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Quote (kejonn @ July 03 2007,06:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2007,14:18)
Hi KJ,
No I do not speak words in my mind before I speak them.
Do you?
Yes, its called “thinking before you speak”, and it happens almost instantaneously but it still takes form in the mind before it comes out of the mouth. If you don't think before you speak, you must get slapped alot
.
Hi KJ,
So God with with the words in His mind??Jesus Christ is called “the mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6.
JW's have a ready answer for this verse. They explain that Christ is “the mighty god” but not “the almighty.” They say that Christ is the mighty, never the almighty and that Jehovah is the almighty God, never the mighty. However, Jeremiah 32:18 shows that Jehovah is the mighty God. Therefore, since Christ is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and Jehovah is the mighty God (Jer. 32:18), they are both God. They both possess full deity.
Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts, is his name,
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is Jehovah. The Mighty God.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:CB Jesus is not the almighty God,our Heavenly Father is the YHWH and the all powerful God. The Doctrine of the trinity was created by a Man. You mention Hyperstacy and that is how I found out that you belief in that doctrine. I had asked you in another Post if you believed in that Doctrine, but you never answered me. As far as the scripture that you give Is.9:6 Yes Jesus is a mighty King, but not the Father. If that would be true all other scripture like in John 14:28 and Eph. 4:6 for instant would contradict IS.9:6. The Bible doesn”t contradict. So put it all together and you will have the truth.
Peace Mrs.IM4TruthMrs.IM4Truth
Quote As far as the scripture that you give Is.9:6 Yes Jesus is a mighty King, but not the Father. The scripture says that Jesus is “The mighty God”
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 12 2007,01:17) Jesus Christ is called “the mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6. JW's have a ready answer for this verse. They explain that Christ is “the mighty god” but not “the almighty.” They say that Christ is the mighty, never the almighty and that Jehovah is the almighty God, never the mighty. However, Jeremiah 32:18 shows that Jehovah is the mighty God. Therefore, since Christ is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and Jehovah is the mighty God (Jer. 32:18), they are both God. They both possess full deity.
Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts, is his name,
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is Jehovah. The Mighty God.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Yes we know all about it CultB.We even understand what you are saying. It's just that we don't believe your reasoning because the Trinity doctrine is not true.
Do you really believe this t8?
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Psalms 82:6 (English-NIV)
“I said, `You are “gods” (Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.'John 10:34 (English-NIV)
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?Sons are called “elohim” and “theos”. Jesus is the son of God and I agree that he is Mighty.
If you don't agree then you would have to say that we are God wouldn't you?
Here ya go CB, just for you, using your “verses of warning”
- 2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, – considering that 2 Thess. was written around 52-55 AD, and the Nicene Creed around 325 AD, Paul may have hit the nail on the head here.
- 2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. – Hmmm, you should read the history of the formulation of the Trinity doctrine. You may well see some wicked acts by those who forced the Trinitarian view.
- 2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. – Who was Paul talking to? Not the ones who formulated the Trinity, that is for sure.
- 2Th 2:14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. –
- 2Th 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us. – Whoops, there goes Paul, talking about what he taught (not the Trinity)
- 2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace – Well lookee there: Lord Jesus Christ and God our Father. Kinda sums up what he DID teach, wouldn't you say?
- 2Cr 11:3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. – Ah, the simplicity of the original gospel, gotta love it. Paul was saved according to it ya know. And look up “trinity” and “mystery” on google and you'll get alot of sites. Some of them are funny even while they adhere to the doctrine. I would say that the Trinity was such a mystery that since Yeshua did not teach it, it must have been a mystery to him too, eh?
- 2Cr 11:4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. – well, since Paul did not teach that Yeshua was a member of the triune God, Paul may very well be talking about Trinitarians. After all, he said the following in the next verse:
- 2Cr 11:31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. – The God and Father of of the Lord Jesus knows Paul was not lying, but you seem to think he's lying in many places.
“Our gospel”? Well Paul did not teach Trinity, so this gospel must NOT be the Trinity. In fact, since the verse Trinitarians love (Matt 28:19) was in a book not written for 15-30 years, what gospel DID Paul teach? Not the Trinity.
You and Paul don't agree much.
Kejonn. This applies to you with your “another Jesus” “another spirit” and “another gospel”
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
The scripture tells us that all things were created by Jesus and for Him that and creation happened by the word of His own mouth and by His own unborrowed power.
Arians. Open your eyes.
Quote Is 1:18
Quote Hebrews 1:10 shows that the pre-incarnate Jesus was the actual executor of all creation. Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
It is clear from the above verses of Is 1:18 that Christ is the Creator God of Psalm 102:25.
Refering to Jesus;
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for himCreated by Who and for Who?
Arians. Your Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. It is “another Jesus”The Bible also tells us clearly that only God was involved in creation.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The Bible makes it clear that all three Persons of the Godhead were involved in creation. This includes Christ (Jehovah) and Jehovah the Holy Spirit.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Quote Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
(Col 1:16-17)Get you catch that Arians? Look again!
'all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.'Only God was before all things created.
Christ the Word of God was the principal Person within the Godhead responsible for creation.
– – “By the Word of God were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.”
(Psa 33:6)Who was this Word of God, the Creator?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,The Word of God is Jesus. Jesus is Jehovah God! (not your “another Jesus”)
– – “A Prayer of Moses, the man of God. Lord, You have been our dwelling-place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting You are God. Psalm 90:2”
Quote Jehovah alone created the universe.
See the following.Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, am the LORD (Jehovah) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Yes, Jehovah created everything by Himself. God did not use angels or other instrumentalities or agents outside of the Godhead. It's very clear.
(God)
Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
The above verses qualify that only God by Himself created the universe. Jesus is the Creator Jehovah God .
The fact is that only Jehovah God was involved in creation. Christ was the Creator so therefore He is Jehovah God. This is consistent with a multitude of scripture that establishes the deity of Christ.
The universe was made for and by Jesus our Jehovah God, and by His own unborrowed power.
Quote Let us take a closer look at John chapter one. John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: “In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word.”
Notice that it says “God was the word.” This is the actual word for word translation. It is not saying that “a god was the word.” Let me break it down into three statements.
“In beginning was the word…”
(en arche en ho logos)“and the word was with the God…”
(kai ho logos en pros ton theon)“and God was the word.”
(kai theos en ho logos)— Properly translated as “and the Word was God.”
So that there is no confusion as to whom this God is that is called the Word. See V14. It is Jesus our Jehovah God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
It is clear that Jesus is Jehovah God not your “another Jesus”
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 22 2007,17:15) Kejonn. This applies to you with your “another Jesus” “another spirit” and “another gospel” 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
You sure? I guess you see this in this verse2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, who is one of three persons on a Triune God, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which is another person of the Triune God, which ye have not received, or another gospel where Yeshua said he shared the Godhead with the Father and the Holy Spirit, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Kejonn. Now you are misquoting scripture.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,To Cult Buster.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 23 2007,10:15) Kejonn. This applies to you with your “another Jesus” “another spirit” and “another gospel” 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Anyone can say what you just said CultB. It means nothing if it is not framed within a true context.Even a Moonie could say the same thing and have it mean that their messiah is the right one.
Why do you bother to post such things without the context? It is a waste of time for everyone.
But even when you do give a context, your reasoning is weak and full of bias. Then you just repeat the same thing. You poor man.
In short you haven't said anything here that we are not already aware of. Many of us believed in the Trinity once.
Has it crossed your mind that you too need to go on a journey and depart from this doctrine for it is not of the bible/scriptures?
I see the same naivety in moslems who are told that if they are martyred they and their family will be saved from the fires of Hell and they will receive 72 virgins for their effort and get to hang out with the prophets. Often the disciples of this lie blow themselves and others up and the crazy thing about it is they do not ask questions. They think they offend God is they ask questions.
CultB, you need to ask questions. If the truth is in your heart, you would check out all things instead of naively going with the status quo. The status quo is a mentality we see in the world. It is one way that people are deceived.
The reason why status quo is not a solid foundation is because the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 22 2007,17:53) Kejonn. Now you are misquoting scripture. Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Not misquoting, but trying to figure out what you see in that verse. I know what the verse says and I believe it for exactly what it says. You are the one using eisegesis.And as far as quoting Revelation, I now know that you are seriously still on the milk. “This book” is Revelation, not the remainder of the Bible. If that was the case, why do most Bibles no longer have the Apocrypha? That was a part of the first canonized Bibles as well, yet most have removed it.
You ignorance of scripture is noted.
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