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Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 11 2007,19:20) Quote (t8 @ July 11 2007,11:25) I also think that he should cite his quote. He accused me of something I didn't do, while he did that thing himself. A double standard is a double standard and when someone points the finger it comes back at them. This is spoken of in scripture. (New Testament.)
Here is my source for that definition: http://grammar.uoregon.edu/nouns/predicateN.html
I have also amended the post to include the reference, even though in quoting a definition I was obviously not claiming it as an original thought. So I hope you are happy now…
T8, I can assure you that had you merely quoted a definition without referencing it I would not have made any fuss about it at all. And even though you basically ripped off whole paragrahs from this website – http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa029.htm – I hardly went overboard in taking you to task about it. This is what I wrote:
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 13 2007,23:26) BTW t8, I note that few of paragraphs in your article bear a striking resemblance to some of the material on this website. Curiously, there was no sign of an acknowledgement of your source.
Not exactly a nasty rebuke…..Anyway, this thread has become far more acrimoneous than it needs to be. I take some responsibility for that and hope that by no longer mentioning any indiscretions I will not further exacerbate the ill feelings.
Blessings
Hey thats great Isaiah.We should focus on scripture. Misrepresenting the opposing view doesn't do anything for anyone and wastes everyones time.
I think we should just focus on scripture and not worry about how people post, when they post, whether they quote, whether they answer all the questions in 1 post, etc.
The truth is what matters and people are different in the way they express themselves. We should both respect that.
Quote (t8 @ July 15 2007,21:56) Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 11 2007,19:20) Quote (t8 @ July 11 2007,11:25) I also think that he should cite his quote. He accused me of something I didn't do, while he did that thing himself. A double standard is a double standard and when someone points the finger it comes back at them. This is spoken of in scripture. (New Testament.)
Here is my source for that definition: http://grammar.uoregon.edu/nouns/predicateN.html
I have also amended the post to include the reference, even though in quoting a definition I was obviously not claiming it as an original thought. So I hope you are happy now…T8, I can assure you that had you merely quoted a definition without referencing it I would not have made any fuss about it at all. And even though you basically ripped off whole paragrahs from this website – http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa029.htm – I hardly went overboard in taking you to task about it. This is what I wrote:
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 13 2007,23:26) BTW t8, I note that few of paragraphs in your article bear a striking resemblance to some of the material on this website. Curiously, there was no sign of an acknowledgement of your source.
Not exactly a nasty rebuke…..Anyway, this thread has become far more acrimoneous than it needs to be. I take some responsibility for that and hope that by no longer mentioning any indiscretions I will not further exacerbate the ill feelings.
Blessings
Hey thats great Isaiah.We should focus on scripture. Misrepresenting the opposing view doesn't do anything for anyone and wasted everyones time.
I think we should just focus on scripture and not worry about how people post, when they post, whether they quote, whether they answer all the questions in 1 post, etc.
The truth is what matters and people are different in the way they express themselves. We should both respect that.
amenThe first of the 3 questions for Isaiah.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 13 2007,23:26) Q1) Can you explain how your notion that two divine beings existed “in the beginning” (i.e. pre-creation and before the advent of time) is compatible with biblical monotheism? [Note: Could you please address Isa 44:6-8 and Isa 46:9 as part of your answer]
To answer this I first need to say that I can only go by what scripture says. I wasn't there and nor were you. So if you want me to connect the dots then it would mean that I would have to base some of my answer on assumption, which I am not really willing to do.Scripture teaches me that God is obviously the oldest being in existence or the source of all (which I think is the same thing), and that God has a son. So it would make sense in the very meaning of Father and son that the Father is the source of the son.
However in John 1:1 it simply says that the Word was with God in the beginning. We know that God doesn't have a beginning and we know that before the creation of all things there was God and the Logos that was with him.
Now if the Logos was with God then did the Logos exist along with God forever before the beginning? Well that would seem to imply 2 Gods wouldn't it, and this kind of thinking cannot be backed up by scripture. It is really just a theory at best.
Nowhere is it written that I know of that the Word existed WITH God as another for all eternity WITH God or was eternally generated. It only says that in the beginning the Word was with God. So I think that God is interested in showing us things after that and not before, (at this stage – anyway).
I can certainly see from what I have read that all things could easily have been an attribute of God such as wisdom, truth, light, etc. Now if God begat another, then it would stand to reason that the begotten would have or even be those attributes of God. For what else and where else did God begat another? And if he begat his son through a woman, then he would certainly have the attributes of human nature too.
We know that all things that live begat after their own kind and if Jesus is the son of God, then he most certainly would be like God and share his attributes and one could assume, also his nature which we can also partake of.
I think the real point here is that we are not really told what it was like before creation and why should it? No creed in the world is sufficient in answering this because it didn't come from the spirit of God. We can only know as much about God as he chooses to reveal. We cannot fathom him or work him out, or use a telescope as a time machine to view him. For me to go back before creation, I could only rely on scripture and scripture is scant on this subject at best.
Even evolutionists are honest in that they may think they have all the answers or are at least on the right track as to explaining the origins of life, but when you ask them about the period before the universe, they acknowledge that they know nothing and that it is certainly possible there that the cause of all was God or a god.
Anyway, we are created beings and God speaks to us of things that are relevant to us. He hasn't inspired a Prophet or Apostle to write a book about what God was doing before he created the physical universe. The closest thing we have I think is John 1:1 which is a few sentences which by the way never mentions the so-called 3rd member the Holy Spirit. It also seems kind of funny to me that when it says “The Word was with God” that Trinitarians automatically assume that the Word was with the Father. But if there was a 3rd member around at that period and he is also God, then why don't they assume that the Word was with the Holy Spirit? Numerically speaking the 3rd member has as much chance as the first as the one who was with God.
Anyway, we know that God is the source of all including his son and even the Word who later became flesh and dwelt on earth who is the son.
Now if it is true that Yeshua is the greatest except for God himself, has the most authority except for God, is even the oldest except God, and if he came from God, then what kind of being would he have been and is. Well the answer is that he is probably the most like God.
So I think John 1:1 is saying that he is divine. I am open to being wrong. If he wasn't divine, then I will at least listen to what people say. Scripture will convince me, not creeds or vain imagination. Imagination isn't a bad thing, but what we imagine must be based on scripture otherwise it is vain imagination.
So where is it written that only God has or partakes of divine nature? Where does such a notion come from? I would suggest that the Trinity doctrine assumes a lot of things and from these assumptions it judges other people's views harshly and is even hostile toward any other view. But the point is that the Trinitarian point of view is only one of thousands (if not millions) of views about what God is like and yet it is logical to assume that of all the contradicting views out there, that only one or even none of them are correct.
For me it is scripture that has the truth about God. So this is where I prefer to stay and if scripture doesn't have the full answer, then it is most likely because it is not that important for me to know right now.
Isaiah. Certain things in life are a mystery and they are that way for a reason. If God allows us to glimpse a mystery, then we should never go beyond what God shows us because everything that we add (from our own understanding) will surely be a vain attempt.
So to answer your question I again point to the following order.
God > Christ > Man > Woman.
God is first and third is man.
That is 2 natures. Divine nature and flesh/human nature.
Christ seems to be somewhere in between God and Man.
Christ is called the son of God and the son of man. He seems to me at least to have partaken in both at different times.
So what kind of being is he? Well he is like God and he came in the likeness of men. And one day we will have a new body we will be like him. We will also be like the angels.
Anyway, we know that there exists today God > Christ/Word > Man > Woman
Before that there was only God > Christ/Word > Man
Before that there was only God > Christ/Word.
Before that?We are not told before that are we? So it is a mystery as far as I know. I know that certain creeds claim to have the answer, but on what authority? The authority of man and not God.
That is why I do not listen to such things.
Romans 16:25-26
25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey himQuote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2007,07:15) Quote (david @ July 14 2007,13:32) WJ, There is a thread somewhere on the NWT, if you like. If I remember correctly, you began attacking the NWT when you couldn't deal with other stuff I was saying.
Please feel free to attack in the appropriate thread.
DavidI will respond to your huge post later.
But I will say this…
The NWT is a corrupted version of the scriptures from hell!!
It has no credibility! Its translators were not qualified to translate Jack and Jill went up a hill in english!
Now you can paste this in your precious NWT thread if you like!
WOW.Where is the love, brother?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 16 2007,07:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2007,07:15) Quote (david @ July 14 2007,13:32) WJ, There is a thread somewhere on the NWT, if you like. If I remember correctly, you began attacking the NWT when you couldn't deal with other stuff I was saying.
Please feel free to attack in the appropriate thread.
DavidI will respond to your huge post later.
But I will say this…
The NWT is a corrupted version of the scriptures from hell!!
It has no credibility! Its translators were not qualified to translate Jack and Jill went up a hill in english!
Now you can paste this in your precious NWT thread if you like!
WOW.Where is the love, brother?
not3There is no Love kfor the NWT!
It is a corrupted version from hell!
IMO!
WJ,
I didn't mean for the book (NWT), I meant for your brother in Christ (David). Your last sentence is what I was referring to, not necessarily the context of what you were saying – we are all entitled, it seems, to our opinions.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 16 2007,16:37) WJ,
I didn't mean for the book (NWT), I meant for your brother in Christ (David). Your last sentence is what I was referring to, not necessarily the context of what you were saying – we are all entitled, it seems, to our opinions.
not3Did you ever get angry at your brother or kin, did you still not love them?
Let not the sun go down on your wrath.
Anger is not a sin. Hate is.
I dont hate David, I hate his bible!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 15 2007,11:15) Quote (david @ July 14 2007,13:32) WJ, There is a thread somewhere on the NWT, if you like. If I remember correctly, you began attacking the NWT when you couldn't deal with other stuff I was saying.
Please feel free to attack in the appropriate thread.
DavidI will respond to your huge post later.
But I will say this…
The NWT is a corrupted version of the scriptures from hell!!
It has no credibility! Its translators were not qualified to translate Jack and Jill went up a hill in english!
Now you can paste this in your precious NWT thread if you like!
The NWT is certainly from the depths of hell as is the Jehovah's Witness church. There are however some sincere folk within that sect and they need to “COME OUT OF HER”.See http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m
Turn up your computer sound for this one.
Compare
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD (Jehovah) shall be delivered:
With
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.Call upon the name of the Lord Jesus (Jehovah) and be saved
Dear Cult Buster;
Are saying that Jehovah is Jesus Christ? If yes, please read new testament again. He is the Son of God. If he is the Son of God, he cannot be God, too.
Mr. Steve
t8
Quote So I think John 1:1 is saying that he is divine. I am open to being wrong. If he wasn't divine, then I will at least listen to what people say. Scripture will convince me, not creeds or vain imagination. Imagination isn't a bad thing, but what we imagine must be based on scripture otherwise it is vain imagination. So where is it written that only God has or partakes of divine nature?
t8. Jesus is certainly divine because He is God. We can all be partakes of divine nature, but that does not make us divine like Jesus our God.
Jesus existed from eternity past so therefore He is God.
Psa 93:1 The LORD (Jehovah) reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD (Jehovah) is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Psa 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Back to the drawing board t8
Quote (Mr. Steve @ July 17 2007,14:09) Dear Cult Buster; Are saying that Jehovah is Jesus Christ? If yes, please read new testament again. He is the Son of God. If he is the Son of God, he cannot be God, too.
Mr. Steve
Hi Mr Steve.The Son of God is God. The Bible says so.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Hi Nick. Just accept what the Bible says. Don't fight against the truth.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Back to the drawing board again Nick
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 17 2007,10:16) t8. Jesus is certainly divine because He is God. We can all be partakes of divine nature, but that does not make us divine like Jesus our God.
Hi CultB.Back to the drawing board?
That is it right there. We shouldn't be drawing anything with our own hands. A triangle as representing the makeup of God is offensive.
It should be back to the bible.
OK, the bible says that we will be like Christ which is a mystery. Jesus will call us brothers. Brothers is a word used to describe 'like kind'. We don't call our pet dog a brother no matter how much we love him or how much a part of the family he might be. A pet dog isn't a brother because a beast is a different class to us.
Jesus is our brother and it is impossible to be a brother to God.
All that Jesus has comes from God. God is his source. Likewise the same can be said for us. All that we inherit that is good comes from God. He is called the Father for a reason.So Jesus is not the originator of spirit or divine nature. If he was given everything he has then he is a partaker or a receiver of these things. If he wasn't given something and always had it, then he is the originator. But the Father is the source of the son.
Hebrews 12:9
Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has GRANTED the Son to have life in himself.John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.Matthew 24:36
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Revelation 1:6
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.You see you are the one who says that there are 2 divine gods. I say that there is one and that this God shares and gives from himself because he is love and he is generous.
t8. Those scriptures are only in the context of Christs incarnation. Don't avoid the scriptures that proclaim that Jesus is God.
There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. Some myopically focus on Christ's incarnation as a man, yet they ignore the overwhelming evidence of His deity. When confronted with these truths they then try to “dance around” them.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Some on this forum just want to look at Bible verses that are in the context of Christ mission as Messiah but don't like when shown the multitude of scripture identifying Him as the divine Jehovah God. They wish that He will stay eternally incarnate. For some, this is willful blindness which is sin.
Jesus Christ is the creator, not a creature and will always be equal to the Father in this sense. Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man or within the context of He being Messiah and High Priest which is still continuing
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among usThere are some instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I.
In these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The phrase “O God” is a worshipful phrase indicating the reverence each Person of the Godhead have one for another. Each recognises the other as their God. Each are willing to submit one to the other.
Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn the character and humility of God.
Jesus said.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
The Pharisees understood that Jesus was claiming deity and equality with God, that is why they tried to stone Him.
Jesus could have told them that they misunderstood Him, but He didn't. Jesus knew that the Pharisees understood His assertion of deity and did not correct them.
Jesus could have said “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me. I was not blaspheming by claiming to be God.” But Jesus did not correct them, thus confirming His deity to them.
It seems that the Pharisees had better understanding of Jesus' words than many on this forum.
Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”, referring to Jesus.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man.
The Father would maintain the head position and He would become the central One to pray to. He does not minister to us in the direct way of the Son and Holy Spirit. He would not have the central focus to save mankind and to eventually be as highly exalted as the Saviour. He is self effacing in this respect.
Each member of the Godhead took on a position that was selfless to the extreme and thus revealing the character of God.
Jesus said
Luk 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
The right hand of power is metaphor meaning that all authority belongs to Christ. That is all authority. Can you imag
ine the Godhead relinquishing all their authority to a created being? Of course not! Jesus is Jehovah God.We can see how self effacing each Person of the Godhead is to be willing to submit one to the other.
We can now understand better Christ’s statement
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
We can stand in awe of the great love, humility and even servanthood of the Godhead.
The apostle Paul understood just who Jesus was when he wrote the following
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Paul had studied the scriptures that testified of Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.That is why Paul said
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
We sometimes see statements like
1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah.
In these instances Jesus was either encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is still continuing.1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
These verses and others have been utilized historically by the Arians (of whom Jehovah's Witnesses are a revival), to try to “prove” that Jesus is lesser than the Father and therefore not God in the flesh.
Upon closer inspection, however, a clearer picture emerges.
See the following.In 1 Cor 15:28, the subjection spoken of is that of the Son as incarnate, not the Son as Son in essence. While this verse tells us that God will be “all in all,”
Colossians 3:11 tells us that “. . . Christ {is} all, and in all.”
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Consider the verse
“it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell” (Col. 1:19)
In the KJV the words “the Father” are in italics which means that they were provided by the translators. There is no evidence that they belong there at all. There are no Strongs number because the words do not exist.
See the Literal Translation Bible
Col 1:19 because all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him,MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.
JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord(Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
·1 Timothy 2:3, “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;”
Who is this Saviour?
. Acts 13:23, “Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:”
· Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope, and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,Isa 42:20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 17 2007,10:01) Compare
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD (Jehovah) shall be delivered:
With
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
OT deliverance was from bondage by other peoples and their false gods. There was no concept of eternal life in the OT. Ask any Jew.Yeshua's salvation is of the soul. The bondage is that of sin. Two different types of salvation.
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