Trinity – t8's proof text #1

[Phoenix]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:41)

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:20) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:13) Hi WJ My idea/word is not based on this Forum or the website. I can tell you this though… You try and tell a non-believer about the Trinity and they'll tell you where to go. Which is why most church's won't ever start a conversation with a non believer beginning with the Trinity. Bit cunning in my opinion Hugs Phoenix p I disagree, most that know anything about scriptures believe God is three Persons. Sure the unbelievers dont want to believe it. But ask this question to a child. Who created all things? And the Reply will be God. Heb 1:10 and Pss 102 show that YHWY created all things who is Yeshua in the flesh. Hi WJ Of course a Child will answer with that. Ask the Child if they think Jesus is God. Or even better… Ask the Child if Jesus created all things. Trust me I know the answer to that… I have tested my son on it. Hugs Phoenix p I disagree. Most children pray to Jesus, havnt you noticed?

Yes they pray to Jesus but not on the basis of knowing that Jesus was the one that created everything

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You say
“I disagree, most that know anything about scriptures believe God is three Persons”

If only they could find scriptures that agree with them they could rest easy.

[Phoenix]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:39)

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:13) Hi WJ My idea/word is not based on this Forum or the website. I can tell you this though… You try and tell a non-believer about the Trinity and they'll tell you where to go. Which is why most church's won't ever start a conversation with a non believer beginning with the Trinity. Bit cunning in my opinion Hugs Phoenix p By the way would you let a non believe dictate to you who God is or his nature? Hugs

Hmm yes. Im not sure its called dictating though. He knows that I am not with the bible and scriptures.. but he still sends me stuff that he believes in and we both discuss it together. But like I told him…because it is not in the bible I choose to not believe it. But… it will be sitting at the back of my mind as if it could be a possibility that their perception might be correct. I definitely wouldnt guarantee it or give it any credit.

I also enjoy talking and watching about the Dalai Lama. Still, Im not guaranteeing that they are correct either

Hugs
Phoenix

Edit:

Quote

I am not with the bible and scriptures

Sorry I meant… I AM with the bible and scriptures. Also I forgot to mention that I AM an openminded person.

[Kyle]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 28 2007,23:57)

I AM with the bible and scriptures. Also I forgot to mention that I AM an openminded person.

And she's also God! She said it not once, but twice!

*don't get mad anyone, I'm just joking around here 😉

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2007,07:51)

Hi W, You say “This is why he is called the “Only Begotten” Monogenes, Unique Son of God. He was and is God in the flesh.” So we are talking about the SON of God?

NH

Yes God in the flesh.

So it is written!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:41) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:20) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:13) Hi WJ My idea/word is not based on this Forum or the website. I can tell you this though… You try and tell a non-believer about the Trinity and they'll tell you where to go. Which is why most church's won't ever start a conversation with a non believer beginning with the Trinity. Bit cunning in my opinion Hugs Phoenix p I disagree, most that know anything about scriptures believe God is three Persons. Sure the unbelievers dont want to believe it. But ask this question to a child. Who created all things? And the Reply will be God. Heb 1:10 and Pss 102 show that YHWY created all things who is Yeshua in the flesh. Hi WJ Of course a Child will answer with that. Ask the Child if they think Jesus is God. Or even better… Ask the Child if Jesus created all things. Trust me I know the answer to that… I have tested my son on it. Hugs Phoenix p I disagree. Most children pray to Jesus, havnt you noticed? Yes they pray to Jesus but not on the basis of knowing that Jesus was the one that created everything

p

No but probably on the basis that they are praying to God.

[Not3in1]

WJ,

Acts 20:28 has a footnote attached to it. Did you happen to notice that the little letter, “b” pulls your attention to the note at the bottom that reads: Many manuscripts “of the Lord.” Meaning, it was JESUS that bought them with his blood. Not God. That goes against your belief, does it not?

Question: Did GOD die?

The Word became flesh. A SON became flesh. WJ – do you have any sons? Did the seed you provided “become flesh?” It did. What is the difference between your boy becoming flesh, and God's boy becoming flesh?

1 Tim. 3:16 is also translated, “He was manifest….” Meaning, the Lord Jesus…..not GOD.

Again, Jesus is “in” me because I believe in him. I'm counted with him. It's an honorary “given” that I am “in” Jesus and he is “in” me. It's what Jesus prayed for in John 17. But we are going no where with this thread between you and me, so let's let it rest.

The unity that you speak of among Trinitarians is facinating to me. The reason it is so facinating is because I have all the prominant Trinitarians reading on my shelves (Swindoll, Lutzer, C.S. Lewis, McCdowell and others – and I can tell you that most all of them hold a unique view of the Trinity. They even disagree with eachother when it comes to writing a “definition” of the Trinity.

Children and the Trinity: I have this to say – when you have scholar after scholar writing books that are 3 inches thick about the Trinity, and at the end they say, “Its a mystery!” – how can you expect a child to understand such doctrine? That's ridiculous. They may pray to Jesus alright, they will even say Jesus is God, but if you ask them how much older God is than Jesus…………you'll get an interesting answer. Try it.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 29 2007,17:13)

WJ, Acts 20:28 has a footnote attached to it.  Did you happen to notice that the little letter, “b” pulls your attention to the note at the bottom that reads:  Many manuscripts “of the Lord.”  Meaning, it was JESUS that bought them with his blood.  Not God.  That goes against your belief, does it not? Question:  Did GOD die? The Word became flesh.  A SON became flesh.  WJ – do you have any sons?  Did the seed you provided “become flesh?”  It did.  What is the difference between your boy becoming flesh, and God's boy becoming flesh? 1 Tim. 3:16 is also translated, “He was manifest….”  Meaning, the Lord Jesus…..not GOD. Again, Jesus is “in” me because I believe in him.  I'm counted with him.  It's an honorary “given” that I am “in” Jesus and he is “in” me.  It's what Jesus prayed for in John 17.  But we are going no where with this thread between you and me, so let's let it rest. The unity that you speak of among Trinitarians is facinating to me.  The reason it is so facinating is because I have all the prominant Trinitarians reading on my shelves (Swindoll, Lutzer, C.S. Lewis, McCdowell and others – and I can tell you that most all of them hold a unique view of the Trinity.  They even disagree with eachother when it comes to writing a “definition” of the Trinity.   Children and the Trinity:  I have this to say – when you have scholar after scholar writing books that are 3 inches thick about the Trinity, and at the end they say, “Its a mystery!” – how can you expect a child to understand such doctrine?  That's ridiculous.  They may pray to Jesus alright, they will even say Jesus is God, but if you ask them how much older God is than Jesus…………you'll get an interesting answer.  Try it.

Not3in1

Still dont understand how Jesus is in you and God is in you,

But, I agree to move on.

BTW. You might want to check all of the other translations on Acts 20:28. Most all the major translations use the Word “Theos” for God.

It seems the corrupted version “ASV” is the only one that uses “Lord”.

See link…  http://bible.cc/acts/20-28.htm

Blessings!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Not3in1'

Not sure why the link didnt work.

Try again.

http://bible.cc/acts/20-28.htm

[Phoenix]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,16:50)

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:41) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:20) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:13) Hi WJ My idea/word is not based on this Forum or the website. I can tell you this though… You try and tell a non-believer about the Trinity and they'll tell you where to go. Which is why most church's won't ever start a conversation with a non believer beginning with the Trinity. Bit cunning in my opinion Hugs Phoenix p I disagree, most that know anything about scriptures believe God is three Persons. Sure the unbelievers dont want to believe it. But ask this question to a child. Who created all things? And the Reply will be God. Heb 1:10 and Pss 102 show that YHWY created all things who is Yeshua in the flesh. Hi WJ Of course a Child will answer with that. Ask the Child if they think Jesus is God. Or even better… Ask the Child if Jesus created all things. Trust me I know the answer to that… I have tested my son on it. Hugs Phoenix p I disagree. Most children pray to Jesus, havnt you noticed? Yes they pray to Jesus but not on the basis of knowing that Jesus was the one that created everything p No but probably on the basis that they are praying to God.

Hi

I have this little quote in my NIV bible, therefore would be quoted by an NIV writer, that says an 8 year old girl was asked –

Why was Jesus called the Word?
She said, “Because Jesus was all God wanted to say to us”

LOL, I honestly couldnt make a trinity out of that but you might.

Hugs
Phoenix

[Phoenix]

I wondered where this thread got to… I assume we are still allowed to post in it

[Proclaimer]

Sure.

The rules for this particular discussion was that I posted and Isaiah replied and then it was free for all.

Although these rules are not stipulated at the beginning of this particular discussion, in future they should/will be.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 30 2007,01:00)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,16:50) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:41) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2007,07:20) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 29 2007,07:13) Hi WJ My idea/word is not based on this Forum or the website. I can tell you this though… You try and tell a non-believer about the Trinity and they'll tell you where to go. Which is why most church's won't ever start a conversation with a non believer beginning with the Trinity. Bit cunning in my opinion Hugs Phoenix p I disagree, most that know anything about scriptures believe God is three Persons. Sure the unbelievers dont want to believe it. But ask this question to a child. Who created all things? And the Reply will be God. Heb 1:10 and Pss 102 show that YHWY created all things who is Yeshua in the flesh. Hi WJ Of course a Child will answer with that. Ask the Child if they think Jesus is God. Or even better… Ask the Child if Jesus created all things. Trust me I know the answer to that… I have tested my son on it. Hugs Phoenix p I disagree. Most children pray to Jesus, havnt you noticed? Yes they pray to Jesus but not on the basis of knowing that Jesus was the one that created everything p No but probably on the basis that they are praying to God. Hi I have this little quote in my NIV bible, therefore would be quoted by an NIV writer, that says an 8 year old girl was asked – Why was Jesus called the Word? She said, “Because Jesus was all God wanted to say to us” LOL, I honestly couldnt make a trinity out of that but you might. Hugs Phoenix

p

Yes I am sure that the writer is not a Trinitarian. But that dosnt surprise me coming from the NIV.

[Phoenix]

Hi WJ
Hah! I thought you might say that.

edit: In fact they have the word Trinity in the Index referencing to Matt 28:16-20; 2Cor 13:14; Titus 3:3-8 and Jude 20 -21

No John 1:1 however

Hugs
Phoenix

[Not3in1]

WJ – thank you for the Bible link on Acts 20:28.

There are quite a few other translations, however, that say, “Lord” instead of “God.” And that would make sense and be true with the rest of the Word, would it not? The Lord Jesus gave his blood for us. God did not die. Did God give his blood for us?

[NickHassan]

Amen,
God cannot die.

[Proclaimer]

If God (the Most High) died, then there would most likely be nothing. For all came from him and is sustained by him.

We had better hope that God cannot die. If he can then it means that those with eternal life can die later too.

A doctrine that says that God died, is simply outrageous as well as ridiculous.

[942767]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2007,17:59)

WJ – thank you for the Bible link on Acts 20:28. There are quite a few other translations, however, that say, “Lord” instead of “God.”  And that would make sense and be true with the rest of the Word, would it not?  The Lord Jesus gave his blood for us.  God did not die.  Did God give his blood for us?

Hi Not3in1:

I agree that God did not die.  He is immortal.  But I do believe that he washed us in His own blood in that Jesus' body is his own flesh and blood.  His Only Begotten Son.  And perhaps we can say that he tasted death in the person of his Son.  I am sure it was pure agony for him to have to allow his Son to go through all that he suffered in our behalf.

God Bless

[Not3in1]

Hi 94 –
It's an interesting belief you have, and I've heard this stated before. The problem is this: Jesus was his own person. Even Trinitarians to not want to “mix” the person who was Jesus with the other two persons of the triune God. They are seperate, yet One. So, this belief system really tugs at the heart of the trinitarian belief core. Either you believe Jesus is his own person, or you do not. You do have choose. If he is his own person – then it was JESUS who died. Not the FATHER.

If, however, you subscribe to the “half man/half God” belief system of who Jesus was, then I'm afraid anything goes! And yes, you can believe that somehow God shed his “sort of” blood through Jesus, and that God “sort of” was tempted through Jesus, and that God was “sort of” the sacrifice because man cannot be the total sacrifice, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on……..

When this makes you dizzy enough, you go back to the Word. The Word tells us that God cannot die. The Word tells us that God is not a man. The Word tells us that Jesus is his own person (with a mind, and a will, and emotions). The Word tells us that Jesus was tempted. The Word tells us that Jesus died. God could not have “tasted” death. This is a stretch, at best. God does not have blood. He is Spirit….the Word also tells us that.

If language and words have any meaning at all, let's take them at face value, and let's apply them logically (even if, and when, they do not fit our philosophies….). Keep it simple. Keep on track.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 30 2007,17:59)

WJ – thank you for the Bible link on Acts 20:28. There are quite a few other translations, however, that say, “Lord” instead of “God.”  And that would make sense and be true with the rest of the Word, would it not?  The Lord Jesus gave his blood for us.  God did not die.  Did God give his blood for us?

Not3in1

No. How do you get quite a few other translations translate it Lord.

The only one I know of is the corrupt ESV version.

Could you send those translations that are credible you are talking about?

[Author]

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