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Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2007,11:43) Hi W,
No Jesus is the Son of God. He is Lord of lords, and God the Father is his Lord and God.
NHSo Jesus is Lord of Lords, and the Father is Lord?
Is Jesus Lord of the Father?
I thought the Lord our God is one Lord?
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: *The LORD our God is one LORD*:Zech 14:9
And *the LORD/YHWH* shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall *there be one LORD, and his name one*.Who is this King of Kings and Lord of Lords? And what is his name?
The name above all names…
*Yeshua which means; YHWH is salvation, Jesus, the Lord from heaven, counselor, Emmanuel-God with us, the Mighty God, the great I AM, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the first and the last, the Word of God, the Lion of Judah*.
The one who sits on the throne with the Father and is worshipped!!!
Hi W,
Nonsense.
Why continue to insult both God and His Son?
There are many Lords of lords as a lord is anyone in any authority.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2007,16:00) Hi W,
Nonsense.
Why continue to insult both God and His Son?
There are many Lords of lords as a lord is anyone in any authority.
NHNonsence? Is there any thing in my post unscriptural?
Should you insult me because I speak the truth?
Please show me where my error is NH.
Why accuse me of insulting God by speaking the truth?
Hi W,
Scripture can be used to insult God.
Do not be among them
1Kings 18
” 1And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth.2And Elijah went to shew himself unto Ahab. And there was a sore famine in Samaria.
3And Ahab called Obadiah, which was the governor of his house. (Now Obadiah feared the LORD greatly:
4For it was so, when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.)
5And Ahab said unto Obadiah, Go into the land, unto all fountains of water, and unto all brooks: peradventure we may find grass to save the horses and mules alive, that we lose not all the beasts.
6So they divided the land between them to pass throughout it: Ahab went one way by himself, and Obadiah went another way by himself.
7And as Obadiah was in the way, behold, Elijah met him: and he knew him, and fell on his face, and said, Art thou that my lord Elijah?
8And he answered him, I am: go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.
9And he said, What have I sinned, that thou wouldest deliver thy servant into the hand of Ahab, to slay me?
10As the LORD thy God liveth, there is no nation or kingdom, whither my lord hath not sent to seek thee: and when they said, He is not there; he took an oath of the kingdom and nation, that they found thee not.
11And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.
12And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth.
13Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD's prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?
14And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here: and he shall slay me.
15And Elijah said, As the LORD of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, I will surely shew myself unto him to day.
Ahab is the lord of Obadiah, who also fears The Lord and he also calls Elijah his lord.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2007,16:15) Hi W,
Scripture can be used to insult God.
Do not be among them
1Kings 18
” 1And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth.2And Elijah went to shew himself unto Ahab. And there was a sore famine in Samaria.
3And Ahab called Obadiah, which was the governor of his house. (Now Obadiah feared the LORD greatly:
4For it was so, when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.)
5And Ahab said unto Obadiah, Go into the land, unto all fountains of water, and unto all brooks: peradventure we may find grass to save the horses and mules alive, that we lose not all the beasts.
6So they divided the land between them to pass throughout it: Ahab went one way by himself, and Obadiah went another way by himself.
7And as Obadiah was in the way, behold, Elijah met him: and he knew him, and fell on his face, and said, Art thou that my lord Elijah?
8And he answered him, I am: go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.
9And he said, What have I sinned, that thou wouldest deliver thy servant into the hand of Ahab, to slay me?
10As the LORD thy God liveth, there is no nation or kingdom, whither my lord hath not sent to seek thee: and when they said, He is not there; he took an oath of the kingdom and nation, that they found thee not.
11And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.
12And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth.
13Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD's prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?
14And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here: and he shall slay me.
15And Elijah said, As the LORD of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, I will surely shew myself unto him to day.
Ahab is the lord of Obadiah, who also fears The Lord and he also calls Elijah his lord.
NHThis dosnt show me where my post insults God or what is unscriptural about my post.
You didnt even address the post or any of the scriptures I posted.
Yet you still accuse me of insulting God!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 16 2007,15:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2007,11:43) Hi W,
No Jesus is the Son of God. He is Lord of lords, and God the Father is his Lord and God.
NHSo Jesus is Lord of Lords, and the Father is Lord?
Is Jesus Lord of the Father?
I thought the Lord our God is one Lord?
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: *The LORD our God is one LORD*:Zech 14:9
And *the LORD/YHWH* shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall *there be one LORD, and his name one*.Who is this King of Kings and Lord of Lords? And what is his name?
The name above all names…
*Yeshua which means; YHWH is salvation, Jesus, the Lord from heaven, counselor, Emmanuel-God with us, the Mighty God, the great I AM, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the first and the last, the Word of God, the Lion of Judah*.
The one who sits on the throne with the Father and is worshipped!!!
NHHere it is again!
Where is it unscripural and how does it insult God?
Hi W,
Your God is far too small, in the image of anyone.
To suggest our Almighty God is subject to anyone, even His son, is nonsense and an insult to Him.
His kind and generous revelation of Himself in His glory through His Son should not be taken lightly.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2007,17:00) Hi W,
Your God is far too small, in the image of anyone.
To suggest our Almighty God is subject to anyone, even His son, is nonsense and an insult to Him.
His kind and generous revelation of Himself in His glory through His Son should not be taken lightly.
NHExcuse me!
Where did I suggest the Father is subject to the Son?
Hi W,
You asked
“Is Jesus Lord of the Father?”
Not a statement but a question as you say.
Sorry. But I hate the way God is treated by some, but clearly that does not include you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2007,17:29) Hi W,
You asked
“Is Jesus Lord of the Father?”
Not a statement but a question as you say.
Sorry. But I hate the way God is treated by some, but clearly that does not include you.
NHThanks! opology accepted!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 17 2007,12:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2007,17:29) Hi W,
You asked
“Is Jesus Lord of the Father?”
Not a statement but a question as you say.
Sorry. But I hate the way God is treated by some, but clearly that does not include you.
NHThanks! opology accepted!
and ontology accepted too.
Question:
Is Word the name of Jesus before He became flesh?
Was His name Michael? OR was He the WORD?
Hi kenrch,
Do we know?
The Word surely is not a name.
Michael is the name of an angel.
The monogenes son is not an angel.Nick and t8,
Have you read Athanasius? I'm reading his “Orations against the Arians” now, and I feel as though you would both agree with his initial starting points for understanding the Son, and that he might explain the things you agree with in a way that would allow you to see how the Son is (still) God. Just a suggestion.
Tim
When the Roman Empire started to fall apart, the strongest united thread in the Empire in that time was Christianity. It was everywhere and therefore important to the emperor that he control this religion to keep control of his empire and to help it stay together.
Constantine then set about to change times and rules and he made Sunday the day of worship for Christians. Sunday was named after the sun god. This stunned Christians but kept the heathens happy.
In short, part of the church not only went after other lovers including Rome, but some actually married Rome instead of keeping themselves for Christ. They became the harlot. Not all of course married Rome.
Athanasius teachings were used by Constantine as his version of Christianity. The persecution of Christians against Christians who didn't hold Athanasius's teachings begun around this time and the system we see today came from these foundations. This persecution persists to this very day and is even evident in these forums.
But as the true flock, we should not follow any man. We do not follow Constantine, Athanasius, Arius, or the Pope.
Christ is our shepherd and we are his bride. We are virgins awaiting the coming of our bridegroom.
If we are inside the harlot, we need to come out of her immediately. Be not lead away by Athanasius. He through the authority of the emperor, laid a stumbling block that many to this day haven't overcome.
Quote He through the authority of the emperor, laid a stumbling block that many to this day cannot overcome.
And I suppose by the authority of the Emperor he exiled himself 5 times? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_of_AlexandriaSemi-arianism became the law in the Roman Empire for 50 years after Nicea. The doctrine of Nicea survived in spite of persecution from the Roman Emperors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Sirmium
But I was just trying to make a helpful suggestion. I think you would get a lot out of reading Athanasius.
Tim
No problem Tim2.
You brought up Athanasius and I put in my 2 cents worth. That was all. Yes it may prove useful to read his stuff if only to learn history and then judge it in hindsight by its fruit.
Yes it is true that Arius also became flavor of the month/year/decade(s). The point is that one version of Christianity was enforced by law at the expense of other views. When a new emperor came in, he changed things to suit. So it is obvious that the work of men (not Christ) was in action.
This forum for example could not have existed (if we ignore the fact that the Internet hadn't been invented yet). There was no room for debate and correction using scripture. It was whatever the emperor decided.
Things got so bad that true faith morphed into superstition because they didn't love the truth and these superstitions became traditions which in turn gave birth to the dark ages. Once scripture was taken away, there was no way for men to know that these superstitions and traditions were not the true faith because they had no way to check, confirm, or rebuke such things. Scripture enables us to do this.
So here we are today struggling with the things that were sown back then. But on a positive note, we should be thankful that we can debate things and check what people teach, against/with scripture. We have certain other men in history to thank for that privilege. We can also be thankful that God has always made his spirit available to those who seek and love the truth.
Anyway, I guess we are digressing from the topic of this discussion.
t8
Quote Hi kenrch,
Do we know?
The Word surely is not a name.
Michael is the name of an angel.
The monogenes son is not an angel.John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..
The Word is Jesus our God.
Jesus' name is also called “The Word of God” “Almighty God” and “the Great God”.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;Jesus the Word of God, is the Almighty God, and our Great God
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