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Quote (t8 @ April 22 2007,21:22) Quote (Cult Buster @ April 22 2007,19:35) t8, I also only repeat the following. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Yes and I repeat those scriptures too.It is not the scriptures you quote but the conclusion you come to.
A triune God is your conclusion.
But the LORD GOD is one God, not a triune God.
t8So how should the second word 'Theos' (“God”), in Jn 1:1 be interpreted?
Go ahead t8. You have the floor. We are listening for your truth.
Tell us.
WJ, (from topic/thread: Inference page 13),
You brought this up so I thought to address it here.
Let me first say that I am not entirely sure who the speaker is, however, on the assumption that it is the Father speaking to the son, I would say that Hebrews 1:10 can NOT mean to equate Lord w/ YHWH [LORD], as this violates Psalm 102 itself and so one must again consider that the law came by Moses as truth and grace came by Jesus (John 1) cannot mean that they each created their respective covenants, and likewise, that Yeshua is the creator but rather as various scriptures attest, GOD wrought the creation and our salvation THROUGH him.Here's why:
There is a petitioner entreating YHWH GOD in Psalm 102:1-24a (if not throughout to vs 28):Ps 102:1 Hear my prayer, O YHWH, and let my cry come unto thee.
The petitioner refers to himself w/ pronouns I/My/Me from vs. 1-24b while at the same time referring to YHWH as YHWH, GOD, Thy, Thee, Thou (KJV) thru vs 24b, and POSSIBLY thru to vs 28.
Vs. 24b-28 uses pronouns Thy, Thee, Thou, them, they, and at this point, we are not sure who is intended by them, that is, who is saying what to whom. You say that Jesus is being spoken to and this proves he is YHWH.
If YHWH is responding to the petitioner (as it appears he is), then the petitioner has now become he who is referred to in vs 24b-28 as “thy, thou, thee” in these verses. However, once you take this position, you must ABANDON the position that the petitioner is YHWH.
Reason being that:
1) One was identified as YHWH and GOD in the text. It is he who was being petitioned.
2) The suppliant at no time was identified as YHWH or an equal or the same substance as YHWH.
3) It is written, O Trinitarian: Hbr 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.The greater of the two is YHWH GOD because it is to him, the petitioner already declared his position of weakness throughout vs 1-24a.
If indeed Hebrews 1:10 means to let us understand that Jesus is the subject in those verses, I can receive it in light of Isaiah 9:6 and still, doesn't make Jesus YHWH or equal to YHWH.
Now the other position has been well defended by t8's first post, in that in Ps 102, it could mean that the speaker entreated and praised YHWH throughout. In this case, the petitioner remains the same and GOD remains the same, and we don't have a response being given, in addition to what t8 already said. These are the scenarios that I see.
Quote (Cubes @ May 01 2007,10:44) WJ, (from topic/thread: Inference page 13),
You brought this up so I thought to address it here.
Let me first say that I am not entirely sure who the speaker is, however, on the assumption that it is the Father speaking to the son, I would say that Hebrews 1:10 can NOT mean to equate Lord w/ YHWH [LORD], as this violates Psalm 102 itself and so one must again consider that the law came by Moses as truth and grace came by Jesus (John 1) cannot mean that they each created their respective covenants, and likewise, that Yeshua is the creator but rather as various scriptures attest, GOD wrought the creation and our salvation THROUGH him.Here's why:
There is a petitioner entreating YHWH GOD in Psalm 102:1-24a (if not throughout to vs 28):Ps 102:1 Hear my prayer, O YHWH, and let my cry come unto thee.
The petitioner refers to himself w/ pronouns I/My/Me from vs. 1-24b while at the same time referring to YHWH as YHWH, GOD, Thy, Thee, Thou (KJV) thru vs 24b, and POSSIBLY thru to vs 28.
Vs. 24b-28 uses pronouns Thy, Thee, Thou, them, they, and at this point, we are not sure who is intended by them, that is, who is saying what to whom. You say that Jesus is being spoken to and this proves he is YHWH.
If YHWH is responding to the petitioner (as it appears he is), then the petitioner has now become he who is referred to in vs 24b-28 as “thy, thou, thee” in these verses. However, once you take this position, you must ABANDON the position that the petitioner is YHWH.
Reason being that:
1) One was identified as YHWH and GOD in the text. It is he who was being petitioned.
2) The suppliant at no time was identified as YHWH or an equal or the same substance as YHWH.
3) It is written, O Trinitarian: Hbr 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.The greater of the two is YHWH GOD because it is to him, the petitioner already declared his position of weakness throughout vs 1-24a.
If indeed Hebrews 1:10 means to let us understand that Jesus is the subject in those verses, I can receive it in light of Isaiah 9:6 and still, doesn't make Jesus YHWH or equal to YHWH.
Now the other position has been well defended by t8's first post, in that in Ps 102, it could mean that the speaker entreated and praised YHWH throughout. In this case, the petitioner remains the same and GOD remains the same, and we don't have a response being given, in addition to what t8 already said. These are the scenarios that I see.
CubesSo we disagree.
The writer of the book of Hebrews in chapter 1 is all about exalting Yeshua as it plainly shows.
Vrs 8 and 9 speaks of the Father calling Yeshua, God, and vrs 9 anointing him above his fellows, and the flow goes right into vrs 10,
And the writer continues with…
“*And, Thou, Lord*, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”
Then the writer continues with verse 13 Speaking of the Son.
The word “And” links verses 8,9 and 10,11,12.
Its evident that the writer of the book of Hebrew in Chapter 1, throughout the whole chapter he is quoting Hebrew text and ascribing them to Yeshua.
Its plain as the nose on my face that the writer in the context is speaking of Yeshua in vrs 10.
Again the key word that links the verses is “AND”, all of the major translations bear this out.
So the truth shines bright. While it is hard for many to recieve.
Yeshua is YHWH, and the creator.
Quote (Cubes @ May 01 2007,10:44) WJ, (from topic/thread: Inference page 13),
You brought this up so I thought to address it here.
Let me first say that I am not entirely sure who the speaker is, however, on the assumption that it is the Father speaking to the son, I would say that Hebrews 1:10 can NOT mean to equate Lord w/ YHWH [LORD], as this violates Psalm 102 itself and so one must again consider that the law came by Moses as truth and grace came by Jesus (John 1) cannot mean that they each created their respective covenants, and likewise, that Yeshua is the creator but rather as various scriptures attest, GOD wrought the creation and our salvation THROUGH him.Here's why:
Ps 102:1 Hear my prayer, O YHWH, and let my cry come unto thee.
There is a petitioner entreating YHWH GOD in Psalm 102:1-24a (if not throughout to vs 28):The petitioner refers to himself w/ pronouns I/My/Me from vs. 1-24b while at the same time referring to YHWH as YHWH, GOD, Thy, Thee, Thou (KJV) thru vs 24b, and POSSIBLY thru to vs 28.
Vs. 24b-28 uses pronouns Thy, Thee, Thou, them, they, and at this point, we are not sure who is intended by them, that is, who is saying what to whom. You say that Jesus is being spoken to and this proves he is YHWH.
If YHWH is responding to the petitioner (as it appears he is), then the petitioner has now become he who is referred to in vs 24b-28 as “thy, thou, thee” in these verses. However, once you take this position, you must ABANDON the position that the petitioner is YHWH.
Reason being that:
Hbr 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
1) One was identified as YHWH and GOD in the text. It is he who was being petitioned.
2) The suppliant at no time was identified as YHWH or an equal or the same substance as YHWH.
3) It is written, O Trinitarian:The greater of the two is YHWH GOD because it is to him, the petitioner already declared his position of weakness throughout vs 1-24a.
If indeed Hebrews 1:10 means to let us understand that Jesus is the subject in those verses, I can receive it in light of Isaiah 9:6 and still, doesn't make Jesus YHWH or equal to YHWH.
Now the other position has been well defended by t8's first post, in that in Ps 102, it could mean that the speaker entreated and praised YHWH throughout. In this case, the petitioner remains the same and GOD remains the same, and we don't have a response being given, in addition to what t8 already said. These are the scenarios that I see.
CubesYou say…
Quote If indeed Hebrews 1:10 means to let us understand that Jesus is the subject in those verses, I can receive it in light of Isaiah 9:6 and still, doesn't make Jesus YHWH or equal to YHWH. So you then would say that Jesus is a lessor god and that he is the creator after all?
How do you explain this post of which I can not add since Isaiah brings it out so eloquently.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1311
WJ.
Quote How do you explain this post of which I can not add since Isaiah brings it out so eloquently. (From Is 1:18 Posted: April 23 2007,01:01)
Okay short and sweet this time….
In the below passage Zechariah records a quite amazing prophecy:
Zechariah 12:10
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.What’s significant (in the context of this debate submission) about the highlighted statement above is that the preceding verses (1, 4, 6 and 9) unmistakably bear out that it was a prophecy made by YHWH, and would be fulfilled by YHWH. YHWH foretold that they (the inhabitants of Jerusalem) will look upon “Me” whom they (the inhabitants of Jerusalem) pierced.
Zechariah 12:1-9
1The burden of the word of the LORD [YHWH] concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD [YHWH] who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, 2″Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. 3″It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it. 4″In that day,” declares the LORD [YHWH], “I will strike every horse with bewilderment and his rider with madness. But I will watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5″Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, 'A strong support for us are the inhabitants of Jerusalem through the LORD of hosts, their God.' 6″In that day I [YHWH] will make the clans of Judah like a firepot among pieces of wood and a flaming torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while the inhabitants of Jerusalem again dwell on their own sites in Jerusalem. 7″The LORD also will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah. 8″In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD before them. 9″And in that day I [YHWH] will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.There is no mention of a secondary identity in the Zechariah's predictive prophecy. The “me” in “they will look on Me whom they have pierced” is YHWH. In the immediately-preceding verse YHWH affirmed “I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem”, which of course only the Almighty could accomplish. With that in mind, please consider Who it was that John taught fulfilled this prophecy:
John 19:33-37
33but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, “NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN.” 37And again another Scripture says, “THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED.According to John, Zechariah 10:12 is a predictive reference to the piercing (vs 34) incurred by Yeshua during His crucifixion (“For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture” – v 36). Let me be as clear as I can here t8: Only YHWH could fulfill this prophecy, because it was made specifically by YHWH (through Zechariah) and of YHWH. It cannot be fulfilled by proxy, the piercing was to be incurred by YHWH and it is YHWH that would be looked upon. No one else, the language in the Zechariah text is unambiguous and does not allow for it. John unequivocally tells us that Yeshua literally fulfilled the Zech 12:10 prophecy at Calvary, but crucially He fulfilled it after His body had expired (v 33). The Roman soldiers and other bystanders (the inhabitants of Jerusalem) looked upon His lifeless body, but John and Zechariah tell us that this was the body of YHWH. So, the obvious implication here is: even His dead body was considered utterly divine, it was the body of YHWH. So any argument linking Yeshua's deity with His indwelling by the Holy Spirit is vaporised in this verse.
If YHWH makes a prophecy that only YHWH can fulfill, and Yahshua fulfills it, then He is YHWH. There is no other acceptable conclusion.
Now some questions for you t8:
Q1) Was the “me” that was foretold to be pierced and looked upon by the inhabitant of Jerusalem in Zech 12:10 a refererence to YHWH? If not, please provide lexical evidence to the contrary.
Q2) According to John's inspired-understanding, was Yeshua in fact the “me” in the Zech 12:10 prophecy (John 19:37)? If not, please explain.
Q3) If YHWH makes a prophecy that only YHWH can fulfill, and Yeshua fulfills it, is it reasonable to conclude that Yeshua is YHWH? If not why not?
Blessings
reason for edit – punctuation
(What's happened to t8? It's been over one week now and he hasn't responded to this stumper by Isaiha.)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2007,16:46) Quote (Cubes @ May 01 2007,10:44) WJ, (from topic/thread: Inference page 13),
You brought this up so I thought to address it here.
Let me first say that I am not entirely sure who the speaker is, however, on the assumption that it is the Father speaking to the son, I would say that Hebrews 1:10 can NOT mean to equate Lord w/ YHWH [LORD], as this violates Psalm 102 itself and so one must again consider that the law came by Moses as truth and grace came by Jesus (John 1) cannot mean that they each created their respective covenants, and likewise, that Yeshua is the creator but rather as various scriptures attest, GOD wrought the creation and our salvation THROUGH him.Here's why:
There is a petitioner entreating YHWH GOD in Psalm 102:1-24a (if not throughout to vs 28):Ps 102:1 Hear my prayer, O YHWH, and let my cry come unto thee.
The petitioner refers to himself w/ pronouns I/My/Me from vs. 1-24b while at the same time referring to YHWH as YHWH, GOD, Thy, Thee, Thou (KJV) thru vs 24b, and POSSIBLY thru to vs 28.
Vs. 24b-28 uses pronouns Thy, Thee, Thou, them, they, and at this point, we are not sure who is intended by them, that is, who is saying what to whom. You say that Jesus is being spoken to and this proves he is YHWH.
If YHWH is responding to the petitioner (as it appears he is), then the petitioner has now become he who is referred to in vs 24b-28 as “thy, thou, thee” in these verses. However, once you take this position, you must ABANDON the position that the petitioner is YHWH.
Reason being that:
1) One was identified as YHWH and GOD in the text. It is he who was being petitioned.
2) The suppliant at no time was identified as YHWH or an equal or the same substance as YHWH.
3) It is written, O Trinitarian: Hbr 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.The greater of the two is YHWH GOD because it is to him, the petitioner already declared his position of weakness throughout vs 1-24a.
If indeed Hebrews 1:10 means to let us understand that Jesus is the subject in those verses, I can receive it in light of Isaiah 9:6 and still, doesn't make Jesus YHWH or equal to YHWH.
Now the other position has been well defended by t8's first post, in that in Ps 102, it could mean that the speaker entreated and praised YHWH throughout. In this case, the petitioner remains the same and GOD remains the same, and we don't have a response being given, in addition to what t8 already said. These are the scenarios that I see.
CubesSo we disagree.
The writer of the book of Hebrews in chapter 1 is all about exalting Yeshua as it plainly shows.
Vrs 8 and 9 speaks of the Father calling Yeshua, God, and vrs 9 anointing him above his fellows, and the flow goes right into vrs 10,
And the writer continues with…
“*And, Thou, Lord*, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”
Then the writer continues with verse 13 Speaking of the Son.
The word “And” links verses 8,9 and 10,11,12.
Its evident that the writer of the book of Hebrew in Chapter 1, throughout the whole chapter he is quoting Hebrew text and ascribing them to Yeshua.
Its plain as the nose on my face that the writer in the context is speaking of Yeshua in vrs 10.
Again the key word that links the verses is “AND”, all of the major translations bear this out.
So the truth shines bright. While it is hard for many to recieve.
Yeshua is YHWH, and the creator.
Blessings WJ,a. Either Heb 1:10's “Lord” is not YHWH (given that the suppliant was never shown to be YHWH in Ps 102), but “Master” referring to Christ in the capacity of one whom the worlds were created through as stated earlier in Heb 1:2
or
b. It means YHWH (because YHWH remained YHWH consistently through Ps 102), referring exclusively to the Father only by and from whom are all things.
Personally, I believe that your position that Jesus IS YHWH is without scriptural witness, whereas choice “a” has witness as relates to YHWH speaking creation into being (the WORD which was made flesh), and choice “b” has abundant witness throughout scripture.
So there. It's not what I am saying: it's what is written.
Regarding this second debate you brought up, I cannot visit it now but hope to soon, as God gives insight.
Quote (Cubes @ May 03 2007,02:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2007,16:46) Quote (Cubes @ May 01 2007,10:44) WJ, (from topic/thread: Inference page 13),
You brought this up so I thought to address it here.
Let me first say that I am not entirely sure who the speaker is, however, on the assumption that it is the Father speaking to the son, I would say that Hebrews 1:10 can NOT mean to equate Lord w/ YHWH [LORD], as this violates Psalm 102 itself and so one must again consider that the law came by Moses as truth and grace came by Jesus (John 1) cannot mean that they each created their respective covenants, and likewise, that Yeshua is the creator but rather as various scriptures attest, GOD wrought the creation and our salvation THROUGH him.Here's why:
There is a petitioner entreating YHWH GOD in Psalm 102:1-24a (if not throughout to vs 28):Ps 102:1 Hear my prayer, O YHWH, and let my cry come unto thee.
The petitioner refers to himself w/ pronouns I/My/Me from vs. 1-24b while at the same time referring to YHWH as YHWH, GOD, Thy, Thee, Thou (KJV) thru vs 24b, and POSSIBLY thru to vs 28.
Vs. 24b-28 uses pronouns Thy, Thee, Thou, them, they, and at this point, we are not sure who is intended by them, that is, who is saying what to whom. You say that Jesus is being spoken to and this proves he is YHWH.
If YHWH is responding to the petitioner (as it appears he is), then the petitioner has now become he who is referred to in vs 24b-28 as “thy, thou, thee” in these verses. However, once you take this position, you must ABANDON the position that the petitioner is YHWH.
Reason being that:
1) One was identified as YHWH and GOD in the text. It is he who was being petitioned.
2) The suppliant at no time was identified as YHWH or an equal or the same substance as YHWH.
3) It is written, O Trinitarian: Hbr 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.The greater of the two is YHWH GOD because it is to him, the petitioner already declared his position of weakness throughout vs 1-24a.
If indeed Hebrews 1:10 means to let us understand that Jesus is the subject in those verses, I can receive it in light of Isaiah 9:6 and still, doesn't make Jesus YHWH or equal to YHWH.
Now the other position has been well defended by t8's first post, in that in Ps 102, it could mean that the speaker entreated and praised YHWH throughout. In this case, the petitioner remains the same and GOD remains the same, and we don't have a response being given, in addition to what t8 already said. These are the scenarios that I see.
CubesSo we disagree.
The writer of the book of Hebrews in chapter 1 is all about exalting Yeshua as it plainly shows.
Vrs 8 and 9 speaks of the Father calling Yeshua, God, and vrs 9 anointing him above his fellows, and the flow goes right into vrs 10,
And the writer continues with…
“*And, Thou, Lord*, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”
Then the writer continues with verse 13 Speaking of the Son.
The word “And” links verses 8,9 and 10,11,12.
Its evident that the writer of the book of Hebrew in Chapter 1, throughout the whole chapter he is quoting Hebrew text and ascribing them to Yeshua.
Its plain as the nose on my face that the writer in the context is speaking of Yeshua in vrs 10.
Again the key word that links the verses is “AND”, all of the major translations bear this out.
So the truth shines bright. While it is hard for many to recieve.
Yeshua is YHWH, and the creator.
Blessings WJ,a. Either Heb 1:10's “Lord” is not YHWH (given that the suppliant was never shown to be YHWH in Ps 102), but “Master” referring to Christ in the capacity of one whom the worlds were created through as stated earlier in Heb 1:2
or
b. It means YHWH (because YHWH remained YHWH consistently through Ps 102), referring exclusively to the Father only by and from whom are all things.
Personally, I believe that your position that Jesus IS YHWH is without scriptural witness, whereas choice “a” has witness as relates to YHWH speaking creation into being (the WORD which was made flesh), and choice “b” has abundant witness throughout scripture.
So there. It's not what I am saying: it's what is written.
Regarding this second debate you brought up, I cannot visit it now but hope to soon, as God gives insight.
CubesYou dont get it do you?
This is exactly what the writer is trying to convey is that Yeshau is YHWH.
You are blatantly misinterpreting Heb 1:10 when the flow of the context is speaking of Yeshua.
“and” the Lord…
But if we are to take your position that David may be speaking of Yeshua as master then you also have a contradiction because it says…
Pss 102
I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
25 *Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.There is no median spoken of here. This is a solo declaration that by his hands he laid the foundations of the earth!
And if David is meaning Yeshua is just a master and the creator here, then you have a contradiction.
Isa 45:
11 Thus saith the *LORD ,(YHWH)* the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and *concerning the work of my hands* command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: *I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens*, and all their host have I commanded.Either way to harmonize the scriptures Yeshua has to be YHWH in the flesh.
And as far as Yeshua being YHWH, maybe you can give us your thoughts on Zech Ch 12 and 14.
And also I would like to see your comment on Is 1:18 proof text #2.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1311
Hi W,
YHWH was in the flesh of Christ.
God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.
But that does not make the vessel of Christ the treasure within it.
In the same way we too are vessels for the glorious treasure of the Spirit of God.Colossians 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2007,06:52) Hi W,
YHWH was in the flesh of Christ.
God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.
But that does not make the vessel of Christ the treasure within it.
In the same way we too are vessels for the glorious treasure of the Spirit of God.Colossians 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
NHYou say…
Quote
But that does not make the vessel of Christ the treasure within it.
Who do you think the treasure is?Paul knew.
Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
Who is your love and prize NH?
Who is your Lord and master?
Who is it that you seek after?
I hope it is God.
You say…
Quote Colossians 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.You have only quoted part of the verse…
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to *the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ*;
3 *In whom* are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.Which one is the “in whom”?
Its both the Father and the Son, who with the Spirit is One God.
Hi W,
You again mistake the Son for his Dad.
You forget the mediator and intercessor with God.
The high calling of God for us is indeed found for us in Christ Jesus.
In him are found all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge of his God and our God.Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Do we have the calling of God? The same that was in Christ?
Not OF Christ but the calling IN Christ?
Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,10:48) Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.What is the high calling? God IN Christ. Not God Christ.
Quote (kenrch @ May 03 2007,10:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,10:48) Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.What is the high calling? God IN Christ. Not God Christ.
**that I may win Christ*,* Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,11:08) Quote (kenrch @ May 03 2007,10:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,10:48) Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.What is the high calling? God IN Christ. Not God Christ.
**that I may win Christ*,*
And what is in Christ?14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,10:48) Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
Hi W,
Paul was a Pharisee who had to repent of his false religion and false knowledge that caused him to hate Christ and kill the sons of God, and turn around to instead serve Christ. He had to regard all his previous “knowledge” as rubbish to do so.He had to be freed from the false spirit of antichrist, the leaven of the Pharisees to be used of the Spirit of God, for God in Christ.
He had to make room for Christ to live in and through him for God. He had to submit to the teaching of the Spirit of God and be led by that Spirit of Christ. That was his high calling in God, as it is for all of us.
Quote (kenrch @ May 03 2007,11:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,11:08) Quote (kenrch @ May 03 2007,10:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,10:48) Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.What is the high calling? God IN Christ. Not God Christ.
**that I may win Christ*,*
And what is in Christ?14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
*those I counted loss for Christ*.*I count all things but loss for the excellency of the*knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*
*that I may win Christ*
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,11:17) Quote (kenrch @ May 03 2007,11:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,11:08) Quote (kenrch @ May 03 2007,10:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2007,10:48) Phil 3:
7 But what things were gain to me, *those I counted loss for Christ*.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the *knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, *that I may win Christ*,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
The Prize is Christ!
The High calliing is to win Christ!
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.What is the high calling? God IN Christ. Not God Christ.
**that I may win Christ*,*
And what is in Christ?14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of *God in Christ Jesus*.
*those I counted loss for Christ*.*I count all things but loss for the excellency of the*knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord*
*that I may win Christ*
When you win Christ what have you won the vessel or what's IN the vessel?
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