Trinitarians on the messenger of jehovah

[NickHassan]

Hi Kat,
So he is sitting with God.
Why did you say he is God?

Are you allowed to alter meanings in defence of catholic dogmas?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (katjo @ Oct. 22 2009,14:12)

The meaning of Christ is “sitting” is referring to the fact that His work of redemption is done and when the fullness of the gentiles is brought in (tells us in Romans 11:25), Christ's enemies will be made His footstool as the end of the age comes, all prophecy is completed.

The meaning of Christ is Anointed who anointed him?

[KangarooJack]

For Mikeboll64

thinker

[JustAskin]

An amusing old post from Katjo who 'accidently' refuted the very Trinitarian doctrine she claims to support: on page 13, at the end of her long post she tries to reason that Jesus is no the literal Son of God in the same way that Judas, 'son of perdition' is not the literal Son of Perdition but displays the characteristics of Perdition… See it?

Jesus is the Son of God because he displays the characteristics of God, he is the 'embodiment of what God is'

So… just as she says, and this from a Trinitarian: Judas is not Perdition but he is the embodiment, the son, of Perdition…
And Jesus… is not God but he is the embodiment of the characteristics of God.

You heard it from a Trinitarian.

This is why Trinitarians do not try to explain their doctrine but just stuck rigidly to the well worn scriptures of 'Jesus said 'I Am', 'God said 'your throne, o god' and 'Thomas said, 'my Lord and My God!' '

[KangarooJack]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2010,13:48)

Quote (thethinker @ May 02 2010,12:04) Therefore, Jesus was the Messenger of Jehovah who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, who claimed to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (3:6) and who Moses said appeared to Him (4:1) and who saved the people out of Egypt (Jude 5). Hi Thinker, How do you reconcile your view with Acts 7? 30 “And when forty years were fulfilled, there appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Si′nai an angel in the fiery flame of a thornbush. 31 Now when Moses saw it he marveled at the sight. But as he was approaching to investigate, Jehovah’s voice came, 32 ‘I am the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob.’ peace and love, mike

Mike,

I have answered you already. My view does not need to be reconciled with Acts 7. It says that the Messenger appeared in the burning bush. But Moses told the people that it was Jehovah who appeared in the bush (Ex. 4:1) Therefore, the Messenger was Jehovah. Thus the Messenger's voice was Jehovah's voice.

Note that Stephen said that it was the voice of the Lord (Kurios). Jesus is the Lord (Kurios).

The oldest manuscripts say that it was Jesus who saved the people out of Egypt

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 5 ESV (Critical Text)

The Messenger and Jehovah (Jesus) were one and the same.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Is your god so tiny?
Was God not in heaven when in a bush?

The Spirit of Christ did a lot of things before the vessel came to be.[1Cor10, 1Peter1]
The Lord is the Spirit.

[RokkaMan]

Quote (thethinker @ May 02 2010,14:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2010,13:48) Quote (thethinker @ May 02 2010,12:04) Therefore, Jesus was the Messenger of Jehovah who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, who claimed to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (3:6) and who Moses said appeared to Him (4:1) and who saved the people out of Egypt (Jude 5). Hi Thinker, How do you reconcile your view with Acts 7? 30 “And when forty years were fulfilled, there appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Si′nai an angel in the fiery flame of a thornbush. 31 Now when Moses saw it he marveled at the sight. But as he was approaching to investigate, Jehovah’s voice came, 32 ‘I am the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob.’ peace and love, mike Mike, I have answered you already. My view does not need to be reconciled with Acts 7. It says that the Messenger appeared in the burning bush. But Moses told the people that it was Jehovah who appeared in the bush (Ex. 4:1) Therefore, the Messenger was Jehovah. Thus the Messenger's voice was Jehovah's voice. Note that Stephen said that it was the voice of the Lord (Kurios). Jesus is the Lord (Kurios). The oldest manuscripts say that it was Jesus who saved the people out of Egypt 5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 5 ESV (Critical Text) The Messenger and Jehovah (Jesus) were one and the same. thinker

Yet The Father is not The Son and The Son is not The Father.

but The Son was made and came forth from The Father and is God as well.

Agreed.

There is only one God, God The Father

Agreed

But then how can Jesus be God too?

because he came from The Father.

but he can't be God because only The Father is God?

not true…
if Jesus came forth from the Father himself, he is part of the same fabric that makes God…God.

Yet he's not God The Father, he's the son….
—————————————

Doesn't the logic get tiresome?

Trinitarians and Anti-Trinitarians are singing the same song…

both understandings are incomplete…yet they are both correct.

Jesus is God, but at the same time…he's not God.

He's god because he came from God.
He's not god because he's not original (The Father) eternal source….

yet a piece of infinity is still infinity…. lol so guess what…
he's still god….lol

both arguments are right.

[NickHassan]

Hi RM,
His importance to us is not his supposed history but that God was IN HIM reconciling the world to Himself.
That blessing we can follow into sonship[jn3, Eph3.19, rom8]

[Author]

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