Transcendence versus immanence

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,13:35)

Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,11:33) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21) Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father: And what does the word Father translate to you! God right? So in other words Jesus is saying… Jhn 14:9   Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen God; and how sayest thou then, Shew us God?   WJ Hi Brother: Yes, brother we have seen God through the works of obedience that Jesus did in obedience to God our Father, and yes, Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person, but no, he is not God in the sence that the trinity teaches. Quote Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. People should also be seeing God manifest in our lives through the works of obedience that we are doing also. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Do you go around saying if you know me you know God and if you see me you see God? Do you know of an Apostle or Prophet or Angel anywhere in the scritpures that made such a claim? His words are very selective and not meant to be watered down as you just did Jesus is the Image of the invisible God. In other words he is God made visible. We bear his Image, but he is the Image by which we bear. We are a light, but he is the “True Light” that is in us! We are new born Spirits, but he is the Spirit in us! We preach the Gospel of God, But he is the one we preach! We lay hands on the sick that they may be healed, but he is the Healer! We have “eternal life” but he is the “Eternal Life”! We have the baptism of the Spirit and fire, but he is the baptiser of the Spirit and fire! We are to feed the flock of God, but he is the “Good Shepard”! We are in Gods hands, but it is in Jesus hand that we are! We lead others in the way, but he is the Way! We teach others the truth, but he is the Truth! We have recieved life, but he is the life! We eat the bread of life (the Word), but he is the bread of life, (the Word)! We shall be resurrected, but he is the resurrection, and shall raise all that hear his voice! We have power with God, but he has all authority and power! Can't you see that Jesus is the source of everything that you are and have? “By him all things consist”! Blessings WJ

Hi Brother:

No, I don't walk around saying “he who has seen me has seen the Father”, but Jesus was teaching his disciples including me that this is the case, and since he dwells in me by the Word that has come to me from God through him, people should see the love of God manifest through the life that I live without my having to say it.

No, brother he is not the source, God is the source, and has wrought salvation for humanity through him.  

He obeyed God even unto death on the cross, and without his obedience none of us would be saved, and he is worthy of all the praise, and glory and honor, but no, he is not God in the sense that the trinity teaches.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Cindy]

Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,09:44)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2009,08:41) Hi TT, More foolish theology? Read the Word. “And the Word was God.” “And the Word was made flesh.” thinker

What became flesh who became Jesus, not the Father God.
John !:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Wiord was with God.  Here we see two Beings.  In verse 14 He bcame flesh.  The Word is the Sin of God.  We really never call Him God,  when we say God most believe it is talking of the Father.
Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,00:00)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,13:35) Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,20:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2009,11:33) Hi Marty Quote (942767 @ July 30 2009,19:21) Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father: And what does the word Father translate to you! God right? So in other words Jesus is saying… Jhn 14:9   Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen God; and how sayest thou then, Shew us God?   WJ Hi Brother: Yes, brother we have seen God through the works of obedience that Jesus did in obedience to God our Father, and yes, Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person, but no, he is not God in the sence that the trinity teaches. Quote Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. People should also be seeing God manifest in our lives through the works of obedience that we are doing also. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Do you go around saying if you know me you know God and if you see me you see God? Do you know of an Apostle or Prophet or Angel anywhere in the scritpures that made such a claim? His words are very selective and not meant to be watered down as you just did Jesus is the Image of the invisible God. In other words he is God made visible. We bear his Image, but he is the Image by which we bear. We are a light, but he is the “True Light” that is in us! We are new born Spirits, but he is the Spirit in us! We preach the Gospel of God, But he is the one we preach! We lay hands on the sick that they may be healed, but he is the Healer! We have “eternal life” but he is the “Eternal Life”! We have the baptism of the Spirit and fire, but he is the baptiser of the Spirit and fire! We are to feed the flock of God, but he is the “Good Shepard”! We are in Gods hands, but it is in Jesus hand that we are! We lead others in the way, but he is the Way! We teach others the truth, but he is the Truth! We have recieved life, but he is the life! We eat the bread of life (the Word), but he is the bread of life, (the Word)! We shall be resurrected, but he is the resurrection, and shall raise all that hear his voice! We have power with God, but he has all authority and power! Can't you see that Jesus is the source of everything that you are and have? “By him all things consist”! Blessings WJ Hi Brother: No, I don't walk around saying “he who has seen me has seen the Father”, but Jesus was teaching his disciples including me that this is the case, and since he dwells in me by the Word that has come to me from God through him, people should see the love of God manifest through the life that I live without my having to say it.   No, brother he is not the source, God is the source, and has wrought salvation for humanity through him.   He obeyed God even unto death on the cross, and without his obedience none of us would be saved, and he is worthy of all the praise, and glory and honor, but no, he is not God in the sense that the trinity teaches. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

You keep saying he is not God in the sense that the Trinity teaches.

Then in what sense is he God?

Also tell me how to you Jesus is not the source based on the post that I made.

This scripture in itself is Jesus claiming he is our source…

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. John 6:35

Jesus didn't say the Father is the bread of life did he?

He didn't say to come to the Father and never be hungry or believe on the Father and never thirst did he?

Do you see how you are trying to reduce Jesus to something less than who he is when you claim he is not your source and the only way to God the Father?

It is because of “HIS LIFE” that you live! He is the “Resurrection and the life”, he is the “True light” and if you honour him and recieve him “AS” you do the Father God, then you have God.

He who has the Son has the Father for they are one!

Men should not treat Jesus as some kind of side kick that they move aside to get to the Father, or treat him as some kind of puppet on a string that the Father just pulls and Jesus jumps!

If you believe this way then when you go to pray for the sick and seek for Jesus who is the healer according to scriptures, to heal them, then you should pray Father could you tell Jesus to heal this sick person and give him the power to do it since you are the source and he cannot do anything without asking you!

Nonsense!

It dishonours the Father to see Jesus who is the “Image of the invisible God” as less than God!

It is Jesus Spirit that lives in you is it not?

When you say the Lord or God spoke to you, who are you speaking of? Is it the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit?

Can you say that when you say God spoke to you that it was only the Father?

So if you believe that they are not one God then why do you not say “they spoke to me” meaning God spoke to Jesus who spoke to the Holy Spirit who spoke to me!

Nonsense!

If Jesus is not your source of life then you have no part of him IMO.

Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. “Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you–unless, of course, you fail the test? 2 Cor 13:5

He is before all things, and “in him all things hold together. Col 1:15

He holds everything together, consider the magnitude of this Jesus that has all authority, and all power who has the entire universe in the palm of his hands!

When a woman brings forth a child we without blinking say she brought birth to a child.

Yet anti-trinitarians cannot bring themselves to say that Jesus is the very source of their puny little lives, the very one who holds them in his hand, the very one who is their light and life that they have.

The Lord and King of the Universe.

Let heaven know that Jesus is my Great God and Saviour the Source and provider of everything that has to do with my salvation.

Thank you Father, Thank y
ou Jesus, and Thank you sweet Holy Spirit for all you have done for me! I Love you with my whole heart God!

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ July 31 2009,01:41)

Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,09:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2009,08:41) Hi TT, More foolish theology? Read the Word. “And the Word was God.” “And the Word was made flesh.” thinker What became flesh who became Jesus, not the Father God. John !:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Wiord was with God.  Here we see two Beings.  In verse 14 He bcame flesh.  The Word is the Sin of God.  We really never call Him God,  when we say God most believe it is talking of the Father. Peace and Love Irene

Hi Irene

Did you mean to leave John 1:1c out?

Why not quote the whole verse then it will make more sense, because it doesnt say the Word was the Son of God does it?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2009,23:33)

Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,10:16) Quote (Lightenup @ July 30 2009,22:16) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,04:39) Lightenup said to WJ: Quote Do you understand that many were in trinitarian churches when they realized that the doctrine wasn't what they felt as Biblical. Kathi, I was led to Christ by two former JW's. It happens both ways. So let's just stick to Scripture. thinker Ok Thinker…there ya go, Let's just stick to scripture.  Show me these terms in scripture: trinity triune three-in-one first person second person third person co-eternal co-equal They are not to be found so now what?  Do you want to now add extra-Biblical revelations and add words to the Bible?  Because that is what you are doing ya know. like “covenental God” where do you find that term?  You should really see what a person believes if they use merely the language of the Bible and become aware of the simple way God is explained by Jesus. Kathi Kathi, Neither is it said that God “reproduced.” Yet you infer this. Right? thinker Thinker, But it DOES say that his origins are from ancient times and that He is the  ONLY BEGOTTEN SON and that He is the same yesterday, today and forever.  Reproduction brings sons to life.  It is not hard.  The Supernatural reproduces another supernatural.  The most High designed reproduction and you think He couldn't reproduce?  The natural man reproduces another natural man.  Simple!

Hi Kathi

That is extra-Biblical language!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So is trinity
but you use it as a foundation?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,11:21)

Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,10:00) Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,09:39) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,20:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 30 2009,15:41) Hi all Shall I go a little further. Most of the feeding of the hungry, the healing of the sick, the feeding the sheep, the providing of shelters, the preaching of the word of God, providing clothing, the leading men to Christ, the taking care of the destitute, lonely, drug attics, alcaholics, sexually abused children, and on and on is done by Trinitarian works and not by those who have seprerated themselves from his people because they do no agree with the Trinity doctrine. Just ask everyone on this sight if it was a Trinitarian ministry that lead them to Jesus and you will see what I mean. Why is it that those who are led to Jesus leave that Jesus to accept another Jesus? WJ EXACTLY! And one of the reasons for this is that God showed Himself the example by coming down to our level and becoming one of us. He became immanent. The God of anti-trinitarians is not immanent. thinker Hi thethinker: No, not true, but God's attributes are manifest through the the life of Jesus as he obeyed the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty But Jesus was the one who was immanent and not God. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that God is immanent and at the same time deny that He can become flesh. The greatest strength of Trinitarianism is that it allows for God to be immanent. The god of anti-trinitarians cannot come down to us. This is pure Gnosticism. thinker Hi thethinker: God is a Spirit.   Quote Jhn 4:24   God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. God was in Christ: Quote 2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father: Quote Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.   Jhn 14:8   Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.   Jhn 14:9   Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?   Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.   Jhn 14:11   Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.   God made man in his own image: Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;   Hbr 1:3   Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;   Quote 1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. I don't see how this can be any clearer. Love in Christ, Maty

Marty,
This is all true but it's not the whole truth. God is not immanent unless He Himself has become like us.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Lightenup said:

Quote

Thinker, But it DOES say that his origins are from ancient times and that He is the  ONLY BEGOTTEN SON and that He is the same yesterday, today and forever.  Reproduction brings sons to life.  It is not hard.  The Supernatural reproduces another supernatural.  The most High designed reproduction and you think He couldn't reproduce?  The natural man reproduces another natural man.  Simple!

Kathi,
So you define words how you want and by a chain of inferences you conclude that God reproduced. Likewise trinitarians define words in such a way and through a chain of inferences draw conclusions. So the issue is not whether a term can be found in the Bible. The issue is whether or not the conclusions drawn are valid.

Your conclusions are NOT valid because your definitions are wrong. Isaac was not Abraham's “only begotten” by reproduction but by decree. The same is true of Christ but you have rejected this principle. Psalm 2 explicitly says that Christ was begotten BY DECREE and not by your pagan notion that God reproduced. You err in thinking there is only one way to be begotten.

What is your explanation of that part of Micah 5:2 which says that He is from “everlasting?”

Quote

Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting

.
Why do you cite only part of the statement?

And what about John 8:58? Jesus said “Before Abraham was I AM.” He did not say “I became.”

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Your personalised doctrines are bizarre.
God became like a man??

[KangarooJack]

TLightenup said to thinker:

Quote

Thinker, But it DOES say that his origins are from ancient times and that He is the  ONLY BEGOTTEN SON and that He is the same yesterday, today and forever.  Reproduction brings sons to life.  It is not hard.  The Supernatural reproduces another supernatural.  The most High designed reproduction and you think He couldn't reproduce?  The natural man reproduces another natural man.  Simple!

WJ replied:

Quote

Hi Kathi That is extra-Biblical language! WJ

Keith,
Kathi did not give all of Micah 5:2,

Quote

Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting

Her language is “extra-biblical as you say because her definitions are wrong. See my post immediately above.

thinker
.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,19:24)

Hi TT, Your personalised doctrines are bizarre. God became like a man??

The doctrine of the incarnation is “bizarre” to the Gnostics. To true Christians it is precious!

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Marty said to WJ:

Quote

Yes, brother we have seen God through the works of obedience that Jesus did in obedience to God our Father, and yes, Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person, but no, he is not God in the sence that the trinity teaches.

The Father called the Son “God” and attributed creation to Him. (Hebrews 1:6-10).

Did He create YOU Marty? And did the Father mean that the Son is the God of YOU? He is certainly not the Father's God. So when the Father said “O GOD” to the Son He must have meant that He is the God of YOU.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So If the Father calls the Son GOD then he has to be the god of someone? Why not us?
Your attachment to scriptural truth is so tenuous and your understandings so random and facile.

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,19:30)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2009,19:24) Hi TT, Your personalised doctrines are bizarre. God became like a man?? The doctrine of the incarnation is “bizarre” to the Gnostics. To true Christians it is precious! thinker

Hi TT,
Incarnation denies the existance of the Son of God.
Jesus told that is who he is.

How long will you persecute the Son of God?

[Lightenup]

Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,03:27)

TLightenup said to thinker: Quote Thinker, But it DOES say that his origins are from ancient times and that He is the  ONLY BEGOTTEN SON and that He is the same yesterday, today and forever.  Reproduction brings sons to life.  It is not hard.  The Supernatural reproduces another supernatural.  The most High designed reproduction and you think He couldn't reproduce?  The natural man reproduces another natural man.  Simple! WJ replied: Quote Hi Kathi That is extra-Biblical language! WJ Keith, Kathi did not give all of Micah 5:2, Quote Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting Her language is “extra-biblical as you say because her definitions are wrong. See my post immediately above. thinker .

Thinker,
Jesus was the only begotten Son of God before He was resurrected too. You miss that over and over.

As for Micah 5:2 the word for “from everlasting” is strong's #5769 and is translated as “of old” or “distant past” also.

All of these verses have that particular Hebrew word in it but you can see that it doesn't mean “from everlasting” in those verses:

Mic 5:2
2 But you, Bethlehem, David's country, the runt of the litter — From you will come the leader who will shepherd-rule Israel. He'll be no upstart, no pretender. His family tree is ancient and distinguished.
from THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary

Mic 5:1-2
A Ruler from Bethlehem 2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation

Mic 5:2
2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth — to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.
YLT

Deut 32:7
7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
KJV

Josh 24:2
2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
KJV
1 Sam 27:8
8 And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites, and the Amalekites: for those nations were of old the inhabitants of the land, as thou goest to Shur, even unto the land of Egypt.
KJV
Ps 77:5
5 I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times.
KJV
Ps 119:52
52 I remembered thy judgments of old, O Lord; and have comforted myself.
KJV
Prov 22:28
28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.
KJV
Eccl 1:10
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
KJV
Eccl 12:5-6
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
KJV
Isa 42:14
14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.
KJV
Isa 44:7
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people?
KJV
Isa 51:9
9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
KJV
Isa 63:9
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
KJV
Isa 63:11
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
KJV
Jer 5:15
15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
KJV
Jer 28:8
8 The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied both against many countries, and against great kingdoms, of war, and of evil, and of pestilence.
KJV

So, Thinker, maybe you haven't realized this. Do not be so quick to accuse me of wrong doing.

Also, regarding reproduction, how did your father get a son Thinker? Did you come to life by means of reproduction? Here is the normal, God designed way to get a son:

Reproduction is the biological process by which new individual organisms are produced. Reproduction is a fundamental feature of all known life; each individual organism exists as the result of reproduction. The known methods of reproduction are broadly grouped into two main types: sexual and asexual.
In asexual reproduction, an individual can reproduce without involvement with another individual of that species. The division of a bacterial cell into two daughter cells is an example of asexual reproduction. Asexual reproduction is not, however, limited to single-celled organisms. Most plants have the ability to reproduce asexually.
Sexual reproduction requires the involvement of two individuals, typically one of each sex. Normal human reproduction is a common example of sexual reproduction.

Kathi

[KangarooJack]

Lightenup said:

Quote

Jesus was the only begotten Son of God before He was resurrected too. You miss that over and over.

Kathi,
I don't “miss it.” I deny it. There are only three passages in the new testament that tell us WHEN Christ was begotten and they ALL say it was at His exaltation. You simply have no case. Sola Scriptura!

Quote

As for Micah 5:2 the word for “from everlasting” is strong's #5769 and is translated as “of old” or “distant past” also.

I have double checked this and when “olam” refers to the past it is not the limitless past. It simply means “long ago.” So I will concede to you on “olam” as it has reference to the past. HOWEVER…

The words “goings forth” are Strong's# 4163 & 3318  and refer to the ancient line of family descent from which He came..  In other words, it is saying that Christ as to His human origin came from an ancient line.

Sorry, your view that God “reproduced” fails. As to His divine origin He said, “Before Abraham was I AM.” He did not say, “Before Abraham was I became.”

You failed to prove it Kathi.

thinker

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,18:35)

Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,11:21) Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,10:00) Quote (942767 @ July 31 2009,09:39) Quote (thethinker @ July 30 2009,20:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 30 2009,15:41) Hi all Shall I go a little further. Most of the feeding of the hungry, the healing of the sick, the feeding the sheep, the providing of shelters, the preaching of the word of God, providing clothing, the leading men to Christ, the taking care of the destitute, lonely, drug attics, alcaholics, sexually abused children, and on and on is done by Trinitarian works and not by those who have seprerated themselves from his people because they do no agree with the Trinity doctrine. Just ask everyone on this sight if it was a Trinitarian ministry that lead them to Jesus and you will see what I mean. Why is it that those who are led to Jesus leave that Jesus to accept another Jesus? WJ EXACTLY! And one of the reasons for this is that God showed Himself the example by coming down to our level and becoming one of us. He became immanent. The God of anti-trinitarians is not immanent. thinker Hi thethinker: No, not true, but God's attributes are manifest through the the life of Jesus as he obeyed the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty But Jesus was the one who was immanent and not God. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that God is immanent and at the same time deny that He can become flesh. The greatest strength of Trinitarianism is that it allows for God to be immanent. The god of anti-trinitarians cannot come down to us. This is pure Gnosticism. thinker Hi thethinker: God is a Spirit.   Quote Jhn 4:24   God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. God was in Christ: Quote 2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   Jesus stated that we who have seen him have seen the Father: Quote Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.   Jhn 14:8   Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.   Jhn 14:9   Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?   Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.   Jhn 14:11   Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.   God made man in his own image: Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;   Hbr 1:3   Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;   Quote 1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. I don't see how this can be any clearer. Love in Christ, Maty Marty, This is all true but it's not the whole truth. God is not immanent unless He Himself has become like us. thinker

Hi Brother:

What is immanent are God's attributes.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Marty said:

Quote

Hi Brother: What is immanent are God's attributes. Love in Christ,

What is immanent is God Himself.

thinker

[942767]

Hi WJ:

You relative to the comment and question below:

Quote

You keep saying he is not God in the sense that the Trinity teaches. Then in what sense is he God?

In the sense that the scriptures state that he is. He is the “express image of God's person”.

Relative to your comments as stated below:

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Also tell me how to you Jesus is not the source based on the post that I made. This scripture in itself is Jesus claiming he is our source… And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. John 6:35 Jesus didn't say the Father is the bread of life did he?

This is what the scriptures state:

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Jhn 6:32   Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.   Jhn 6:33   For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

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Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

As for the rest of your comments, I know who my Lord is and what he has done for me, and I know that without him I could not have the privilege and honor of being a son of the most high God.  The God my Father dwells with in me by His Spirit as my helper and my Lord Jesus dwells within me by His Word.

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2Jo 1:9   Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.   2Jo 1:10   If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:   2Jo 1:11   For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

God has spoken to me by His Son and His Christ:

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Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son,

Is this nonsense or is this the truth?

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1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No, God is not a tri-une God, and teaching this is causing confusion the body of Christ, and the teaching is keeping some from confessing Jesus as Lord. But both you and I are responsible to God for what we teach.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Marty sdaid to WJ:

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The Spriit of God my Father dwells with in me by His Spirit as my helper and my Lord Jesus dwells within me by His Word.

This looks like the trinity to me. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

thinker

[Author]

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