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Quote (t8 @ April 22 2007,21:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2007,23:01) If you are so sure your writtings are inspired then why would you write this in yoiur rebuttal…
To WorshippingJesus.I spoke the truth when I said that.
Given more time I know that God could have shown me. It wouldn't have been hard, I just needed to read it with more time. God speaks to us when we read his truth. But you still need to give God the space to speak in our lives.
I gave the answer before allowing God to show me due to the pressure of men and their traditions. I gave the answer quicker than I would have liked to stop you guys from whining. That is the truth.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
That seems to be the case with you guys. Whatever I do, it is not good enough. But what you do to me was already done to Christ the Lord.
Your fruit shows what manor of man you are. You love to accuse and you are harsh with your judgement toward me. All this because I have rightly rejected a doctrine that was developed hundreds of years after the last book in the bible was written.
t8You are just to proud to admit that it was not a time issue.
Please stop making this excuse or show us where there was pressure.
Here is the conversation agian t8.
Posted: April 02 2007,16:44 Page 24 t8s proof text # 1 I said…
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You agreed to a three day time period.You posted and Is 1:18 replied.
Then he posted and about 5 days later you say…
Is 1:18 is willing to give you extra time to reply and then you come back to your proof text rebutting the the rebuttal totally ignoring his proof text and diverting attention back to yours.
I was under the impression as well as others I think, that you were to rebutt Isaiahs proof text. That was what the extended time was about!
Was'nt it?
Posted: April 03 2007,03:14 page 27 t8s proof text #1 I said…
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t8I dont care about the three days and Im not saying that you have sinned.
What bothers me is that you took the time and then went back to your proof text, totally ignoring his.
Can you see how I would get upset?
Posted: April 07 2007,05:00 page 29 t8s proof text #1 I said…Quote
T8, no one even cares about the 3 days. Isaiah was willing to give you all the time you needed.
Posted: April 08 2007,04:21 page 32 t8s proof text #1 I said…Quote
In fact here is the last thing I said to you on this…
Here is my last word to you on this.
I wish you the very best in your walk with God and pray that God will bless you and yours abundantly with his truth and Love.
I sincerely pray that everyone on this board will see and know more truth including my self.
Someday we will all come together in unity even if its on the other side.
Does this match what you say…Quote
Maybe you didn't read WorshippingJesus post(s) but he was throwing accusations at me regarding this time issue. I was simply pointing out the truth that some things in life have a greater priority than debating here.But he kept right on with it. This is why I spoke about it. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time with such trivia.
Not true t8 and you know it.
t8, if it wasn't for your dedication AND time – there would be no forum for men to accuse you, and to show their wisdom
I assume you have a family? Kids? A life?
So, thank you for taking time to participate in these debates, and for your humble position.
God respects those who are contrite at heart, and who tremble at his Word (holy fear for getting things wrong).
Isaiah 66:2
“….This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word.”Ignore the monkey's on your back. And thanks again for your time here, and all that you do. My life is richer for having HeavenNet.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 24 2007,03:56) t8, if it wasn't for your dedication AND time – there would be no forum for men to accuse you, and to show their wisdom I assume you have a family? Kids? A life?
So, thank you for taking time to participate in these debates, and for your humble position.
God respects those who are contrite at heart, and who tremble at his Word (holy fear for getting things wrong).
Isaiah 66:2
“….This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word.”Ignore the monkey's on your back. And thanks again for your time here, and all that you do. My life is richer for having HeavenNet.
not3He continues to say there was pressure for time and my post to him shows there was no pressure.
So you side with him if you want.
Monkey see, Monkey do!
Hi W.
You say
“What bothers me is that you took the time and then went back to your proof text, totally ignoring his.”Then you say
“Can you see how I would get upset?”
No.
You are not Is 1.18.
We are not employed to be accusers of the brethren.Monkey see, Monkey do!
*************************WJ, you make me laugh. I'm not “siding” with anyone, silly. I am simply saying that it takes a lot of time (I'm assuming) to maintain a website such as this. And people, in general, were giving him a bad time for a time constraint. I mean, what's the big deal? Sometimes I think we just want to argue about anything
Why not open a debate and give 30 DAYS in which to respond? I've no idea what t8 does for a living, but I know that sometimes I am called out of town unexpectedly, and there would be no way I could agree to a 3-day turn-around on a post. Maybe something came up? Maybe his dog died? Maybe his mother has cancer? Who knows?
Grace extended – words of encouragement – brotherly love – these are the more excellent choices!
It's really not my place to correct anyone. I just wish I saw more encouragement among the brothers; it's disheartening to me to hear you guys go at it sometimes. I took a little break away from the boards for a while because it got to be discouraging instead of encouraging.
WJ, I know it did your heart good for Nick to say, “Good points.” You commented on it and I could feel you smiling through the post. I was even uplifted by the fact that Nick extended that to you
It feels good to receive encouragement, and a little help up, or even to stand once in a while. God bless you brothers.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,06:45) Hi W.
You say
“What bothers me is that you took the time and then went back to your proof text, totally ignoring his.”Then you say
“Can you see how I would get upset?”
No.
You are not Is 1.18.
We are not employed to be accusers of the brethren.
NHAccuser of the brethren, LOL.
Read this post and see who is accusing who…
T8 said…
Quote
If you look at what I wrote. I said that “if God inspired my writing”. It wasn't a statement to say that he absolutely did.Then you say if God inspired me do I think the opposite for Isaiah.
Well we know that truth comes from God and lies come from the Father of lies and there is no truth in him.
Now men can be inspired by either and in a lifetime both at different times. Peter is a good example of this.
I claim to speak the truth yes, but I do not claim to be perfect, all knowing, and beyond making mistakes. I have made plenty of mistakes in my life. I also do not believe that Isaiah (the member not the biblical writer) speaks the truth, rather he speaks the words of men. Rarely have I heard him speak the truth. Quoting a scripture is not what I am talking about. I am talking about his conclusions.
I use scripture to prove my words and he uses a mixture of scripture and creeds/philosophy as any cult does . He also likes big words as philosophers often do, I am not against them per se, but feel that the truth is important enough to make it as clear as possible to all and that using them for prides sake is not a good reason.
I believe that those who try and preserve the traditions of men do so because of pride. But a person who loves the truth will except truth even if the whole world is against it. And we know that the whole world is under the sway of the evil one.
I am not interested in trying to prove that I am better than Isaiah or he is better than me because that would be foolish pride talking. But you asked for my opinion, I gave it. It is what I believe. It has nothing to do with reputations or pride.
I believe that Isaiah doesn't speak the truth and pride is what stops him from seeing the simple truth from scripture.
God reveals things to the innocent/children and we should accept the Kingdom of God like an innocent child. But not all do that, especially Pharisees.
However, Paul was once a Pharisee and a persecutor of the Church, so I do see that it is possible that someone like Isaiah could be made blind in order for him to see. So I respect him for his potential.
Whos is the accuser here?
Its seems that when t8 makes these kinds of character attacks that it is ok.
But if a Trinitarian speaks against t8 in anyway then he is the “Persecuted saint”, and woe be to us for daring to say anything against him cause we would be accusing Christ and becomming an accuser of the brethren.
This is the same man that referred to me being a pig.
Hogwash.
WJ, you take things way to personal (like me).
So now you've been called a pig, and a monkey…..and you're still here taking the abuse! Ha!
I didn't mean to refer to YOU only as being the “monkey on his back” – I meant in general, brother. You are not the only one giving t8 a hard time, are you?
I respect what you all have to say. My main thrust was that I was hoping for some more grace extended between all of you debating this issue. It just makes it nicer for those of us who are listening to see that you are treating eachother as you would want to be treated. That's all.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,08:08) Hi W,
You have not explained why something said to Is 1.18 makes YOU upset.
NHWhy does this matter to you?
I defend and stand by the truth which I think Isaiah is a teacher of.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 24 2007,07:50) WJ, you take things way to personal (like me). So now you've been called a pig, and a monkey…..and you're still here taking the abuse! Ha!
I didn't mean to refer to YOU only as being the “monkey on his back” – I meant in general, brother. You are not the only one giving t8 a hard time, are you?
I respect what you all have to say. My main thrust was that I was hoping for some more grace extended between all of you debating this issue. It just makes it nicer for those of us who are listening to see that you are treating eachother as you would want to be treated. That's all.
not3You say…
Quote
I respect what you all have to say. My main thrust was that I was hoping for some more grace extended between all of you debating this issue. It just makes it nicer for those of us who are listening to see that you are treating eachother as you would want to be treated. That's all.Then why didnt you give some encouragement to Isaiah who is the one being attacked and tell him not to worry about the monkeys on his back, like t8 and David and NH Etc, Etc, Etc.?
This is a sincere question. Was your motive to side with t8 because he is Non-Trinitarian?
And I believe you did mean to refer to me being the monkey on his back since I am the one challenging him on his false statements.
In my post as you can see I extended grace to him.
I said…
Quote
Posted: April 07 2007,05:00 page 29 t8s proof text #1 I said…QuoteT8, no one even cares about the 3 days. Isaiah was willing to give you all the time you needed.
Posted: April 08 2007,04:21 page 32 t8s proof text #1 I said…Quote
In fact here is the last thing I said to you on this…
Here is my last word to you on this.
I wish you the very best in your walk with God and pray that God will bless you and yours abundantly with his truth and Love.
I sincerely pray that everyone on this board will see and know more truth including my self.
Someday we will all come together in unity even if its on the other side.
But I dont see the same grace and courtesy extended to Trinitarians.So I refuse to let him continue with his miss-representation toward Isaiah and my self!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,08:34) Hi W,
He is able to take care of himself so do not get upset on his behalf.
NHI am full aware that Isaiah is able to take care of himself.
I was upset because of the way t8 handled the debate at that point in time. And again it had nothing to do with time.
Hi W,
Trinitarianism is not a religion.
It is not a denomination.
It is not the body of Christ.
It includes catholics and various protestants who have murdered each other for their individual differences for centuries.
It is as divided and diverse a group as ever could be found who privately scorn each other's beliefs but here they NEVER correct one another.
It is as if the thing that unites them is to be against US.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,08:51) Hi W,
Trinitarianism is not a religion.
It is not a denomination.
It is not the body of Christ.
It includes catholics and various protestants who have murdered each other for their individual differences for centuries.
It is as divided and diverse a group as ever could be found who privately scorn each other's beliefs but here they NEVER correct one another.
It is as if the thing that unites them is to be against US.
NHCheck your history, Arians were also guilty of mudering Trinitarians. Millions of Trinitarians died because of there faith and are still dieing because of their faith.
“Interestingly Constantine's son sided with the Arians and exiled Athanansius for his beliefs in the Trinity…. eventually the northern Germanic tribes, also Arians, sacked Rome and persecuted trinitarians until they eventually became trinitarians themselves….. “Constantius was pro-Arian in his leanings and took an active part in the affairs of the Christian church — convening one council at Rimini and its twin at Seleuca, which met in 359 and 360.” (Wikpedia)
I suppose you are one that believes that current white Americans are guilty of the murder and rape of slaves centurys ago.
Heck, if you were able to check your geneology back far enough you would probably find some murderers in your blood line.
So your argument is a straw.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,08:51) Hi W,
Trinitarianism is not a religion.
It is not a denomination.
It is not the body of Christ.
It includes catholics and various protestants who have murdered each other for their individual differences for centuries.
It is as divided and diverse a group as ever could be found who privately scorn each other's beliefs but here they NEVER correct one another.
It is as if the thing that unites them is to be against US.
NHBTW.
The Pharasees and Sadusees of Jesus day were well taught in the Hebrew scriptures, and yet they were guilty of crucifying Jesus.
Does this mean the truth that they held found in the Hebrew scriputes was not still the truth?
Hi w,
The scripture spoke of Christ but they did not hear the message.
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;They at least knew Who God was.
They just knew nothing of the Son of God and had made Satan their father.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,09:22) Hi w,
The scripture spoke of Christ but they did not hear the message.
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;They at least knew Who God was.
They just knew nothing of the Son of God and had made Satan their father.
NHYou didnt answer the question.
Did the truths that they believed concerning the Messiah coming still remain as truth even though they killed the Messiah?
The scriptures have been used by wicked men for lots of evil purposes, but that dosnt nulify the truth.
So again trying to attach the murders of Professed Christians on either side dosnt change the truths found in Gods word.
So attaching such to a Trinitarian is a straw.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,09:22) Hi w,
The scripture spoke of Christ but they did not hear the message.
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;They at least knew Who God was.
They just knew nothing of the Son of God and had made Satan their father.
NHYou say…
Quote
They at least knew Who God was.
They just knew nothing of the Son of God and had made Satan their father.HUH? They knew God but made satan their Father.
They didnt know who God was at all, or they wouldnt have crucified Jesus.
Jn 8:19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,09:50) Hi W,
They thought Jesus was God and wanted to kill him.
That problem has never gone away.
NHNo they didnt think Jesus was God or they wouldnt have killed him.
The didnt like the fact that Jesus claimed to be God, the Lord from heaven, the one before Abraham, the I AM, the Son of God, which were terms to them that meant he was claiming to be equal to God.
They were right that Jesus made those claims, thats why they cried blasphemy and wanted to crucify him, because they didnt believe him.
But John did! And you should too.
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