Trinity – Is 1:18's Proof Text #2

[Cult Buster]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2007,03:10)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 25 2007,16:21) Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Its in your bible t8, in fact I think its in most bibles. The bible also says that there is no God. Context is what is important and you ignore the message in the Book of John and isolate this particular text to portray a different meaning. That is deceptive is it not?

t8. If you were honest when you read scripture you would see the context. Instead you wallow in pretext.

The truth is in your face yet you choose error.
Instead of light, you choose darkness. Outer darkness!

Isa 9:6  For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

JOHN 5:17-18 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

MATTHEW 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1Ti 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Compare
Psa 45:6  Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre
With
Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Compare
Psa 41:13  Blessed be the LORD (Jehovah) God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
With
MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.

JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM   hath sent me unto you.

Compare
1 CHRONICLES 28:9 . . . the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts:
With
MATTHEW 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
MATTHEW 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, . . .
REVELATION 2:23 . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: . . .

Compare
DANIEL 9:9 To the Lord our God {belong} mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
LUKE 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
With
LUKE 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
MARK 2:5-10 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (6) But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, (7) Why doth this {man} thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Compare
Isa 40:3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
With
Mat 3:3  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Compare
1Sa 2:2  There is none holy as the LORD (Jehovah): for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35  And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
With
1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

PSALM 148:1-2 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights. (2) Praise ye him, all his angels : praise ye him, all his hosts.
HEBREWS 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

DEUTERONOMY 10:17 For the Lord your God {is} God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, . . . {cf. Ps 136:2-3, 1 Tim 6:15}
REVELATION 17:14 . . . the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: . . .{cf. Rev 19:16}

PSALM 62:12 . . . unto thee, O Lord, {belongeth} mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work. {cf. Is 40:10}
MATTHEW 16:27 For the Son of man shall . . . reward every man according to his works.

ROMANS 7:22 . . . the law of God . . . {cf. Ps 19:7}
GALATIANS 6:2 . . . fulfil the law of Christ.

ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of God. . .
+ROMANS 8:9 . . . the Spirit of Christ, .. .

*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord (Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
*LUKE 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
+LUKE 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
2 PETER 1:1 . . . God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Mat 1:21  And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins

*ISAIAH 40:10 Behold, the Lord God will come with strong {hand}, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward {is} with him, and his work before him.
2 THESSALONIANS 1:7-8 . . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Psa 50:6  And the heavens shall declare his righteousness; For God is judge himself. Selah
Psa 7:8  The LORD (Jehovah) shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
ECCLESIASTES 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether {it be} good or whether {it be} evil.
JOHN 5:22,27 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son . . . (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Act 7:59  And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60  And he kneeled down, and cried with a lou
d voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. (Stephen kneeling and praying to Jesus)

Phi 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Joh 7:42  Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8  Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ

2Pe 3:16  as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).

[Worshipping Jesus]

T8

You said…

Quote

Yet Jesus said “You are gods”. I suppose that he was wrong was he?

Are you serious? Do you think that Jesus is promoting Polytheism by quoting the Psalmist in Pss 82:6.

Pss 82:6 was a prophesy about wicked ungodly men. Jesus was rebuking them for their hypocrisy for accusing him for saying he was one with the Father therefore making himself equal to God, when their law said that those wicked men were gods.

If you beleve that Jesus is promoting Polytheism and believes that men are gods, then this is what you are saying of our Lord.

1. Jesus is a Polytheist and like the greeks he believed in other gods!

2. Jesus is ignorant of the Hebrew faith in only One God!

3. Jesus was ignorant of the Hebrew scriptures!

4. Jesus is promoting men calling men gods!

Do you think Jesus knew the following scriptures?

Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Exod 23:13
And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

So obviously your interpretation of what Jesus was saying in quoting Jn 10:34 and Pss 82:6 is not correct or you have a contradiction.

Can you give me an example where any of the Apostles of our Lord ever mentioned or called any being like an angel or a king or a man “a god” (theos) in a true sense? Henotheism is not found in the scriptures t8. What were called gods are not gods at all, but were false.

You said…

Quote

You differ with Jesus. He quoted this verse: Psalm 82:6 “I said, 'You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.' It is plain that you differ with Jesus. Look at Jesus words and then look at yours. In fact I will do it for you.

No. it is you who differs with Jesus and the Apostles. You accuse Jesus of Polytheism.

But the Hebrews didn’t believe like you t8.

I quote a previous post on another thread…

“Isa 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 45:14
… Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

So t8, based on the above scriptures do you insist that there is any gods in any sense?

Jer 2:11
Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

T8, you have a huge hole in your theology.

For you that there was someone beside the Father, who is in a sense god or divine yet the scriptures says there is “None Beside him”, and “none like him”.

You also claim that God created all things through this other being (which you have yet to classify what he is), called Jesus, when the Hebrew scriptures are clear that there is no other agent beside himself that created all things.

Look and see once again…

Jn 1:1
In the beginning “God” created the heavens and the earth!

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; *that stretcheth forth the heavens alone*; that spreadeth abroad the earth *by myself*;

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: *I am the LORD; and there is none else*.

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and *there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,

And yet we read by a strict Monotheistic Jew…

John.1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and *without him was not any thing made that was made*.

As clear as the nose on ones face!  

End of quote..

The Apostle Paul said…

1 Cor 8:
Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

So unless you believe that John and Thomas and Paul and the writer of Hebrews and others were calling Jesus a “so called god”, then your interpretation of Jn 1:1 and Jn 20:28 and Heb 1:10 and Jude 1:25 and Titus 2:13 and John 10:34 is wrong.

Ps 138:6
Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 24 2007,21:19)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 24 2007,18:46) I didn’t admit to any such thing! The greeks believed that there were many gods. In fact they believed men were gods. Sound familiar t8? It seems you believe like the Greeks. For you admit that men are gods. Yet, Paul says they are “So called gods, and not gods at all”. Yet Jesus said “You are gods”. I suppose that he was wrong was he? You differ with Jesus. He quoted this verse: Psalm 82:6 “I said, 'You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.' It is plain that you differ with Jesus. Look at Jesus words and then look at yours. In fact I will do it for you. Jesus Worshipping Jesus “You are gods”. All gods are not gods at all Hmmm you call yourself WorshippingJesus and yet you do not believe what he said. That seems strange doesn't it? Believe me when I say that we will all give an account before God and it will be more exposing than this. It is better to get our lives straight now so our judgement will be better.

t8

What do you think of what satan said…

Gen 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be **as gods**, knowing good and evil.

So why do you preach what satan preached?

This is what you are propagating that Jesus was saying when he was quoting Ps 82:6 which was about wicked men, not “True Sons of God”.

Also how about these sons…

Gen 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

What was called sons of God or gods were not sons or gods at all.

So tell us t8. Are you saying that when the scriptures call Jesus God (Theos) that this is what the Apostles are saying of Jesus, that he is “a god” (theos) like the wicked men in Pss 82:6?

You said…

Quote

Believe me when I say that we will all give an account before God and it will be more exposing than this. It is better to get our lives straight now so our judgement will be better.

Who made you a prophet and a judge over me or anyone that confesses and believes that Jesus is the Messiah and that he came and shed his presious blood for them and all those who will believe in him and his words to be saved?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 24 2007,21:25)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 24 2007,18:46) Nothing you say here t8 says the Word was born or had a beginning. Actually it is more like that there is nothing to say that the Word was with God for eternity past as Trinitarians assume. Although I am not sure of your stance as your Trinity doctrine is a little different to the official one. You seem to have a customised one and then you believe that your one is the correct one and everyone should adhere to it. It is obvious God has attributes and that it is easy to accept that God changes not. But to believe that the Word was with God for eternity, well it isn't written is it? It is also not written that the Angel Gabriel had a beginning, but what can I deduce from that? Some things are not written, but that doesn't mean that you can add your own interpretation.

t8

Then you should not lead people to believe that the word of God had a beginning.

While it is true there is no scriptures that I am aware of that says the spoken word is from everlasting, logic would say that God must have always had a word since the word of God contains all of his wisdom and knowledge and since the word of God is the truth.

So is there ever a time that God was without truth or wisdom or knowledge? I doubt it!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 24 2007,21:35)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 24 2007,18:46) You throw out these little formulas of yours insisting that it has to be the way you say and that everyone who dosnt accept your formula is proud, yet you give us no clear scriptures to support your theory. Your formula only speaks of the order of things and not the nature of things. Scriptures t8? Formula? ha ha. Your kidding right? If I said “The substance God contains 3 persons” would you call that a formula? Well that is what you say. Here is the formula again: And if that isn't an idol, then what is it?

t8

Somehow I knew you were eventually gonna resort to this. For this is your way of debate. When you have nothing else, presto.

Rather than answering my questions or giving me scriptures you allude to some chart and call it an idol.

No t8 that is not my Idol.  

By the way, I have another question which I dont expect you to answer, but here goes anyway.

Do you believe that God is substanceless?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 25 2007,23:10)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 25 2007,16:21) Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Its in your bible t8, in fact I think its in most bibles. The bible also says that there is no God. Context is what is important and you ignore the message in the Book of John and isolate this particular text to portray a different meaning. That is deceptive is it not?

t8

I think the context was exlained very well here…

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 25 2007,23:12)

Oh BTYW WJ. Am I to assume that you agree that you differ with Christ in the following? Jesus Worshipping Jesus “You are gods”. All gods are not gods at all

t8

Deception again. Jesus never said “You are gods”, did he? You can imply that if you want but you do the same thing that you accuse me of, adding to the scriptures. You are making inference.

Jesus is quoting the Psalmist!

Anyway, did Jesus agree with satan and your interpretation?

What do you think of what satan said…

Gen 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be **as gods**, knowing good and evil.

So why do you preach what satan preached?

This is what you are propagating that Jesus was saying when he was quoting Ps 82:6 which was about wicked men, not “True Sons of God”.

This is what Pss 82:6 says…

82:1
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

82:2
How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

82:3
Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

82:4
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

82:5
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

82:7
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Is Jesus preaching other gods t8?

Jer 2:11
Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

Exod 23:13
And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

Surely you dont believe our Lord is promoting Polytheism or Henotheism do you?

You are accusing Christ of breaking the 1st commandment if you believe this.

Exod 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

If Yeshua is not God but as one of these gods as you are tryng to say, then you break the 1st commandment by bowing down to him and calling him your Lord!

[charity]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 27 2007,19:40)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 25 2007,23:12) Oh BTYW WJ. Am I to assume that you agree that you differ with Christ in the following? Jesus Worshipping Jesus “You are gods”. All gods are not gods at all t8 Deception again. Jesus never said “You are gods”, did he? You can imply that if you want but you do the same thing that you accuse me of, adding to the scriptures. You are making inference. Jesus is quoting the Psalmist! Anyway, did Jesus agree with satan and your interpretation? What do you think of what satan said… Gen 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be **as gods**, knowing good and evil. So why do you preach what satan preached? This is what you are propagating that Jesus was saying when he was quoting Ps 82:6 which was about wicked men, not “True Sons of God”. This is what Pss 82:6 says… 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. Is Jesus preaching other gods t8? Jer 2:11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit. Exod 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Surely you dont believe our Lord is promoting Polytheism or Henotheism do you? You are accusing Christ of breaking the 1st commandment if you believe this. Exod 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. If Yeshua is not God but as one of these gods as you are tryng to say, then you break the 1st commandment by bowing down to him and calling him your Lord!

Never the less; Let us find ourselves comfortable with the fact of the gods; and become assured that men may know they are capable of becoming the idol they so desperately rejected as a thought once?
seen as it seems God has not reversed this disaster from the garden to now?
rejoice anyway!

Psa 136:1 ¶ O give thanks unto the LORD; for [he is] good: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.
Psa 136:2  O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. :8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

[Worshipping Jesus]

charity

You said..

Quote

Never the less; Let us find ourselves comfortable with the fact of the gods;

You can be comfortable with other gods if you want.

The scriptures says there is no other gods, but false gods and man made gods.

There is only One God, all others are not gods at al but “so called gods”!

[Mr. Steve]

WJ;

You forget John 20:28?

Steven

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 28 2007,06:39)

WJ; You forget John 20:28? Steven

mr steve

Thanks for reminding me…

God is One, yet plural.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

This was revealed to even Moses in the beginning!

Gen 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 …And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Jesus Spoke of the three with a singular name…

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

And we know what the name is that is given among men under heaven to be saved dont we?

Acts 4:11
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Jn 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

[charity]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 28 2007,10:28)

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 28 2007,06:39) WJ; You forget John 20:28? Steven mr steve Thanks for reminding me… God is One, yet plural. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This was revealed to even Moses in the beginning! Gen 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 …And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Jesus Spoke of the three with a singular name… Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: And we know what the name is that is given among men under heaven to be saved dont we? Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Jn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I’m afraid the gospel of John can cast a cloud of vexation over the mind of as all; WJ
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON is not really truthful; again the only writer to put the thought in our heads? the first begotten Son amongst many to come; Many shall obtain the Name of the Son of God; Jesus is the first to overcome; and also he is anointed to finish first; by over coming the second death, being the fist and last; Danial shall rise in his apointed lot of time; also begotten to return finishing the purpose of God after christ; it for us all to follow; Himself being first glorified from the Son of Man; but yet if you find yourself fatherless in seed then you hav forsaken the seed to complete; then even to become a strange god before Him without root within; mere beast; and in the end off no strange God shall stand before God; grace and mercy to you, to submit the will to transformation, as we all need to

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (charity @ Aug. 28 2007,10:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 28 2007,10:28) Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 28 2007,06:39) WJ; You forget John 20:28? Steven mr steve Thanks for reminding me… God is One, yet plural. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This was revealed to even Moses in the beginning! Gen 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 …And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Jesus Spoke of the three with a singular name… Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: And we know what the name is that is given among men under heaven to be saved dont we? Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Jn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. I’m afraid the gospel of John can cast a cloud of vexation over the mind of as all; WJ ONLY BEGOTTEN SON is not really truthful; again the only writer to put the thought in our heads? the first begotten Son amongst many to come; Many shall obtain the Name of the Son of God; Jesus is the first to overcome; and also he is anointed to finish first; by over coming the second death, being the fist and last; Danial shall rise in his apointed lot of time; also begotten to return finishing the purpose of God after christ; it for us all to follow; Himself being first glorified from the Son of Man; but yet if you find yourself fatherless in seed then you hav forsaken the seed to complete; then even to become a strange god before Him without root within; mere beast; and in the end off no strange God shall stand before God; grace and mercy to you, to submit the will to transformation, as we all need to

charity

So the Beloved disciple John is a liar?

He was an “Eye Witness”.  

Have you placed your self above the Holy Spirit which inspired the Apostle to write the Gospel of John the three epistles and the Apocropha?

[charity]

Actually the gospel John reminds of a parent that puts his 10 yr old child in a race against babies;
No I don’t think any disciple report can be compared to what is rising up and ordained of God; least it given the same as John was ever offered

A no I don't think the writer of Johns gospal is the Angel of Jesus
Perhaps more so John the baptist; whom came from the heavens as the sent Elijah; to pave the way

May not one hair on your HEAD perish WJ

[Cult Buster]

Charity

Quote

A no I don't think the writer of Johns gospal is the Angel of Jesus

What is “the Angel of Jesus” ??  

[charity]

Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 28 2007,23:47)

Charity Quote A no I don't think the writer of Johns gospal is the Angel of Jesus What is “the Angel of Jesus” ??

hehe I'll go figure

thanks CB

[Mr. Steve]

To all;

When Christ said “He that rejecteth me, rejecteth not me him who sent me” and “he that believeth on me, believes not on me, but on him who sent me”, and “he that receiveth me, receives not me, but him who sent me”, what was Christ saying? However you respond to me is how you are responding to the Father. So in essence when they crucified Christ they were crucifying God. With that in mind, Zech 12:10 can be fully understood without contradicting any of the truth revealed by Christ. Whatever is done to Christ is done unto God his Father.

Christ also gave an illustration in Matthew regarding whatsoever you do to these ye have done unto me. When did we visit you? When did we feed you? In as much as ye have done to the least of my brethren, ye have done unto me.

Take Care

Steven

[Mr. Steve]

Hi WJ;

John 20:29 says in part “…because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed.” Didn't Jesus teach that no man has seen God at anytime? So how can a grand conclusion be argued that verse 28 prior proves that Christ is Jehovah? Again, how can Christ be the fulfillment of the Seed of Abraham and also be the Father which made the promise? God didn't promise Abraham he was coming himself. Wasn't his promise that he would send his Son as a descendent in the flesh of Abraham? Just some things to consider.

Take Care

Steven

[charity]

Hi Mr. Steve I was thinking this?
Abrahams promise was only that of filling the earth; a repair from Adams filling the earth; as many as the stars of heaven; from him would come the sand of the sea to battle even; and a promised seed’ which; being one from the lion from the tribe of Judah which was not until well after Abraham; this one from the tribe of Judah prevailed to open what had been sealed in Abrahams promise and begin its process on earth; and he was given the covenant of all to be begotten lost souls; you can hear them in the heavens praising him; because he has begotten them back to God; these are those from before him; then in him the also the promise of the first born son comes to earth; that then God gave the command covenant of sure mercy that the souls shall live; as only the roots of the tree of Life; he was cut down by the curse from the garden a lamb to the slaughter doing all gods will on earth without receiving the promise to rise in that life time; for if there is no root within us we shall fall fatherless; Jesus had root within himself; so often the snare is that we have so many doctrines that ride over the top of David; they refuse him to come to the battle; cast his crown to ground; in this the tree of Life Jesus is hewn down in hope destroying the sure mercy of God; by holding no remembrance of how he redeemed the nations souls from Abraham to his time by his faithfulness Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

[Cult Buster]

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 29 2007,13:56)

Hi WJ; John 20:29 says in part “…because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed.”  Didn't Jesus teach that no man has seen God at anytime? So how can a grand conclusion be argued that verse 28 prior proves that Christ is Jehovah?  Again, how can Christ be the fulfillment of the Seed of Abraham and also be the Father which made the promise?  God didn't promise Abraham he was coming himself.  Wasn't his promise that he would send his Son as a descendent in the flesh of Abraham?  Just some things to consider. Take Care Steven

Mr Steve.

John 1:18 refers to The Father only, because men have seen Christ who is God.

Joh 6:46  Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

JWs say that Jesus is not God because no man has seen God, but men saw Jesus. In saying this, however, they miss the point of John 1:18. Here the term God is used in a restrictive sense in reference to the Father–just as it is used in reference to the Son at Isaiah 9:6. Context at Isaiah 9:6 reveals that God in that verse is the “child” who is born, the “son” who is given, yet this cannot be used to prove that the Father is not God. So, the fact that the title God is used specifically of the Father at certain other verses–such as John 1:18–cannot be used as an argument against the deity of Christ. It is the Father who “no man has ever seen.”

These verses are referring to God the Father because Thomas saw God the Son when  he exclaimed “my Lord and my God”

THE IDENTIFICATION of Jesus of Nazareth as the Jehovah of the Old Testament is readily established. Consider Isaiah's vision of the Lord as described in Isaiah 6.

Isa 6:1  In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isa 6:2  Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
Isa 6:3  And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isa 6:4  And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
Isa 6:5  Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts.

We have already established the fact that no man has seen the Father at anytime and therefore that the Lord whom Isaiah saw can have been none other than Jesus Christ.

TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ

[Author]

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