Trinity – t8's proof text #1

[charity]

and then I considered maybe

this is better suites WJ

1 Cor. 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is christ, and the head of God is christ.

WorshipingJesus Is IT NOT less confussing now to just read a clear scripture that puts us all in to line and makes sence?

1 Cor. 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The head bone connected to the neck bone,
The neck bone connected to the back bone,

GOD BLESS YOU

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (charity @ April 05 2007,08:35)

and then I considered maybe this is better suites WJ 1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is christ, and the head of God is christ. WorshipingJesus Is IT NOT less confussing now to just read a clear scripture that puts us all in to line and makes sence? 1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. The head bone connected to the neck bone, The neck bone connected to the back bone, GOD BLESS YOU

Charity

Yes Jesus the Word/God took on the likness of sinfull flesh and was born a man also!

Remember, he has *ALL* authority and power at this time.

[charity]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 05 2007,23:30)

Quote (charity @ April 05 2007,08:35) and then I considered maybe this is better suites WJ 1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is christ, and the head of God is christ. WorshipingJesus Is IT NOT less confussing now to just read a clear scripture that puts us all in to line and makes sence? 1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. The head bone connected to the neck bone, The neck bone connected to the back bone, GOD BLESS YOU Charity Yes Jesus the Word/God took on the likness of sinfull flesh and was born a man also! Remember, he has *ALL* authority and power at this time.

Hi worshipingJesus

Confusion here for Christ said he was the father and the father was in him;

Have not Christ root in him self; for when a tree is cut down to the roots it grows again looks different in its new glory from how it used to look; but it still remains the same seed or even soul new prepared body even vine?

Jesus is sending an his Angel to you to you to tell you that his root is not God but in fact God has done created him from his father David
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

In a few words He said now you have me, and I take you to my father
In whom He came from into the world again. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

That you to will be born of a good seed not bad; and any without root within him turns away offended from I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. And makes his root God.
Mat 13:21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Being offended that his root is his father David and he is the offspring of David  yet when it is seen that God did away with the first to make way for the second 1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Which David said of himself in the psalms that he should appear Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, And when he came in volume of Book he said sacrifice and offering you did not require but a body hast thou prepared for me.

David has many children made of flesh makings; but he has only one Son bearing his roots as his offspring that is Christ
Of whom you sucsessfully peirce David as the roots as he proclaimed in his soul in the psalms before the time; having not returned to the Son roots finding the Son of God that was first received the vow that we shall make men in the our Image.
The banquet begins
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

And having seen how Christ appeared a second time for us all from his roots he was done away with the curse to all men; again  we have the second man from the heavens the first of the New creation born of God  who said he was a King made lowly and poor; for they new not his roots that he had grown again from; He said I am the resurrection of Life; Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet He has risen from the grave of the womb of woman  shall we let him live as the sure mercy of David
I take you to my father; but the Nations refused his father and cast his crown to the ground in this they deny the second man coming and set another coming seeing the scripture needs to be accounted for the Christ to appear twice; God without seeing the work that God has done; and forsaking search for themselves to even have root and seed within ones self that even a whole kingdom may appear from the roots of where created from.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,10:58)

Quote (t8 @ April 02 2007,09:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 30 2007,01:32) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 29 2007,06:23) I haven't seen a reasonable argument for the Trinity. When the facts are known, that argument doesn't stack up. I use to believe that doctrine but after a time I knew deep down in my heart something wasn't right with it. From that time God has shown me scripture after scripture that pulls that doctrine apart. Even the scriptures that Trinitarians use are often used incorrectly and if the scripture can be interpreted their way, you can bet your bottom dollar it can also be interpreted other ways. After years of looking into this, my personal conclusion is this. If we believe as Paul instructed that there is one God the Father, then there is no contradiction in scripture. If we believe in the Trinity, then you can make 10 to 20 scriptures work, but you break hundreds of others. Try these links for in depth studies on what I am saying. Scriptures that are used to support the Trinity doctrine 100 verses that show God and Jesus to be different. t8 Words with no scriptural proof to refute the scriptural truths set before you. 100 verses not enough then? t8 Your 100 verses prove nothing except that Jesus is the Son of God. Trinitarians believe he is the Son of God. We believe all those verses. How about the many verses that say Jesus is God, or the 100s that implys he is God? Do you believe those verses? No. Yet you wont even give a clear statement as to what you do believe concerning those versus.

Read them again or at least a selection of them.

E.g.,

[Proclaimer]

To WorshippingJesus.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,10:45)

t8 Condemnation? LOL! I simply point out the truth about the debate and now you cry “Condemnation” and suddenly become the righteous persecuted saint. You miss lead and thien accuse me and Is 1:18 of sin. Thats condemnation!

Condemnation is when you condemn someone for what they have done. You are obviously doing that. Don't pretend you are not, it is obvious. If you are not, then you won't mind admitting that you understand my reasons or at least respect them.

But I truly do not believe that I have sinned in this regard. In fact I put my family first which is required of a righteous man. Jesus saved a man on the Sabbath because it was the right thing to do. David ate the bread from the altar, I didn't post within 3 days due to family commitments.

You can say that I am a bad person for not posting within 3 days, but I had good reasons for not doing that. In fact I would hate to think what you would think if I told you that I had an overdue Library book once. Would that cost me the death penalty in your view?

You have to accept people have good reasons why they can't make appointments sometimes. I am sure that you have been late to a dinner, or late to work for traffic reasons or whatever? Yet you probably said at the dinner date that I will be there at … and you may have signed a contract with your employer that said I will start work at…, yet we know that there are always times when we can't make it. Could be you needed to help someone, witness to someone, you could have a family issue to deal with, could have been a crash on the motorway that led you to be 15 minutes late at work. I am sure that you understand what I am saying and can think of many occasions in your own life where there were good reasons for not making something.

But maybe it is possible that you attack me or condemn me for not posting within 3 days because you cannot attack the words and scripture I have spoken regarding your Babylonian doctrine and the truth that the Father is the one true God. So like the Pharisees you sought opportunity to attack my character. But let's face it, you go on as if I have done wrong. Wrong is what sin is, therefore you are saying that I am sinning. That is how I see it.

But if you aren't condemning me, then am I to assume that you are understanding as to my reasons or at least respectful of them? In other words you agree that the quality of the answer is more important than the timing, or you realise that sometimes more important things pop up and must be given priority. But somehow I think that you are taking this as an opportunity to put the boot in so to speak.

But that is OK, you show your true colours and what manor of man you are. The truth is what these forums are for and if that purpose was served to show us what manor of man you are, then so be it.

I personally do not think that the Spirit of Grace leads people to persecute others over such things and I personally would rather you attend to your family or other important matters rather than try and reach a deadline for posting here. In fact such a deadline isn't really that important anyway. It's not like the world is going to end if you post a few days late. I know that I wouldn't speak bad or talk to you in a condemning way if you were late to an appointment.

In fact not only do I understand that things like this happen often, but I wouldn't even talk about it with you if it was between you and someone else because it wouldn't be my business. So why have you stuck you nose in when this was between me and Isaiah?

At least Isaiah has extended his courtesy regarding this matter. If anything, I give him a point for that.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,00:44)

t8 What kind of crap is this? You agree to certain rules and then change in the middle of the game. You say… You agreed to a three day time period. You posted and Is 1:18 replied. Then he posted and about 5 days later you say… …………………….. Is it just me, or does it seem like Is 1:18 just got snowed?

This is what I am talking about WorshippingJesus.

Look at your attitude. It is condemning.

BTW, crap means shit and if that isn't condemning then what is it? An insult?

[Not3in1]

WJ writes:
Remember, he has *ALL* authority and power at this time.
***********************

BUT, remember that Jesus has a sign of “authority” on his head. And the head of Christ is…..God.

If Christ is “fully God” in ANY WAY, he cannot have a sign of authority over his head. Plain and simple. This cannot be refuted with SCRIPTURE.

Jesus will eventually turn everything over to the Father so that he can be all in all. We all know this. However, for NOW, not only does he have all power as you have pointed out…………but he has a sign of authority OVER HIM. His judgements are just because why? Because he listens to his Father!

If Jesus was “fully” God considering all that Charity has pointed out, and what I have pointed out here – then I am only left to assume that the kind of God that Jesus could be, would not be the God of the scriptures, but a God who is MAN-MADE. An idol.

[Not3in1]

We're off to the ocean this weekend, so I will be away from this board…..I look forward to reading responses when I return, and answering (if any) when I return.

[Worshipping Jesus]

[/quote]

Quote (t8 @ April 06 2007,22:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,10:58) Quote (t8 @ April 02 2007,09:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 30 2007,01:32) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 29 2007,06:23) I haven't seen a reasonable argument for the Trinity. When the facts are known, that argument doesn't stack up. I use to believe that doctrine but after a time I knew deep down in my heart something wasn't right with it. From that time God has shown me scripture after scripture that pulls that doctrine apart. Even the scriptures that Trinitarians use are often used incorrectly and if the scripture can be interpreted their way, you can bet your bottom dollar it can also be interpreted other ways. After years of looking into this, my personal conclusion is this. If we believe as Paul instructed that there is one God the Father, then there is no contradiction in scripture. If we believe in the Trinity, then you can make 10 to 20 scriptures work, but you break hundreds of others. Try these links for in depth studies on what I am saying. Scriptures that are used to support the Trinity doctrine 100 verses that show God and Jesus to be different. t8 Words with no scriptural proof to refute the scriptural truths set before you.   100 verses not enough then? t8 Your 100 verses prove nothing except that Jesus is the Son of God. Trinitarians believe he is the Son of God. We believe all those verses. How about the many verses that say Jesus is God, or the 100s that implys he is God? Do you believe those verses? No. Yet you wont even give a clear statement as to what you do believe concerning those versus. Read them again or at least a selection of them. E.g., Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, Now replace the word “God” with the word “Trinity”. It doesn't work does it? God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.

t8

Again these scriptures do not prove Jesus is not God.

They simply show that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son.

Paul almost always couples the Father and Jesus this way in his salutations and validictions.

I believe the reason he did this is so that men would not think there is more than one God.

Example…

Tts 1:4 reads
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Now if Paul would have said…

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and “God” the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Then it could be taken as Polytheism.

But also notice how this could be read.

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, “from God”,(who is)

the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

See how one comma can change the meaning.

The problem that you have is these scriptures do not say Jesus is not God.

But there are scriptures that do, that are not ambiguous.

Now if you say he is “A” God then the scriptures are broken.

So, again your scriptures do not disprove the Deity of Yashua.

You say…

Quote

Now replace the word “God” with the word “Trinity”.

This is a straw. First of all you are placing a plural noun on a singular noun.

Secondly you are leaving Christ in the sentence when he is part of the trinity.

Tell you what to be fair lets look at it another way.

Since God Is Spirit, lets use a Singular Noun” in place of God and see if it makes sence.

Grace and peace to you from (Spirit) our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

We always thank (Spirit), the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and (Spirit) our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,

Grace, mercy and peace from (Spirit) the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love.

But thanks be to (Spirit)! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Spirit), who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in (Spirit); trust also in me.

May the (Spirit) of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep,

You see t8, you play these little “Logical” word games with people to coerce the week and simple to follow your game.

All it is to me is weak tactical methods to promote your Henotheistic veiw which is unscriptural.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ April 06 2007,23:05)

To WorshippingJesus. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,10:45) t8 Condemnation? LOL! I simply point out the truth about the debate and now you cry “Condemnation” and suddenly become the righteous persecuted saint. You miss lead and thien accuse me and Is 1:18 of sin. Thats condemnation! Condemnation is when you condemn someone for what they have done. You are obviously doing that. Don't pretend you are not, it is obvious. If you are not, then you won't mind admitting that you understand my reasons or at least respect them. But I truly do not believe that I have sinned in this regard. In fact I put my family first which is required of a righteous man. Jesus saved a man on the Sabbath because it was the right thing to do. David ate the bread from the altar, I didn't post within 3 days due to family commitments. You can say that I am a bad person for not posting within 3 days, but I had good reasons for not doing that. In fact I would hate to think what you would think if I told you that I had an overdue Library book once. Would that cost me the death penalty in your view? You have to accept people have good reasons why they can't make appointments sometimes. I am sure that you have been late to a dinner, or late to work for traffic reasons or whatever? Yet you probably said at the dinner date that I will be there at … and you may have signed a contract with your employer that said I will start work at…, yet we know that there are always times when we can't make it. Could be you needed to help someone, witness to someone, you could have a family issue to deal with, could have been a crash on the motorway that led you to be 15 minutes late at work. I am sure that you understand what I am saying and can think of many occasions in your own life where there were good reasons for not making something. But maybe it is possible that you attack me or condemn me for not posting within 3 days because you cannot attack the words and scripture I have spoken regarding your Babylonian doctrine and the truth that the Father is the one true God. So like the Pharisees you sought opportunity to attack my character. But let's face it, you go on as if I have done wrong. Wrong is what sin is, therefore you are saying that I am sinning. That is how I see it. But if you aren't condemning me, then am I to assume that you are understanding as to my reasons or at least respectful of them? In other words you agree that the quality of the answer is more important than the timing, or you realise that sometimes more important things pop up and must be given priority. But somehow I think that you are taking this as an opportunity to put the boot in so to speak. But that is OK, you show your true colours and what manor of man you are. The truth is what these forums are for and if that purpose was served to show us what manor of man you are, then so be it. I personally do not think that the Spirit of Grace leads people to persecute others over such things and I personally would rather you attend to your family or other important matters rather than try and reach a deadline for posting here. In fact such a deadline isn't really that important anyway. It's not like the world is going to end if you post a few days late. I know that I wouldn't speak bad or talk to you in a condemning way if you were late to an appointment. In fact not only do I understand that things like this happen often, but I wouldn't even talk about it with you if it was between you and someone else because it wouldn't be my business. So why have you stuck you nose in when this was between me and Isaiah? At least Isaiah has extended his courtesy regarding this matter. If anything, I give him a point for that.

t8

So pointing out error is condemning?

If you want to take it that way fine.

But I have done nothing but point out your error as you do mine all the time.

T8, no one even cares about the 3 days. Isaiah was willing to give you all the time you needed.

Now you can stick to your pride if you want and accuse us of condemning and sin, thats your perogative.

But I have no guilty conscience, and if you want to attack that then go ahead.

And as far as me sticking my nose in yours and Is 1:18s buisness, I thought this was an open forum.

Also your attending to your family is an honourable thing, but as Is 1:18 said, your yea should be yea and your nay should be nay, even if that means the loss of a little sleep.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ April 06 2007,23:38)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,00:44) t8 What kind of crap is this? You agree to certain rules and then change in the middle of the game. You say… You agreed to a three day time period. You posted and Is 1:18 replied. Then he posted and about 5 days later you say… …………………….. Is it just me, or does it seem like Is 1:18 just got snowed?       This is what I am talking about WorshippingJesus. Look at your attitude. It is condemning. BTW, crap means shit and if that isn't condemning then what is it? An insult?

t8

I think the condemnation is in your own conscience.

There is no condemnation here just pointing out the facts.

BTW Since when does the word “Crap” only mean “S–T”?

Crap – usually vulgar

Synonym – “defecate”, which means;

1 : to free from impurity or corruption
2 : to discharge from the anus

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/defecate

Funny, I have to explain “S–T” to you.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2007,05:10)

quote] Funny, I have to explain “S–T” to you.

Now that actually was a funny play on a colloquial statement
WorshippingJesus.
I didn't think that you had a sense of humor.

Tim

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 07 2007,06:56)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2007,05:10) quote] Funny, I have to explain “S–T” to you. Now that actually was a funny play on a colloquial statement WorshippingJesus. I didn't think that you had a sense of humor. Tim

Tim

Some times all you can do is laugh!

[charity]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2007,10:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2007,23:04) Hi W, You say “Compare this with Jn 17:3 and you have good hermeneutics!” Perhaps so. You may feel intellectually satisfied. But have you found truth? NH I have! You see like Thomas I bow down at Jesus feet and say “My Lord and My God”. And in giving this honour to the Son I give the same honour to the Father. How about you, have you bowed down to Jesus and accepted him as your Lord and God? Do you give the same honour to the Son as to the Father?

O worshipingJesus

The Lord of hosts sayeth Grab hold of him that is a Jew; go with him; God is with him; and yet only ten shall go with him as he lives his life?

Zec 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard [that] God [is] with you.

The Lord of hosts is set before him, even his roots of a tree in its glory that God is with.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

charity

[Proclaimer]

To WorshippingJesus.

As Christians we should be doing what 2 Corinthians 10:5 says:
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

It is not good to try and demolish people themselves, insult them, or say that what they do or did is crap. We are not suppose to judge in such a manner.

Let me remind you of what scripture teaches us:

Matthew 7:1
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Luke 6:37
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

So therefore it seems to me that for every appointment that you have been late to, God has the right to say it was crap. That is the measure you have set for yourself. As you can see, you are only making things harder for yourself and you are actually blessing me for the following reason:

Matthew 5:11

“Blessed are you when people insult you,

persecute you

and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

So every time you insult me and tell me that what I do or did was crap, you judge yourself and you bless me. And I also take comfort in the fact that this man who opposes me is a man who displays this kind of character. If you were a holy man, I would take your words more seriously, but we know them by their fruit don't we.

[Proclaimer]

Anyway can we now go back to the topic.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2007,23:42)

[/quote] Quote (t8 @ April 06 2007,22:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2007,10:58) Quote (t8 @ April 02 2007,09:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 30 2007,01:32) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 29 2007,06:23) I haven't seen a reasonable argument for the Trinity. When the facts are known, that argument doesn't stack up. I use to believe that doctrine but after a time I knew deep down in my heart something wasn't right with it. From that time God has shown me scripture after scripture that pulls that doctrine apart. Even the scriptures that Trinitarians use are often used incorrectly and if the scripture can be interpreted their way, you can bet your bottom dollar it can also be interpreted other ways. After years of looking into this, my personal conclusion is this. If we believe as Paul instructed that there is one God the Father, then there is no contradiction in scripture. If we believe in the Trinity, then you can make 10 to 20 scriptures work, but you break hundreds of others. Try these links for in depth studies on what I am saying. Scriptures that are used to support the Trinity doctrine 100 verses that show God and Jesus to be different. t8 Words with no scriptural proof to refute the scriptural truths set before you. 100 verses not enough then? t8 Your 100 verses prove nothing except that Jesus is the Son of God. Trinitarians believe he is the Son of God. We believe all those verses. How about the many verses that say Jesus is God, or the 100s that implys he is God? Do you believe those verses? No. Yet you wont even give a clear statement as to what you do believe concerning those versus. Read them again or at least a selection of them. E.g., Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, Now replace the word “God” with the word “Trinity”. It doesn't work does it? God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. t8 Again these scriptures do not prove Jesus is not God. They simply show that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son. Paul almost always couples the Father and Jesus this way in his salutations and validictions. I believe the reason he did this is so that men would not think there is more than one God. Example… Tts 1:4 reads To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Now if Paul would have said… To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and “God” the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Then it could be taken as Polytheism. But also notice how this could be read. To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, “from God”,(who is) the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. See how one comma can change the meaning. The problem that you have is these scriptures do not say Jesus is not God. But there are scriptures that do, that are not ambiguous. Now if you say he is “A” God then the scriptures are broken. So, again your scriptures do not disprove the Deity of Yashua. You say… Quote Now replace the word “God” with the word “Trinity”. This is a straw. First of all you are placing a plural noun on a singular noun. Secondly you are leaving Christ in the sentence when he is part of the trinity. Tell you what to be fair lets look at it another way. Since God Is Spirit, lets use a Singular Noun” in place of God and see if it makes sence. Grace and peace to you from (Spirit) our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We always thank (Spirit), the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and (Spirit) our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, Grace, mercy and peace from (Spirit) the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love. But thanks be to (Spirit)! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Spirit), who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in (Spirit); trust also in me. May the (Spirit) of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, You see t8, you play these little “Logical” word games with people to coerce the week and simple to follow your game. All it is to me is weak tactical methods to promote your Henotheistic veiw which is unscriptural.

Sorry but these scriptures state that the Father is God and Jes
us is Lord. But if Paul had a Trinitarian theology like you, surely he would say things like:

We always thank God, the Son and The Lord Father, when we pray for you, or

For us there is one God the son and one Lord Father.

Of course you do not see such language because Paul taught correctly that for US, there is One God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. So am I to take it that you are not included in US, and if you are, then why do you go against what US is suppose to believe?

[Proclaimer]

It seems obvious that all the defense against John 17:3 is only really denying that scripture.

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Do WorshippingJesus and Isaiah believe this scripture?

If so then you they shouldn't oppose me when I say that the Father is the true God and he sent his son because they are really opposing the one who penned the scripture and the one who inspired him to write it. I am only repeating it.

[Cult Buster]

The context makes it clear that Jesus’ statement about the Father being the only true God in no way was meant to deny that Christ is God as well, since he goes on to make claims that only God could make.

Jesus is simply addressing the Father for being the only true God since this is what he truly is, and yet we know from the same Bible that the only true God exists as Three Person. The Holy Scriptures plainly show that both the Son and the Holy Spirit are also truly God.

Therefore, since the one true God exists as a Godhead this means that the three Persons can be addressed as the only true God both individually and collectively. Putting it another way:

The Godhead is the only true God.
·Each specific member of the Godhead is the only true God.
·Therefore, the members of the Godhead are the only true God, whether individually or collectively.

This is why Jesus can speak of one member of the Godhead as the only true God without this implying that the other members are not God. To make this point more clear, notice what the inspired book of Hebrews says:

“But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.’ He also says, ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’” Hebrews 1:8-12

The Father praises his Son by calling him God, Lord, eternal King and for being the Creator and Sustainer of all creation! The same Scriptures teach that Jesus is the only sovereign Master and Lord:

“For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” Jude 1:4

Now does this mean that the Father is not God, sovereign Master, Lord, and the Creator of the heavens and the earth? The answer is obvious.

The Father, according to the Holy Bible, is just as much God, Master, Lord, and just as responsible for creating and sustaining the universe as the Son is.

In a similar way, the Son glorifying his Father as the only true God doesn’t mean that Christ was denying that he is full Deity as well.
In fact, a careful reading of John 17:3 helps to further confirm that Jesus wasn’t denying his absolute Deity:

“And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, AND (kai) Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

The Lord Jesus, by using the Greek conjunction kai in his prayer, makes himself the necessary object of the knowledge that leads to eternal life. In other words, Jesus basically made himself a coequal partner with God by claiming that eternal life is dependent on knowing both the Father and the Son.

The late renowned Bible expositor John Gill stated:

… The Arians and Unitarians urge this text, against the true and proper deity of our Lord Jesus, and his equality with the Father, but without success; since the Father is called the only true God, in opposition to the many false gods of the Heathens, but not to the exclusion of the Son or Spirit; for Christ is also styled the one Lord, and only Lord God, but not to the exclusion of the Father; yea the true God and eternal life; was he not, he would never, as here, join himself with the only true God; and besides, eternal life is made to depend as much upon the knowledge of him, as of the Father.

The reason of this different mode of expression, is owing to the character of Christ as Mediator, who is said to be sent by the only true God, about the business of man's salvation.

The grouping of the Father and the Lord Jesus as the necessary objects of salvation makes perfect sense in light of the Gospel’s teaching that Christ is God the Son and the Savior of the world:

[Cult Buster]

t8

Quote

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Do WorshippingJesus and Isaiah believe this scripture?

t8. Do you believe this scripture?

“For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” Jude 1:4

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[Author]

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