Tradition

Participant

Hi Tim2,
The Spirit leads.
The Spirit cannot lead those who will not walk but stand leaning on tombstones of tradition.

April 27, 2007 at 1:07 am#50715

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ April 19 2007,17:11)

Hi Nick.
Still trying to earn your salvation? Christs' sacrefice not quite enough? “All is of God”. What part of “ALL” don't you understand?

Blessings.

Hi Chosenone:

I know that you are corresponding with Nick but if I may past the following scripture for your consideration:

Romans 6
6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ?
6:2
God forbid *. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein *
6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
6:8
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
6:9
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
6:10
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid *.
6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

God Bless

May 7, 2007 at 2:05 am#51545

Participant

Hi 94,
And
2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

May 7, 2007 at 4:35 am#51558

Participant

Quote (942767 @ April 27 2007,13:07)

Quote (chosenone @ April 19 2007,17:11)

Hi Nick.
Still trying to earn your salvation? Christs' sacrefice not quite enough? “All is of God”. What part of “ALL” don't you understand?

Blessings.

Hi Chosenone:

I know that you are corresponding with Nick but if I may past the following scripture for your consideration:

God Bless

Hi 942767, thanks for the scripture you sent for my consideration, I appreciate your input. Please look at “Tradition” in the Truth or tradition section for a little more of my thoughts regarding the salvation of all. Please let me know what your thoughts are after reading this posting.

Thanks again, Blessings.

May 11, 2007 at 2:13 am#51895

Participant

Hi Chosenone:

I have read your posts relative to salvation, and apparently, you are indicating that all men will be saved based on one scripture which states: 1 Ti 4:10
For therefore * * we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

This scripture indicates that Jesus has paid the judgment that was against all men if they choose to be reconciled to God through Jesus. Salvation is a gift from God. We did not earn it through perfect obedience to God's Word. The scripture states: Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; And it states: Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Apparently, you have not been born again or you would understand that salvation is deliverance from the consequence of sin which death or in the final consequence eternal separation from God. To be born again means that you have died to sin and have been raised from the dead (if you have not been born again you are dead to God or separated from him because of sin) even as Jesus was raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit of God. When this happens you not only believe that there is a God and that His testimony regarding His Son Jesus is true because the Holy Spirit in you testifies that your sins have been forgiven, and so you know that God is a reality, and not just simply just believe that He is a reality. He is now the Father of your spirit.

It would be nice if every one would be saved as you say but that simply is not true. The purpose of going into all the world and preaching the gospel, so that every man will have the opportunity to be saved, having heard the good news of the gospel.

Water Baptism signifies your union with Jesus in his death, burial and resurrection. In other words you have died to sin, your sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus, and you have been raised again from the dead just as Jesus by the Holy Spirit of God.

Col 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein * * also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth (5723) in you.
8:12
Therefore *, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 John 3
3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3:3
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth * also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot * sin, because he is born of God.
3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions that you would like to ask, feel free to ask? One more word of wisdom for you is that you cannot base your understanding of anything in the scriptures based solely on one scripture.

God Bless

May 11, 2007 at 6:27 am#51914

Participant

Hi 942767.
Thanks for the reply. Before I give my opinion, I would like to say that quoting scripture from the four gospels as meaning for us Gentiles, is a misunderstanding of scripture, Jesus's message was to the Jews, still under the 'Old Covenant' and the 'law'. “I (Jesus), was not commisioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt.15:24). Us 'gentiles' were not included until after Jesus' death and resurection, and made Known by the apostle Paul. See Ro.15:18…Christ has become the Servant of the circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God. Ro.15:16…given to me (Paul) from God, for me to be the minister of Jesus Christ for the nations (Gentiles). It is important not to confuse the teachings of Jesus, to the Jews, under the 'law', as being meant for us today. All scripture is FOR us, but not all is ABOUT us. We are told to “correctly cut the word of truth” (2Tim.2:15).
There are many scriptures quoting the salvation of all mankind, I will not quote them now, but I will later if you wish me to do so. I just wanted to make you aware of the difference of the teachings of Jesus, and the teachings of Paul. Hope not to offend.

Blessings.

May 11, 2007 at 10:15 pm#51928

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ May 11 2007,18:27)

Blessings.

Hi Chosenone:

Hebrews 1
1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I believe that you are misunderstanding scipture when you say that the gospels do not apply to us who are born again from the gentile nations.

While it is true that Jesus ministered primarily to the Nation of Israel(but not exclusively) while he was here on earth, the Word of God spoken through him is intended for all of humanity.

Matt. 16:15
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

We who are born again believers are the church of the Living God.

Matt. 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23
And then will I profess unto them *, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
7:24
Therefore whosoever * * heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (This instruction is directed to the whole church not just to the Jews)
7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
7:26
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
7:27
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Joh 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:(Jesus is talking about other sheep meaning those that are not of the Nation of Israel) them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I hope this helps. I believe that you need first to be born again if you haven't been, and then a little more study before you go out to teach others. You can not teach others until you are first taught yourself.

But I am not trying to offend you. Just trying to give you some good advice. I learned some of this wisdom the hard way.

God Bless

May 12, 2007 at 2:54 am#51934

Participant

Hi 942767.
So in Matt.15:24, Jesus said, “I was not commisioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel”, you say this is not so? So Jesus' statement is to be ignored because this is not true?
Also in Ro.15:8, For I (paul) am saying that Christ has become the servant of the circumcision (Jews), for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises. Again you say this is not so? How much other scripture are we to ignore?
Also, you have to be a Jew to be “born again” as quoted in the scripure to Israel. I, being a gentile, am a “new creation” when baptized by the Holy Spirit into the ecclesia (church), as quoted in the scripture pertaining to gentiles.
Thanks for your “good advice”, but I think I'll stay with scripture instead.

Blessings.

May 12, 2007 at 3:30 am#51936

Participant

Hi Chosenone:

I will paste the scripture Matt. 24f in context and let's see to whom Jesus is talking and what is the end result of his converstation.

Matt.15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
15:23
But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
15:26
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
15:27
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

And so we see that Jesus was speaking to a Canaanite woman who was asking for his help, and because of her faith he healed her daughter.

What I said was:

While it is true that Jesus ministered primarily to the Nation of Israel(but not exclusively) while he was here on earth, the Word of God spoken through him is intended for all of humanity.

He also had the following conversation with a Samaritan woman:

John 4:7
There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
4:8
(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
4:9
Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
4:10
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
4:11
The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
4:12
* Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof * * himself, and his children, and his cattle?
4:13
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
4:14
But whosoever * * drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never * * * thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
4:15
The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
4:16
Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
4:17
The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said *, I have no husband:
4:18
For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
4:19
The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
4:20
Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
4:21
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh *, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
4:25
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
4:26
Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
4:27
And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou ? or, Why talkest thou with her?
4:28
The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
4:29
Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

But I have given you good advice, however, you have a “free will”. You can accept what I have said to you or you can reject it, just as you can accept or reject God's gift of salvation.

God bless

May 13, 2007 at 5:41 am#51977

Participant

Hi 942767.
I find your explanation of who the scriptures are written too, a bit confusing. When Jesus healed the daughter of the Canaan woman, He plainly told her that He was commisioned only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Also when speaking to the Samaritian woman, He said (Jn.4:22)-Your quote- Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Please quote me the scripture where it says that Jesus's message was also for the Gentiles. Also scripture that states we have “free will”.
Following is something you may need to “correctly cut the word of truth” (2Tim.2:15)

Circumcision Scriptures
Concerning the Kingdom of God, in Fulfillment of the Hebrew Scriptures

MATTHEW PRESENTS THE KING
Say to the daughter of Zion, “Lo! Your King…”
– Matthew 21:5

SENT TO ISRAEL

“I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
– Matthew 15:24

MARK PRESENTS THE SERVANT
“The Son of Mankind came, not to be served, but to serve…”
– Mark 10:45

WHO SERVED ISRAEL

“Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord.”
– Mark 12:29

LUKE PRESENTS THE PERFECT MAN
“Really, this Man was just.”
– Luke 23:47

THE GLORY OF ISRAEL

“The Glory of Thy people Israel.”
– Luke 2:32

JOHN PRESENTS THE SON OF GOD
“He came out from God, and is going away to God.”
– John 13:3

MANIFESTED TO ISRAEL

“that He may be manifested to Israel…”
– John 1:31

ACTS PRESENTS THE TRANSITION
“To you (the Jews) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet since … you are thrusting it away … lo! we are turning to the nations.”
-Acts 13:46

HEBREWS – A NEW COVENANT WITH ISRAEL
“Lo! the days are coming,” the Lord is saying, “And I shall be concluding with the house of Israel and with the house
of Judah a new covenant.”
– Hebrews 8:8

JAMES – SALVATION BY WORKS
The faith cannot save him.
– James 2:14

APPLICABLE TO THE TWELVE TRIBES

James … to the twelve tribes in the dispersion.
– James 1:1

PETER'S PROMISES TO THE CHOSEN RACE
Yet you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation…
– 1 Peter 2:9

JOHN STRESSES THE LAW
And in this we know that we know Him, if we should be keeping His precepts.
– 1 John 2:3

TO THOSE WHO CAME OUT

they came out for the sake of the Name, getting nothing from those of the nations.
– 3 John 7

JUDE – A REMINDER TO THOSE ONCE AWARE
to remind you, you who once are aware of all, that the Lord, when saving the people out of the land of Egypt, secondly destroys those who believe not.
– Jude 5

REVELATION – JEWISH PROMISES FULFILLED
“I have granted to those… (who are saying that they themselves are Jews, and are not, but are lying) Lo! I shall be making them that they will be arriving and worshipping before your feet, and they may know that I love you.”

May 13, 2007 at 5:47 am#51980

Participant

Hi again, Just to point out in Acts 13:46 above, God did not turn to the nations (Gentiles), until after the death and resurection of Christ Jesus, when the Jews rejected Him again.

May 20, 2007 at 7:39 pm#52709

Participant

No reply to the last two posts?

Blessings.

May 20, 2007 at 7:46 pm#52711

Participant

Hi CO,
Acts 14
” 27And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles. “

Indeed the Jews were amazed. But does this say when it happened?

May 20, 2007 at 8:19 pm#52723

Participant

Hi Nick, yes, it happened after the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus, and the Jews rejection of Him still. See Acts 13:46-47. “Yet, since, in fact, you (the Jews), are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations (gentiles).

Blessings.

May 20, 2007 at 8:50 pm#52727

Participant

Hi CO,
Do you think that is when it happened? Did Paul have the right to make that decision? Or was he just letting them know the wild olive was already being grafted into the tree?

May 21, 2007 at 2:43 am#52734

Participant

Hi Nick.
Paul (then known as Saul) was made an apostle of Christ Jesus when he was struck down by Him on the road to Damascus. (Acts 9:5-6). When he said “Who are You Lord?” Yet He said, “I am Jesus Whom you are persecuting. Nevertheless, rise and enter the city, and it will be spoken to you what you must be doing”. This was Jesus talking to him (Saul).
Don't you think that this plainly says that Christ Jesus gave him that right?

Blessings.

May 21, 2007 at 3:19 am#52737

Participant

Hi CO,
Being sent on a mission does not give him the right to direct that mission, no.
He was led by The Spirit of God.

May 21, 2007 at 3:51 am#52748

Participant

Hi Nick.
“, and it will be spoken to you what you must be doing”. Voice of Christ Jesus! (part of my above post.)

Blessings.

May 22, 2007 at 4:08 am#52835

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ May 21 2007,07:39)

No reply to the last two posts?

Blessings.

Hi Chosenone:

As to the response to the Canaanite woman, the Jews looked upon the Gentiles as dogs, and so that is why Jesus spoke to her the way that he did relative to him being sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but as you see, he healed her daughter, and so his ministry is to all of humanity not just to the Jews.

The Apostle Peter's ministry was also to the Jews but Cornelius who was a gentile was saved in his ministry, and Peter said after Cornelius was saved:

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
10:36
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: * (he is Lord of all:)

And to the Samaritan woman Jesus said:

John 4:9
Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
4:10
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

God Bless

May 22, 2007 at 6:22 am#52840