Trinity – t8's proof text #1 – Page 29

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June 20, 2007 at 5:07 am#55970

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (t8 @ June 20 2007,16:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 20 2007,16:29)

Jn 8:42
Jesus said unto them, *If God were your Father*, *ye would love me*: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

To WJ.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

That is if God were your Father.

But God for you includes 2 others. God for you is Triune, not one. Your God is a substance. But the one true God is the Father.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

If God were your Father you would believe that Jesus came from God.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

But you believe that God is not the Father but a group that includes the Father. Therefore you truly do not believe that Christ came from God, you believe he IS God.

This scripture you quoted is true and your words and understanding do no align with it. You thought you could quote it to strengthen your teachings, but the scripture caught you in your craftiness.

But see here is your delimma!

God is One.

Yet you say there is another “being” that was with him.

Your doctrine calls him “a god” or “a divine one” who God made all things through!

Your doctrine miss quotes John 1:1

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was “a” god.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was divine.

Look, here is the true interpretation…

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375

t8. Your doctrine does not align with the Monotheistic Hebrew scriptures.

There is no other beside him t8.

Look…

Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

You call God a liar when you say some other being was beside him other than God.

Look again…

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

How do you explain this t8.

Oh and dont forget that God made all things “Through himself”.

Romans 11:36
For of him, and through (dia) him, and to him, *are all things*: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Do you see how scripture corrects you?

You should not offend God by saying that there is any other being beside him!

There is One God.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

One Spirit, Three persons, One God!

Your Henotheistic belief is simply a sister to the Arians!

June 20, 2007 at 7:27 am#55998

NickHassan

Participant

Hi W,
You should not offend God by teaching what is not written
such as
“There is One God.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.”

June 20, 2007 at 2:26 pm#56015

acertainchap

Participant

There is one true God made of three distinct seperate parts. The Holy Spirit dwells within God the Father and God the Son, and most probably everything else including ourselves.

June 21, 2007 at 12:59 am#56063

kenrch

Participant

Quote (acertainchap @ June 21 2007,02:26)

There is one true God made of three distinct seperate parts. The Holy Spirit dwells within God the Father and God the Son, and most probably everything else including ourselves.

Is Jesus God Or does Jesus have God without measure?

June 21, 2007 at 3:11 am#56075

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (acertainchap @ June 21 2007,02:26)

There is one true God made of three distinct seperate parts.

To acertainchap.

That is illogical.

3 distinct parts of a one = 33.3% each. But the Trinity doctrine clearly states that all 3 are 100% God. If you say that each is 100% then you end up with 300%.

You cannot describe your teaching and it is beyond logic.

Why teach a faith that is illogical? How are you suppose to get men to believe when it is not reasonable?

You could say that God is beyond our understanding and that would be true. But that is not on trial here.

The Trinity doctrine is a doctrine that developed over time to explain God's nature. So if the doctrine or model is illogical, then it has failed and you need to go back to the drawing board.

However I can save you going back to the drawing board. Instead let scripture be the basis of your doctrine. That way you can remain in the truth.

June 21, 2007 at 12:33 pm#56118

Cult Buster

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ June 21 2007,16:59)

Quote (acertainchap @ June 21 2007,02:26)

There is one true God made of three distinct seperate parts. The Holy Spirit dwells within God the Father and God the Son, and most probably everything else including ourselves.

Is Jesus God Or does Jesus have God without measure?

Let us allow the scriptures to answer that question.

Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

MATTHEW 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1 TIMOTHY 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Compare
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
With (John the baptist announcing Jesus)
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Compare
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
With
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

June 21, 2007 at 1:25 pm#56122

kenrch

Participant

Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

In the form of God Not God but in God's form. You are in God's form being in His image.

Jesus the expressed IMAGE of the Father. Sure the Son is a chip off the BIG block but is the Son the Father?

We are adopted but Jesus is the real thing, being the only begotten of the Father.

Jesus is so far above me that YES He is my God but He is not the Father. HE is the Father's Son

CB am I your brother in the Lord? OR because I don't believe exactly as you do am I lost as Tim2 has said.

I believe all who believe that Jesus is the Son of God and died for my sins are my brethren. Either you will be teaching me or I will be teaching you in the millennium either way none are lost! AMEN?

Joh 1:12

(ASV) But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

(CEV) Yet some people accepted him and put their faith in him. So he gave them the right to be the children of God.

(DRB) But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

(ESV) But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

(GNB) Some, however, did receive him and believed in him; so he gave them the right to become God's children.

(GW) However, he gave the right to become God's children to everyone who believed in him.

(KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

IHN&L,

Ken

*1Jo 4:21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.*

June 21, 2007 at 1:38 pm#56123

kenrch

Participant

I love all who are sincere Christians and I certainly don't believe because one is deceived God will burn His child. This is what IMHO is what the millennium is for. Satan will be bound so as not to confuse anyone. For me (as I said) it's a matter of who will be teaching who. It shouldn't be hard to learn all what will happen is that Jesus will say either you or I were correct. I'm ready to swollow my pride IF I'm wrong, are you?

IHN&L,

Ken

June 21, 2007 at 4:35 pm#56131

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

You say…

Quote

However I can save you going back to the drawing board. Instead let scripture be the basis of your doctrine. That way you can remain in the truth.

So when are you gonna start?

Again, here is your delimma!

God is One.

Yet you say there is another “being” that was with him.

Your doctrine calls him “a god” or “a divine one” who God made all things through!

Your doctrine miss quotes John 1:1

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was “a” god.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was divine.

Look, here is the true interpretation…

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375

t8. Your doctrine does not align with the Monotheistic Hebrew scriptures.

There is no other “god” beside him t8.

Look…

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

You call God a liar when you say some other being was beside him other than God.

Look again…

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

How do you explain this t8.

Oh and dont forget that God made all things “Through himself”.

Romans 11:36
For of him, and through (dia) him, and to him, *are all things*: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Do you see how scripture corrects you?

You should not offend God by saying that there is any other being beside him!

There is One God.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

One Spirit, Three persons, One God!

Your Henotheistic belief is simply a sister to the Arians and JWs!

June 21, 2007 at 8:48 pm#56137

NickHassan

Participant

Hi W,
You say
“One Spirit, Three persons, One God!”
Is this written
or did you deduce it.

Have you gone back to three deities after only espousing two?

July 2, 2007 at 3:46 pm#57529

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2007,08:48)

Hi W,
You say
“One Spirit, Three persons, One God!”
Is this written
or did you deduce it.

Have you gone back to three deities after only espousing two?

There is only “One God”. Since we know that God is Spirit and there is only “One Spirit” and the Spirit is God and Jesus is that Spirit, and that “God alone” created all things, and that By Jesus “All' things were created and without him was not anything created that was created then we know that Jesus is God!

July 2, 2007 at 4:42 pm#57533

TimothyVI

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 03 2007,03:46)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2007,08:48)

Hi W,
You say
“One Spirit, Three persons, One God!”
Is this written
or did you deduce it.

Have you gone back to three deities after only espousing two?

Hi worshippingJesus.
There is not one spirit there are billions of them.
There is only one spirit of God.
Where does it say that Jesus is that spirit?

Tim

July 2, 2007 at 5:07 pm#57534

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 03 2007,04:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 03 2007,03:46)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2007,08:48)

Hi W,
You say
“One Spirit, Three persons, One God!”
Is this written
or did you deduce it.

Have you gone back to three deities after only espousing two?

Hi worshippingJesus.
There is not one spirit there are billions of them.
There is only one spirit of God.
Where does it say that Jesus is that spirit?

Tim

1 Cor 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Rev 22:11
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Phil 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord(Kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord(Kurios) is, there is liberty.

1 Cor 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus (Yeshua)Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Tim, do you believe there is more than one Spirit that we have recieved?

These verses say there is only “One Spirit” which is the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Jesus!

July 2, 2007 at 5:41 pm#57537

TimothyVI

Participant

Hi WorshippingJesus,

I guess what I was thinking was that God gave each of us a spirit which gives us life.
That spirit, even though from God then becomes our individual spirit.

I must admit that I hadn't given a whole lot of thought to this so let me study the scripture
that you provided.

Thanks,

Tim

July 2, 2007 at 7:33 pm#57549

kenrch

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 03 2007,03:46)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2007,08:48)

Hi W,
You say
“One Spirit, Three persons, One God!”
Is this written
or did you deduce it.

Have you gone back to three deities after only espousing two?

“…and the Spirit is God and Jesus is that Spirit,…”

Jesus is the Holy Spirit? Then where is the third person?

“By Jesus “All' things were created and without him was not anything created that was created then we know that Jesus is God!”

WJ God said…the Word…..and there was light.

If the son of man was God then His sacrifice is void because He would not be human.

Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus humbled himself not accepting any special gift as being the Word but rather became as you and I “in sinful flesh born under the law” the likeness of men.
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,
Fashion:
G4976
σχῆμα
schēma
skhay'-mah
From the alternate of G2192; a figure (as a mode or circumstance), that is, (by implication) external condition: – fashion.

Phi 2:8 And being found in the same Fasion [ circumstance] as a man……

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Was the Word who became flesh rich? YOU BET! BUt he denied any special treatment and emptied Himself of that privilege becoming in the same circumstances as we were born in.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The word became as ALL men a little lower than the angels.
Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The Word was made as a MAN in God's image but lower than angels just as ALL men are!

Jesus had the Spirit without measure…He wasn't the Holy Spirit. If Jesus was the Holy Spirit then what happened to the Son of man? You see what I mean?

Jesus, Son of man, was full of God the Spirit. God's Spirit is now in ALL His children.

Now, I don't understand. Where is the third person?

July 2, 2007 at 7:53 pm#57558

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ July 03 2007,07:33)