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.

JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Compare
1 CHRONICLES 28:9 . . . the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts:
With
MATTHEW 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
MATTHEW 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, . . .
REVELATION 2:23 . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: . . .

Compare
DANIEL 9:9 To the Lord our God {belong} mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
LUKE 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
With
LUKE 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
MARK 2:5-10 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (6) But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, (7) Why doth this {man} thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Compare
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
With
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Compare
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD (Jehovah): for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
With
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

PSALM 148:1-2 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights. (2) Praise ye him, all his angels : praise ye him, all his hosts.
HEBREWS 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

DEUTERONOMY 10:17 For the Lord your God {is} God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, . . . {cf. Ps 136:2-3, 1 Tim 6:15}
REVELATION 17:14 . . . the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: . . .{cf. Rev 19:16}

PSALM 62:12 . . . unto thee, O Lord, {belongeth} mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work. {cf. Is 40:10}
MATTHEW 16:27 For the Son of man shall . . . reward every man according to his works.

ROMANS 7:22 . . . the law of God . . . {cf. Ps 19:7}
GALATIANS 6:2 . . . fulfil the law of Christ.

ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of God. . .
+ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of Christ, .. .

*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord (Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
*LUKE 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
+LUKE 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
2 PETER 1:1 . . . God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Mat 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins

*ISAIAH 40:10 Behold, the Lord God will come with strong {hand}, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward {is} with him, and his work before him.
2 THESSALONIANS 1:7-8 . . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Psa 50:6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness; For God is judge himself. Selah
Psa 7:8 The LORD (Jehovah) shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
ECCLESIASTES 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether {it be} good or whether {it be} evil.
JOHN 5:22,27 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son . . . (27
) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. (Stephen kneeling and praying to Jesus)

Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ

August 1, 2007 at 7:23 pm#62722

Participant

CB;

I've read many of your posts. You like to make allegations about others and then quote a billion scriptures with no facts or analysis to support your contentions. Do you know what that kind of person is? The kind that does not know how to argue even what they are alleging is true. You must have facts to support your argument. Let me show you.
You state that Jesus is Jehovah. No where in the new testament does Jesus say that he is Jehovah. Now I'm sure you believe that the Father Jehovah spoke before all who could hear at Christ baptism and said “Thou art my Son” This is the Father stating to his Son Jesus that Jesus is his Son. So if Christ is the Son of the Father Jehovah, how can he also be Jehovah. Did he send himself as you must believe. Jesus said that he was sent by his Father, not of his own will. So now you have something you can explain. Tell me how if Christ is the Son of God and did not send himself that he can also be Jehovah that sent him. I'm sure we would all like to know. When you make a claim support it with a scriptural truth. Otherwise, the masses of scripture that you give me are just scriptures without any argument or application to how you believe.

Steven

August 1, 2007 at 8:24 pm#62731

kejonn

Participant

Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 01 2007,07:14)

Mr Steve.

There you go with that JW hatred again. You think everyone who disbelieves the Trinity is a closet JW. No, they just use the Bible rather that formulated extra-biblical creeds of men. Speaking of scripture…

Deu 13:1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 “You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
Deu 13:5 “But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 13:6 “If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods' (whom neither you nor your fathers have known,
Deu 13:7 of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end),
Deu 13:8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.
Deu 13:9 “But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 13:10 “So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Deu 13:11 “Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you.

Interesting. Ask any Jew. They do not know a God of three persons. This is a God they have not known. So when Jews today look at what Yeshua did with his signs and wonders, and then listen to Trinitarians tell them about some new triune God, they recall Deuteronomy 13. But if non-trinitarians show them the truth of the New Testament, and show them that the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Israel is the selfsame God of Yeshua, the Father YHW God Almighty, they might just see that Yeshua is the Messiah and accept him as Lord and Master. Give them the Trinity, all they see is Yeshua, “dreamer of dreams” and one who in their eyes was rightfully put to death as Deuteronomy 13 prescribes.

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2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

What truth? Paul did not teach the Trinity. Paul taught that Yeshua was the Son of God, and Lord.

Quote

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Wicked. Since the Trinity came after Paul penned these words, and he did not teach or preach Trinity, are your sure the delusion is not in your camp?

Quote

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Since Paul did not espouse the Trinity, I'd be careful using such strong langage of those who actually believe as Paul does. I'd be wary that perhaps Paul was predicting a delusion that became in creed around 325 CE.

Quote

Do you want the Jehovah Jesus of the Bible or will you accept the masonic jesus; the “another Jesus” ?

Jehovah Jesus? Show me a verse that says “Jehovah Jesus”. Your “Jehovah Jesus” is the unbiblical one. If I must accept the “Jehovah Jesus” then I'll take the last option you gave. I'll take the Jesus that is shown to me in the Bible. Son of God, Son of Man, Saviour, Master, Lord. And I'll praise God for sending His only begotten Son.

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Yes, they thought he was making himself equal with God, and so do you. Birds of a feather. Too bad Yeshua didn't agree with them (or you). Read the rest of the verses beyond this because Yeshua sets the record staight for them (and you).

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DANIEL 9:9 To the Lord our God {belong} mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
LUKE 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
With
LUKE 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
MARK 2:5-10 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (6) But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, (7) Why doth this {man} thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Jhn 20:22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Jhn 20:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

I guess the Apostles are God too huh? Let's see, 12 Apostles, three persons of God…what does 15 persons of God equal?

Anyway, all the rest of the verses you listed, I've explained before. You'll just ignore them again so why bother.

August 1, 2007 at 10:46 pm#62740

Participant

Kejonn;

I guess CB is still trying to figure out how to explain that Jesus is the Jehovah of the old testament and the Son of Jehovah in the new testament. Particularly, since the Father spoke in the new testament and said Christ was his son. If Christ is the Father's Son and also Jehovah, then how come Jehovah spoke in the old testament that there was no God beside him, when in fact Jesus said the Father was his God. It's called an inherent impossibility, entirely contradictory. When I was first saved and read the book of John, I always wondered why Christ repeated the factual aspects of his relationship with his Father. It was because he knew that many would come and try to pervert who he said he was and distort the entire doctrine of God.

August 2, 2007 at 7:10 am#62789

Participant

Good post Mr Steve and the great falling away has come to pass and it proceeds the coming of our Lord.

August 2, 2007 at 10:51 am#62810

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m

Participant

Mr Steve

Quote

You state that Jesus is Jehovah. No where in the new testament does Jesus say that he is Jehovah.

My suggestion to you Mr Steve is that you follow what Jesus says. Don't follow Watchtower doctrines. Don't follow the heavennet clan. They are spiritual JWs. Offshoots from Jehovah's Witness theology. See where your doctrines come from.

Listen to Jesus. (The real Jesus not your “other Jesus”.)

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Now open your eyes and this time look! You have no credible explanation for the following without putting the “twist” on scripture.

To try to prove your arian doctrine you are ignoring a multitude of scripture which is biblical shortsightedness.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

MATTHEW 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

ROMANS 7:22 . . . the law of God . . . {cf. Ps 19:7}
GALATIANS 6:2 . . . fulfil the law of Christ.

ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of God. . .
+ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of Christ, .. .

Psa 50:6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness; For God is judge himself. Selah
Psa 7:8 The LORD (Jehovah) shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
ECCLESIASTES 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether {it be} good or whether {it be} evil.
JOHN 5:22,27 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son . . . (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ

August 2, 2007 at 9:23 pm#62862

Participant

CB;

I'm still waiting for you to explain how Christ can be the Son of Jehovah and Jehovah, too. Let me give you an insight. The new testament is the revelation of Jesus Christ. I know the last book is called revelation, but really the entire new testament is God revealing himself to us through his Son Jesus Christ. The revelation of Jesus Christ brings us to God the Father through Christ. All of the old testament scriptures that speak of God alone did not reveal what John said that he (Christ) was in the World and the world was made by him. Paul tells us in Hebrews that God created the worlds through his Son Jesus Christ.

August 3, 2007 at 4:37 am#62911

Participant

Mr Steve.

We have already seen numerous verses that show there are Three Holy Divine Beings named Jehovah.

Can you ignore the following?

August 5, 2007 at 7:08 am#63210