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Yes Nick, Jesus is the Son of God. Now don't you believe that the Son of God is God? What else could He be? The son of man is man, isn't he?
Hi Tim2,
I thought you said the Son of man was God?
Men too are sons of God.
Make up your mind as the logic is wearing thin.haha Nick you're funny. I hope you're also amused with these jokes.
But seriously, the Son of Man is God, as you say. I was referring more generally to any son of man. A son of man is man, right?
But I should know by now you're not going to respond to my questions, because that's not your job as an admin.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
You may love fiddling with the Word to confuse the simple ones but the millstone will be heavy.Luke 17:2
” It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumbleTo Tim2
Dont you think your attitude is unbecoming of a true believer in Christ, Nick Hassan has answered hundreds of questions even the most trivial ones, never getting angry, personal or sarcastic. This website is testamony to his indurance, patience and his love of God and his Son Jesus Christ. Thank you Nick for helping me to see the Truth. Tim2 go and read Prov 8:22-36 and Psalm 22, also read 1Corinthians 1:3-9Marthinus
marthinus
Quote To Tim2
Dont you think your attitude is unbecoming of a true believer in Christ, Nick Hassan has answered hundreds of questions even the most trivial ones, never getting angry, personal or sarcastic. This website is testamony to his indurance, patience and his love of God and his Son Jesus Christ. Thank you Nick for helping me to see the Truth. Tim2 go and read Prov 8:22-36 and Psalm 22, also read 1Corinthians 1:3-9Marthinus, if you believe that Nick has converted you to the truth, good luck with the scales.
As for Nick answering hundreds of questions; that's far fetched!
It is hard trying to get even one straight answer from him.
Quote Thank you Nick for helping me to see the Truth Now that's funny
So that you know that the Son of God is also God.
Mar 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mar 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
Even the Jews understood that the Christ, the Son of the Blessed was God, that is why they accused Jesus of blasphemy.
Jesus answered the high priest “I AM”, and claimed to be the Son of the Blessed, whom the Jews understood to be God. The high priest accused Jesus of blasphemy, because He claimed to be the Christ, the Son of the Blessed and because He used the name of God “I AM” as His own. When a man claims to be God it is blasphemy (John 10:33).
Mar 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
Jesus could have said to the high priest, “I wasn't blaspheming, you misunderstood me, I am not claiming to be God.” But He didn't correct the high priest because Jesus was in fact asserting His deity.
Jesus was accused many times of blasphemy, of making Himself God, but never once did He try to change their perception of Him claiming deity. Jesus was and is the self existent and eternal Jehovah God. The great I AM.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.
Hi Cult buster
In all honesty if you read Mark 14:61 The high priest asked Jesus whether he is the Son of the blessed One (I presume God is here the Blessed One) And Jesus answers him Yes I am (admitting that he is the son of the Blessed One) In verse 62 He (Jesus) also tells the high priest that he will SEE (the high priest and his co accusers) the Son of Man (whom I percieve to be Jesus) to sit on the right hand of Power (Right Hand of Power I percieve to be God) Now Can you honestly without any doubt say that Jesus said that he is God English is my second language and I certainly don't read it that way.
Marthinus
Hi Cult B
I asked you the other day to explain Psalm 22 (also the words Jesus quoted on the cross) Also Proverbs 8:22-36 Please explain these Scriptures from the Old Testament. You are referring to John 10:33 why don’t you read on in verse 36 Jesus clearly tells them what he said I quote from verse 36 “Because I said I am the Son of God” What do you read in these verses Jesus quite clearly does not say that he is God. Correct me if I am wrong. Jesus also explains himself in verses 34-35 saying “If he called them gods (Note small g not a capital G) to whom the words of God came (Capital G ie. God the Father) (and the scripture cannot be broken) do you say of Him (Jesus) whom the Father sanctified (What he implies is that they the Jews can call somebody god according to scripture to whom the word (small w ie not the same Word as in John 1:1) of God came. But here is Jesus sanctified and sent into the world by God calling him self the Son of God and they The Jews call that Blasphemy? see the comparison Jesus made. He is not saying at all that he is God he is however saying that he is the Son of God (I too believe what he says, that he is truly the Son of God)
Marthinus
Quote (Cult Buster @ May 15 2007,00:56) marthinus Quote To Tim2
Dont you think your attitude is unbecoming of a true believer in Christ, Nick Hassan has answered hundreds of questions even the most trivial ones, never getting angry, personal or sarcastic. This website is testamony to his indurance, patience and his love of God and his Son Jesus Christ. Thank you Nick for helping me to see the Truth. Tim2 go and read Prov 8:22-36 and Psalm 22, also read 1Corinthians 1:3-9Marthinus, if you believe that Nick has converted you to the truth, good luck with the scales.
As for Nick answering hundreds of questions; that's far fetched!
It is hard trying to get even one straight answer from him.
Quote Thank you Nick for helping me to see the Truth Now that's funny
So that you know that the Son of God is also God.
Mar 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mar 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
Even the Jews understood that the Christ, the Son of the Blessed was God, that is why they accused Jesus of blasphemy.
Jesus answered the high priest “I AM”, and claimed to be the Son of the Blessed, whom the Jews understood to be God. The high priest accused Jesus of blasphemy, because He claimed to be the Christ, the Son of the Blessed and because He used the name of God “I AM” as His own. When a man claims to be God it is blasphemy (John 10:33).
Mar 14:64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
Jesus could have said to the high priest, “I wasn't blaspheming, you misunderstood me, I am not claiming to be God.” But He didn't correct the high priest because Jesus was in fact asserting His deity.
Jesus was accused many times of blasphemy, of making Himself God, but never once did He try to change their perception of Him claiming deity. Jesus was and is the self existent and eternal Jehovah God. The great I AM.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.
Hi CB,
Do you agree with the High Priest at the trial of Jesus?
Would you have condemned the Master too?Marthinus,
Hi. You are right, I am becoming frustrated and angry toward Nick, which I shouldn't. I do feel that he usually doesn't answer my questions, or those of people who disagree with him. I'm glad that has not been your experience.
Tim
Tim2
Thanx for your posting I would just like to explain from my perspective I do not take away or add to any of the scriptures, I base my belief on what I read in the scriptures, as that is the only truth I can go by It is the blue print for my salvation and my hope in Jesus. I believe that the scriptures is only one aspect (a very imortant one) of being a Christian or being a believer. I too believe in a living God with whom I have a personal relationship on a daily basis, I believe that this relationship that I have with God was made possible through Jesus Christ by Him dying on the cross for my sins. I have experienced God on a daily basis in my life and my work, the changes that took place within my being after accepting Jesus Christ as my Saviour, the radical change of world view that is what afirms my faith in God and proves to me that He is real and that he loves me. Experiencing the Holy Spirit working in me, changing me, guideing me, teaching me, this real experience is often dificult to explain to non believers and we are often mocked by people of the world because of this change that happens when we turn to God through Jesus.marthinus
Quote (marthinus @ May 15 2007,07:47) Hi Cult buster In all honesty if you read Mark 14:61 The high priest asked Jesus whether he is the Son of the blessed One (I presume God is here the Blessed One) And Jesus answers him Yes I am (admitting that he is the son of the Blessed One) In verse 62 He (Jesus) also tells the high priest that he will SEE (the high priest and his co accusers) the Son of Man (whom I percieve to be Jesus) to sit on the right hand of Power (Right Hand of Power I percieve to be God) Now Can you honestly without any doubt say that Jesus said that he is God English is my second language and I certainly don't read it that way.
Marthinus
Hi Marthinus,The Jews many times sought to kill Jesus because they believed He was claiming to be God. When a man claims to be God it is blasphemy.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
Jesus understood why they were enraged at Him but He did not deny their accusations that He was claiming to be God.
Jesus could have said to them “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me, I wasn't claiming to be God.” But He didn't correct them, because He was God and He wanted them to know it.
The Jews understood that the Son of the Blessed was also God that is why they accused Jesus of blasphemy.
The picture of the ascended Christ “seated at the right hand of power” is a metaphor meaning that all authority is in Christ's hands. That is all authority.
Can you imagine the Godhead relinquishing all their power and authority to a created being. I cannot. Don't forget that Lucifer was the grandest of all created beings and look what happened.
Marthinus
Quote Hi Cult B I asked you the other day to explain Psalm 22 (also the words Jesus quoted on the cross) Also Proverbs 8:22-36 Please explain these Scriptures from the Old Testament.
Hi Marthinus. Do you believe that Proverbs 8:22-36 is referring to Christ?
The context clearly shows that the passage is referring to God's own eternal attribute of Wisdom: See the first verse.
Pro 8:1 Does not wisdom call? And does not understanding speak?
Marthinus.
With Psalm 22, we must consider it in the context of Christ's incarnation or His mission as Messiah. Please see the following which I have posted before. I hope that I have addressed all of your comments. CB.There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. Some focus on Christ's incarnation as a man, yet they ignore the overwhelming evidence of His deity.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Some on this forum just want to look at Bible verses that are in the context of Christ mission as Messiah but don't like when shown the multitude of scripture identifying Him as the divine Jehovah God.
Jesus Christ is the creator, not a creature and will always be equal to the Father in this sense. Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”.However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man or within the context of He being Messiah and High Priest which is still continuing
]Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
]Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
There are some instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I.
In these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom
The phrase “O God” is a worshipful phrase indicating the reverence each Person of the Godhead have one for another. Each recognises the other as their God. Each are willing to submit one to the other.
Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn the character and humility of God.
Jesus said.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
The Pharisees understood that Jesus was claiming deity and equality with God, that is why they tried to stone Him.
Jesus could have told them that they misunderstood Him, but He didn't. Jesus knew that the Pharisees understood His assertion of deity and did not correct them.
Jesus could have said “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me. I was not blaspheming by claiming to be God.” But Jesus did not correct them, thus confirming His deity to them.
Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”, referring to Jesus.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man.
The Father would maintain the head position and He would become the central One to pray to. He does not minister to us in the direct way of the Son and Holy Spirit. He would
not have the central focus to save mankind and to eventually be as highly exalted as the Saviour. He is self effacing in this respect.Each member of the Godhead took on a position that was selfless to the extreme and thus revealing the character of God.
Jesus said
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.We can stand in awe of the great love, humility and even servanthood of the Godhead.
The apostle Paul understood just who Jesus was when he wrote the following
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Paul had studied the scriptures that testified of Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.That is why Paul said
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ
We sometimes see statements like
1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah.
In these instances Jesus was either encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is still continuing.Thus, Jesus' office as Messiah and Mediator will cease in time, but not His Godhood, since Scripture teaches that He will be “all in all” just as His Father is.(Colossians 3:11)
MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.
JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord(Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;
Quote (Cult Buster @ May 16 2007,01:43) Marthinus Quote Hi Cult B I asked you the other day to explain Psalm 22 (also the words Jesus quoted on the cross) Also Proverbs 8:22-36 Please explain these Scriptures from the Old Testament.
Hi Marthinus. Do you believe that Proverbs 8:22-36 is referring to Christ?
The context clearly shows that the passage is referring to God's own eternal attribute of Wisdom: See the first verse.
Pro 8:1 Does not wisdom call? And does not understanding speak?
Marthinus.
With Psalm 22, we must consider it in the context of Christ's incarnation or His mission as Messiah. Please see the following which I have posted before. I hope that I have addressed all of your comments. CB.There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. Some focus on Christ's incarnation as a man, yet they ignore the overwhelming evidence of His deity.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Some on this forum just want to look at Bible verses that are in the context of Christ mission as Messiah but don't like when shown the multitude of scripture identifying Him as the divine Jehovah God.
Jesus Christ is the creator, not a creature and will always be equal to the Father in this sense. Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”.However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man or within the context of He being Messiah and High Priest which is still continuing
]Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
]Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
There are some instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I.
In these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom
The phrase “O God” is a worshipful phrase indicating the reverence each Person of the Godhead have one for another. Each recognises the other as their God. Each are willing to submit one to the other.
Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn the character and humility of God.
Jesus said.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
The Pharisees understood that Jesus was claiming deity and equality with God, that is why they tried to stone Him.
Jesus could have told them that they misunderstood Him, but He didn't. Jesus knew that the Pharisees understood His assertion of deity and did not correct them.
Jesus could have said “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me. I was not blaspheming by claiming to be God.” But Jesus did not correct them, thus confirming His deity to them.
Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”, referring to Jesus.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and
obeying the Father while living as a man.The Father would maintain the head position and He would become the central One to pray to. He does not minister to us in the direct way of the Son and Holy Spirit. He would not have the central focus to save mankind and to eventually be as highly exalted as the Saviour. He is self effacing in this respect.
Each member of the Godhead took on a position that was selfless to the extreme and thus revealing the character of God.
Jesus said
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.We can stand in awe of the great love, humility and even servanthood of the Godhead.
The apostle Paul understood just who Jesus was when he wrote the following
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Paul had studied the scriptures that testified of Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.That is why Paul said
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ
We sometimes see statements like
1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah.
In these instances Jesus was either encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is still continuing.Thus, Jesus' office as Messiah and Mediator will cease in time, but not His Godhood, since Scripture teaches that He will be “all in all” just as His Father is.(Colossians 3:11)
MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.
JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord(Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;
CBGood post.
41 scriptures in one exegesis.
Quote (Cult Buster @ May 16 2007,01:02) Quote (marthinus @ May 15 2007,07:47) Hi Cult buster In all honesty if you read Mark 14:61 The high priest asked Jesus whether he is the Son of the blessed One (I presume God is here the Blessed One) And Jesus answers him Yes I am (admitting that he is the son of the Blessed One) In verse 62 He (Jesus) also tells the high priest that he will SEE (the high priest and his co accusers) the Son of Man (whom I percieve to be Jesus) to sit on the right hand of Power (Right Hand of Power I percieve to be God) Now Can you honestly without any doubt say that Jesus said that he is God English is my second language and I certainly don't read it that way.
Marthinus
Hi Marthinus,The Jews many times sought to kill Jesus because they believed He was claiming to be God. When a man claims to be God it is blasphemy.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
Jesus understood why they were enraged at Him but He did not deny their accusations that He was claiming to be God.
Jesus could have said to them “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me, I wasn't claiming to be God.” But He didn't correct them, because He was God and He wanted them to know it.
The Jews understood that the Son of the Blessed was also God that is why they accused Jesus of blasphemy.
The picture of the ascended Christ “seated at the right hand of power” is a metaphor meaning that all authority is in Christ's hands. That is all authority.
Can you imagine the Godhead relinquishing all their power and authority to a created being. I cannot. Don't forget that Lucifer was the grandest of all created beings and look what happened.
Hi CB,
Are you saying that Jesus was guilty of blasphemy or not?Hi CB,
You say
'When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God. 'If we are to follow God do we have any divine powers we need to put aside,
or is he so unlike us that we cannot follow him?Hi CBuster
Thanx for your time and effort of your response. I just want to correct you I never said that Jesus was a created being read John1:14 used (G3439) John 1:18 used (G3439) John3:16 used(G3439) John 3:18(G3439) (Begotten meaning only born Strongs G3439) Begotten can also mean regeneration as in Acts 13:33 Strongs G1080 1Cor 4:15 (G3439). The way I understand it that if you are born of your father you are not his creation correct. I too understand the metaphor used “seated at the right hand of power” read Gen 48:13-19 Jacob blessing Ephraim and Manasseh.
To get back to John 10:33 On his works, apart from his words, they might have been able to put a different interpretation, but his words were unambiguous. While he subordinated himself to God, as the Son to the Father, yet he claimed to be one with the father, placing himself on the other side of the chasm that seperated God from man, the Creator from the creature. The logic of their argument seemed incapable of refutation: this was blasphemy, an offence that involved the whole community in serious guilt, unless the perpertrator were put away from among his people, 'cut off from Israel'. However as readers of the Gospel of John we know better, we can follow it's record of the sayings and actions of Jesus in the light of the prologue, (John 1:1-18)from which we have already learned that Jesus is the incarnate Word, that Word which in the beginning was with God and was God. We have learned to that Jesus is uniquely the Son who has his being in the Father's bosom and has come forth from God to make Him known in the world.(John 1:18) High as His claims are, then they are grounded in the truth of his being and his mission: his works are the works of God; his words are the words of God. He is not 'making himself God'; he is not making himself anything, but in word and work he is showing himself to be what he truly is – the Son sent by the Father to bring light and life to mankind. (F.F. Bruce The Gospel of John)
Marthinus
Hi M,
By the anointing given him from above.
Otherwise if he was simply using his own innate abilities it makes a nonsense of Phil2 and Acts 10.Hi CBuster and Worshipping Jesus
You Quoted “Some on this forum just want to look at Bible verses that are in the context of Christ mission as Messiah but don't like when shown the multitude of scripture identifying Him as the divine Jehovah God.
Jesus Christ is the creator, not a creature and will always be equal to the Father in this sense. Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”…. ”I agree with jou fully that Jesus Christ is the creator in the context of John 1:1-18. You mention Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God…” Yea this is a stumbling block for many (Jehovas witnesses etc) but let us look at it in depth and in context with rest of the Gospel of John. I used as reference the works of F.F.Bruce.
In the creation narrative at the beginning of Genesis we read repeatedly that 'God said…..and it was so' This can be expressed in other terms, as in Ps 33.6, 'By the word of the LORD the heavens were made'. When this form of language is used , the way is open to personify 'the word of the LORD' and treat it as his agent or messenger. Similarly, alongside the statement that 'the LORD said to Isaiah….' (Isa 7:3) we may be told that 'the word of the LORD came to Isaiah (Isa 38:4). Again, the two statements are synonymous , but the latter of the two 'the word of the LORD' can be pictured as a messanger sent by God to the prophet Isaiah. An even more telling instance of this usage appears in Ps. 107:20. There men are portrayed suffering near-mortal sickness and crying to God for help, whereupon 'He sent forth his word, and healed them, and delivered them from destruction.' It is recognizably a development of the prophetic conception of Gods word as his messenger, unerringly fulfilling his commission, as in Isaiah 55:11 'My word…that goes forth from my mouth …..shall not return to me empty; but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I send it.'
In the beginning', then, when the universe was brought into existance, the divine Word by which it was brought into existance was already there.(First part of John1:1) And the language which follows shows that John has no mere literary personification in mind. The personal status which he ascribes to the Word is a matter of real existence; (I hope you agree) The relation which the Word bears to God is a personal relation: 'the Word was with God'. This statement has profound theological implications, but these implications are not involved in the choice of the Greek preposition 'pros' (a preposition links nouns, pronouns and phrases to other words in a sentence) to denote 'with'. True in literary Greek this is not a common sense of 'pros' but 'pros' in this sense can be paralleled within the fourfold Gospel in the most ordinary and everyday context. When the Nazarenes say of Jesus in Mark 6:3, are not his sisters here with us?', the Greek word translated 'with' is 'pros' . The Word of God is distinguished from God himself, and yet exists in a close personal relation with him; moreover, the Word shares the very nature of God, for 'the Word was God'.
The structure of the third clause in verse 1, demands the translation 'The Word was God'. Since 'logos' has the article preceding it, it is marked out as the subject. The fact that 'theos' is the first word after the conjunction 'kai' ('and') shows that the main emphasis of the clause lies on it. Had 'theos' as well as 'logos' been preceded by the article the meaning would have been that the Word was completely identical with God, which is impossible if the Word was also 'with God'. What is meant is that the Word shared the nature of God, or was an extension of the personality of God. The NEB paraphrase 'what God was, the Word was', brings out the meaning of the clause as successfully as a paraphrase can. 'John intends that the whole of his gospel shall be read in the light of this verse. The deeds and words of Jesus are the deeds and words of God; if this is not true the book is blasphemous'.
So when heaven and earth were created, there was the Word of God, already existing in the closest association with God and partaking of the essence of God. No matter how far back we may try to push our imagination, we can never reach a point at which we could say of the Divine Word, as Arius did, 'There was once when he was not' (Do you know who Arius was?)
I sincerly hope you understand what I am trying to say.
Marthinus
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