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Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 26 2007,23:13) t8. You are now trying to wriggle out of your corner. Don't you know the scriptures? Worship belongs to God alone.
Rev 22:8 And I John am he that heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that showed me these things.
Rev 22:9 And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets, and with them that keep the words of this book: worship God.Jesus was worshipped says t8. Jesus is God.
What?It says worship God.
God gave the revelation to Christ who gave it to the angel.
Yes we worship God. At God's right hand side is the lamb of God.
Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”So if Jesus is God, then who is the Lamb?
You see once again the Trinity doctrine breaks scripture.
Some people just can't handle the truth. So they cast you out. Beware when all men speak well of you for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Mr. Steve
SO TELL US T8. Is it ok to worship a created being? What you are advocating is idolatry!
Jesus was worshipped because He is God.
TITUS 2:13 awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
And as I was saying CB; thank you for your input; it helps us all to see what is in our own individual hearts; its only possible to be what we are in all truth; and that then is expectable before GOD; BEING FOUND IN ALL TRUTH WITHIN.
This debate would have been nothing without Isaiah; his time and efforts are by no means wasted
CB;
Revelation 3:9 says “I will make them who are of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, to come and worship before thy feet.” This is very interesting. When Christ said “say they are Jews” he of course meant spiritually. Moreover, he said they were really of the synagogue of Satan, but representing themselves as Christians. Do you think they were deceived, or they were just deceiving others?
Steven
CB;
Christ was worshipped because it was God's will for him to be honored to the same degree as the Father, but he is not the Father. Christ is the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world. Christ is the Savior and is worshipped as such.
Steven
Mr Steve.
We are not to worship created beings; not even angels. Worship belongs to God.
Rev 22:8 And I John am he that heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that showed me these things.
Rev 22:9 And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets, and with them that keep the words of this book: worship God.Jesus was worshipped because He is Jehovah God.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Yahshua was worshiped and is to be worshiped, but not as God, but the Son of God. And his worship was not an automatic right, it was given
Hbr 1:6 And then, when he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”
If Yahshua was and is God, why would the Father have to make the statement “Let all of the angels of God worship him”? The Father directed the angels to worship God. The Father allows this because Yahshua is His Son, in whom He is well pleased! And to honor the Son is to honor the One who sent him. Yahshua did not send himself, did he?
Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 30 2007,04:03) We are not to worship created beings; not even angels. Worship belongs to God. Rev 22:8 And I John am he that heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that showed me these things.
Rev 22:9 And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets, and with them that keep the words of this book: worship God.Jesus was worshipped because He is Jehovah God.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Kejonn. Worship belongs to God alone. I you worship any other thab God, it is idolatry. Jesus was worshipped because Jesus is God.LOOK AGAIN!
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Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Worship Jesus our GodQuote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,13:00) Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Worship Jesus our God
Was he worshipped as God or the son of God?
Let scripture interpret scripture:Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”Bias sees what it wants to see, but scripture is given for reproof and correction.
To all:
It's time we call a spade a spade and to oppose any doctrine that denies that Christ is the Son of God is against what Christ taught. Some may rest that God winks at ignorance, but how long will he wink? Jesus said that those who do not believe that he is the Son of God are condemned already. God has not called us to be spiritual politicians. We can't serve two masters. Paul said if I seek to please men I should not be the servant of Christ. Find something else to do.
Many “believers” conclude that Jesus was worshipped because he was God. Again, this extrapolation of scripture contradicts scripture. Jesus denied that he was God. He said he was the Son of God. He is to be worshipped as the Son of God and because God has “made” him to be Lord of heaven and earth.
Jesus said there is only one God and it was the first commandment to love him with all your heart. He did not include himself as God when he had many opportunities to do so. Even the unbelieving Jews according to the flesh said that he made himself to be the Son of God.
The enemy, Satan, is out to deceive no matter how he achieves it. When you declare that Christ is God you deny that he is the Son of God. If you deny that Christ is the Son of God you cannot have eternal life. The devil is pleased with those who deny that Christ is the Son of God. To please God you must believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
When the disciples declared that Christ was the Son of God, Jesus said upon this rock he would build his church. If you want to be a part of the church, you must believe that Christ is the Son of God. If you believe he is God, you deny he is the Son of God, and your doctrine is not of God, regardless of your intent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Be not deceived.
The days of religious patronizing are over. If a person does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God he cannot have eternal life. Any other gospel deviates from what all the prophets, apostles, and Christ gave their lives for us to believe and to declare. If we declare another gospel we should be prepared to answer to God and face shame before all those who declared that Christ was the Son of God and were martyred for the rock of that truth.
But the devil is a deceiver and he knows that the most effective deception is religious deception. Be not deceived. Read the scriptures. Read the scriptures that address the issue. Bring up your Strong's Concordance online and do a word search on the Son of God. You'll find that Jesus was declared to be the Son of God more than any other title. The word of God is the authority. Not one person in the Bible declared that Jesus was God the Father. Perhaps the greatest statement is by the Father himself at Christ baptism, the sermon on the mount, and in the Temple, where the Father spake and declared this is my Son. The Father did not say this is me Jehovah. So those that make such a declaration that Christ is Jehovah are either ignorant, unbelieving, or suffering from a religous deception.
Behold, he comes quickly!!!
Steven
Steve,
I'm curious…do you know what the doctrine of the trinity is? No good trinitarian will believe that Yeshua is God the Father. They will say that he is God the Son, although that moniker never occurs in the Bible. Nor does God the Holy Spirit. But what you keep mentioning is more akin to sabellism or oneness, not the trinity. The only one on here that says “Jesus Jehovah God” is CultBuster.
So you will not see WJ or Is 1:18 ever say Yeshua is God the Father. They see God as a singular essence made up of three “persons”. Even “persons” is not the best word but it is used. They will freely admit that Yeshua is the Son of God, but that he is also God. Just like you are a human, and your offspring is human.
I've not been able to pin any of them down on this (that I can remember) but I think I asked them if they thought that Yeshua was one “person” of God, or one “person” of YHWH. There IS a difference, believe it or not! Even these verses lead to that:
Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Deu 6:5 “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.If you look closely at Deu 6:4, what does it say? “YHWH is our God”. In other words, there are many supposed “gods” out there, and the people all around the Israelites served them, but the proclamtion here is the YHWH is the God of Israel. And the statement is not that God is one, but that YHWH is one. Read it and see if that is not the case!
But there is still one problem. While it says that YHWH is one, it also says that He is the God of Israel. The OT never speaks of another God, only YHWH.
So, we're back to this: is YHWH triune, or is He the Father of the triune God? That is the question for trinitarians to answer.
Kejonn;
When they say that Jesus is God they are saying he is Jehovah. Jehovah is the Father. WJ does say that Christ is the Almighty. The Almighty is Jehovah in the scriptures. The trinity declares all three eternally co-existent. That declaration contradicts the scriptures, which declare Christ to be the Son of God. A Son cannot eternally co-exist with his father, otherwise, he is not a son, but another being.
Take Care
Steven
As Christians we should understand the elementary teachings of Christ. The most basic of truths regarding Jesus is that he is the son of God and the messiah.
Yes there are cleverly devised doctrines that lead men away from this elementary truth and they should be exposed for what they are.
Steve
You say…
Quote
We can't serve two masters. Paul said if I seek to please men I should not be the servant of Christ. Find something else to do.I am curious you say that “we can't serve two masters”, but then quote Paul saying we should be the servants of Christ.
Do you serve “God” the Father. If Jesus is not God and you serve Jesus and the Father, then you have 2 masters, is this not correct?
Steve
you say…
Quote
Jesus said there is only one God and it was the first commandment to love him with all your heart. He did not include himself as God when he had many opportunities to do so.Tell me. Do you love and serve the Father more than Jesus?
Is there a limit to how much we should Love and serve Jesus?
Can we Love the Father apart from or more than the Son?
If Not and Yeshua is not God then we break the first commandment.
Mk 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.WJ;
Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father but by and through Christ. We serve God through Christ. God exalted Christ and gave him a name which is above every name. If it is true that God gave all that he had to give to Christ, then before Christ received all from the Father he did not have all. Otherwise, it would not have been necessary to give all things into his hands. Certainly, if he already had all things he would be God himself. The new testament is bursting at the seams with that truth. It's everywhere throughout the gospels and the epistles-God's work in Christ.
With respect to the next question, do I love and serve the Father more than Jesus? I honor God through honoring Christ. To the degree you honor Christ and what he taught you honor God. If I make a declaration such as Christ is eternal and thereby deny his sonship, I dishonor Christ and dishonor the Father from whom he is begotten. If I made such a declaration I would be like unto you.
There is no limit to how much you should love and serve Jesus. You should love him with all your heart. But as Christ said when he quoted Isaiah, these people honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me. Why? Because they love the praise of men more than the praise of God. Just like many in the days of Christ, they believed in their hearts that he was the Messiah, but would not confess him lest they be put out of the synagogue. Today, many Christians will not confess Christ as the Son of God lest they be put out of the church. Any doctrine that teaches that Christ always existed as the Son of God denies the truth that Christ was begotten by God. If Christ was always the Son of God then he had no Father since he always was. Jesus taught that all that he did was a result of being taught by God his Father.
We cannot love the Father apart from loving the Son. When we accept Christ we accept the Father who sent him. Jesus taught ye do not know the Father if ye do not believe he was sent from the Father. If ye do not believe he is the Son ye cannot enter into life but are condemned already.
Finally, you conclude, If we cannot love the Father a part from the Son and Jesus is not God, we break the first commandment. In what way is your conclusion inconsistent with what Christ taught?
Take Care
Steven
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2007,18:41) Steve You say…
Quote
We can't serve two masters. Paul said if I seek to please men I should not be the servant of Christ. Find something else to do.I am curious you say that “we can't serve two masters”, but then quote Paul saying we should be the servants of Christ.
Do you serve “God” the Father. If Jesus is not God and you serve Jesus and the Father, then you have 2 masters, is this not correct?
steveI repeat. You didnt answer the question.
You say…
Quote
We can't serve two masters. Paul said if I seek to please men I should not be the servant of Christ. Find something else to do.I am curious you say that “we can't serve two masters”, but then quote Paul saying we should be the servants of Christ.
Do you serve “God” the Father. If Jesus is not God and you serve Jesus and the Father, then you have 2 masters, is this not correct?
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Sep. 19 2007,06:15) WJ; Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father but by and through Christ. We serve God through Christ. God exalted Christ and gave him a name which is above every name. If it is true that God gave all that he had to give to Christ, then before Christ received all from the Father he did not have all. Otherwise, it would not have been necessary to give all things into his hands. Certainly, if he already had all things he would be God himself. The new testament is bursting at the seams with that truth. It's everywhere throughout the gospels and the epistles-God's work in Christ.
With respect to the next question, do I love and serve the Father more than Jesus? I honor God through honoring Christ. To the degree you honor Christ and what he taught you honor God. If I make a declaration such as Christ is eternal and thereby deny his sonship, I dishonor Christ and dishonor the Father from whom he is begotten. If I made such a declaration I would be like unto you.
There is no limit to how much you should love and serve Jesus. You should love him with all your heart. But as Christ said when he quoted Isaiah, these people honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me. Why? Because they love the praise of men more than the praise of God. Just like many in the days of Christ, they believed in their hearts that he was the Messiah, but would not confess him lest they be put out of the synagogue. Today, many Christians will not confess Christ as the Son of God lest they be put out of the church. Any doctrine that teaches that Christ always existed as the Son of God denies the truth that Christ was begotten by God. If Christ was always the Son of God then he had no Father since he always was. Jesus taught that all that he did was a result of being taught by God his Father.
We cannot love the Father apart from loving the Son. When we accept Christ we accept the Father who sent him. Jesus taught ye do not know the Father if ye do not believe he was sent from the Father. If ye do not believe he is the Son ye cannot enter into life but are condemned already.
Finally, you conclude, If we cannot love the Father a part from the Son and Jesus is not God, we break the first commandment. In what way is your conclusion inconsistent with what Christ taught?
Take Care
Steven
Mr steveYou still didnt answer my question.
Sons are born. Sons have a beginning.
When you say “Jesus” was a son before he was born a Son, then you are saying Jesus was born again.
This would be in my opinion “Reincarnation”.
Please show me a scripture where Jesus is called the “Son of God' prior to his coming in the flesh.
Lk 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Jesus was not born twice.
He was the Word that was with God and the Word that was God!
Mic 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.You say…
Quote
If I make a declaration such as Christ is eternal and thereby deny his sonship, I dishonor Christ and dishonor the Father from whom he is begotten. If I made such a declaration I would be like unto you.Hear this…”I believe Jesus is the Son of God”.
You have never heard me deny he is the son. Because the Jesus I serve is not the same Jesus you serve gives you no right to say I dishonor him and the Father.
Your statement is not only arrogant and ugly and condemning and full of pride, but is also a lie!
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