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Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 19 2006,07:23) Good grief Nick, what do you want? I thought Jesus declaring the Holy Spirit to be “He” would suffice! It certainly does it for me without having to look further.
Amen Oxy,Hi Nick,
Are you STILL saying the Holy Spirit is not a person?
Any answers on the following YET?
Here are those FORTY PERSONAL ATTRIBUTES AGAIN!
1) Helps: Jn 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:7, Rom 8:26, 1 Jn 2:1.
2) Glorifies: Jn 16:13-14.
3) Can be Known: Jn 14:17.
4) Gives Abilities: Acts 2:4, 1 Cor 12:7-11.
5) Referred to as “He”: Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:7-8,13.
6) Loves: Rom 15:30.
7) Guides: Jn 16:13.
8) Comforts: Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, Acts 9:31.
9) Teaches: Lk 12:12, Jn 14:26.
10) Reminds: Jn 14:26.
11) Bears Witness: Jn 15:26, Acts 5:32, Rom 8:16.
12) Has Impulses: Jn 16:13.
13) Hears: Jn 16:13.
14) Leads: Mt 4:1, Acts 8:39, Rom 8:14.
15) Pleads: Rom 8:26-27.
16) Longs (Yearns): Jas 4:5.
17) Wills: 1 Cor 12:11.
18) Thinks: Acts 15:25,28.
19) Sends: Acts 13:4.
20) Dispatches: Acts 10:20.
21) Impels: Mk 1:12.
22) Speaks: Jn 16:13-15, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 13:2.
23) Forbids: Acts 16:6-7.
24) Appoints: Acts 20:28.
25) Reveals: Lk 2:26, 1 Cor 2:10.
26) Calls to Ministry: Acts 13:2.
27) Can be Grieved: Is 63:10, Eph 4:30.
28) Can be Insulted: Heb 10:29.
29) Can be Lied to: Acts 5:3-4.
30) Can be Blasphemed: Mt 12:31-32.
31) Strives: Gen 6:3.
32) Is Knowledgeable: Is 40:13, Acts 10:19, 1 Cor 2:10-13.
33) Can be Vexed: Is 63:10.
34) Judges: Jn 16:8.
35) Prophesies: Acts 21:11, 28:25, 1 Tim 4:1.
36) Has Fellowship: 2 Cor 13:14.
37) Gives Grace: Heb 10:29.
38) Agrees: 1 Jn 5:7-8.
39) Offers Life: 2 Cor 3:6, Rev 22:17.
40) Is the Creator: Job 33:4.So the Son sends the Father? Oh really?
Joh 16:7 But I TELL YOU THE TRUTH: it is expedient to you that I go. For if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you: but if I go, I WILL SEND HIM TO YOU.
So if the Holy Spirit is the Father who does the Father hear to know what to speak?
Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL TRUTH. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things SOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, he SHALL SPEAK. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: because he shall receive of mine and shall shew it to you.So the Father intercedes to himself?
Rom 8:26 Likewise, the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For, we know not what we should pray for as we ought: BUT THE SPIRIT HIMSELF ASKETH FOR US WITH UNSPEAKABLE GROANINGS,
What does another comforter mean? Is it ANOTHER Father?
Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you ANOTHER PARACLETE, that he may abide with you for ever:
The word of God comes forth from God just as the Holy Spirit also comes forth from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father and am come into the world: again I leave the world and I go to the Father.
Joh 16:29 His disciples say to him: Behold, now thou speakest plainly and speakest no proverb.
Joh 16:30 Now we know that thou knowest all things and thou needest not that any man should ask thee. BY THIS WE BELIEVE THAT THOU CAMEST FORTH FROM GOD.
Joh 16:31 JESUS ANSWERED THEM: DO YOU NOW BELIEVE?COMPARE
Joh 15:26 But when the PARACLETE COMETH, whom I WILL SEND you FROM THE FATHER, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth FROM THE FATHER, he shall give testimony of me.
So the Holy Spirit comes forth from God and is God but the Son comes forth from God and is not God. Sorry but it sounds like creation judging the creator?
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, GOD HIMSELF THAT FORMED THE EARTH, AND MADE IT, THE VERY MAKER THEREOF: he did not create it in vain: he formed it to be inhabited. I AM THE LORD, AND THERE IS NO OTHER.
Blessings
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 18 2006,20:27) Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Aug. 18 2006,13:37) Hi T8, We are adopted Sons and are not true Sons. If we say we are true Sons we claim to be the true nature of the Father, there is only one who is the exact image of his nature/essence.
Rom 8:15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again in fear: but you have received the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).
Rom 8:23 And not only it, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit: even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the ADOPTION of the SONS OF GOD, the redemption of our body.
Most importantly “what” makes us adopted Sons of God… Do we directly derive our Sonship from the Father alone without the work of His only true Son.
Gal 4:5 That he might redeem them who were under the law: that we might receive the ADOPTION of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the SPIRIT OF HIS SON into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father.1Pe 4:14 If you be reproached for the name of Christ, you shall be blessed: for that WHICH IS OF THE HONOUR, GLORY AND POWER OF GOD, and that WHICH IS HIS SPIRIT resteth upon you.
Eph 1:5 Who hath predestinated us unto the ADOPTION of children through Jesus Christ unto himself: according to the purpose of his will:
Eph 1:6 Unto the praise of the GLORY OF HIS GRACE, in which he hath graced us, IN HIS BELOVED SON.It is by the Fathers charity the Sons grace and the communication of the Holy Spirit we can become adopted Sons of God.
1Jo 1:2 FOR THE LIFE WAS MANIFESTED: and we have seen and do bear witness and declare unto you the life eternal, WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER and hath appeared to us.
Without the true Son we are not Sons this is why we are called adopted Sons.
True earthly Sons don’t rely on other Sons to make them Sons…. We have to rely on Jesus because we haven’t got the Nature/Essence of the Father, we are Sons only in the True Son.1Jo 5:11 And this is the testimony that God hath given to us eternal life. AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life. HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON HATH NOT LIFE.
1Jo 5:13 These things I write to you that you may know that you have eternal life: you who BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD.
1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come. And he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God and may be in his TRUE SON. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND LIFE ETERNAL.There is only one Son of God who can claim the true nature of the Father?
1Jo 1:5 And this is the declaration which we have heard from him and declare unto you: That GOD IS LIGHT and in him there is no darkness.
Only the Jesus is the true Son the True Nature of the Father.Joh 1:9 THAT WAS THE TRUE LIGHT, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
Joh 1:10 HE WAS IN THE WORLD: AND THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM: and the world knew him not.So Jesus the Son of God can be true God by nature just as a true Son of Man can be true Man by nature.
I believe we need to understand earthly concepts before we can understand heavenly concepts.
Also,
Yes the Catholic Church does teach that the Trinity is one BUT not one in Solitude. A Wife and a Husband are one flesh but they are not one flesh in Solitude.
254 THE DIVINE PERSONS ARE REALLY DISTINCT FROM ONE ANOTHER. “God is one BUT NOT SOLITARY.” “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” ARE NOT SIMPLY NAMES designating modalities of the divine being, FOR THEY ARE REALLY DISTINCT FROM ONE ANOTHER: “He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son.” THEY ARE DISTINCT FROM ONE ANOTHER IN THEIR RELATIONS OF ORIGIN: “It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds.” THE DIVINE UNITY IS TRIUNE.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: “In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance.” Indeed “everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship.” “Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son.”
240 JESUS REVEALED THAT GOD IS FATHER IN AN UNHEARD-OF SENSE: HE IS FATHER NOT ONLY IN BEING CREATOR; HE IS ETERNALLY FATHER IN RELATION TO HIS ONLY SON, who is eternally Son only in relation to his Father: “No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
241 For this reason the apostles confess Jesus to be the Word: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”; as “the image of the invisible God”; as the “radiance of the glory of God and the very stamp of his nature”.
God has reveal himself as alone, who alone created the heavens and alone is the Saviour. God has revealed Himself as One but one in plural terms not one in solitude.
This is why the Church claims God to be one but not in solitude. Like the Father and the Son are one but they are not one in Solitude. Just the same as the following scripture reveals.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Blessings in the name of Jesus.
HI SS,
So when a branch is grafted onto a vine in your opinion it is not truly part of that vine even if it functions as it should and produces fruit in season?Jesus is the vine and we are the branches.
And is not a toe truly a part of a body as much as the head of that body is?
We are in the body of Christ.
Jesus is happy to call us brothers and makes no distinction because we are adopted.
Why should you?
We still call our Father 'Abba Father' and He loves us as His sons in His Son so why should our adoption be brought up?
Do you not yet share in the nature of the Son of God? We are meant to produce fruit and that fruit is the nature of Christ,
Love, tolerance, kindness, longsuffering.and all the fruit seen in Gal 5.
If we do not yet produce in us that fruit nor share those gifts he used of the Spirit you are right, we are not yet sons as sons have the Spirit of Christ.But we should.
And we should also have God at work within us too.
Phil 2.13
” God is at work in you to will and to do”By the Spirit and by abiding in the Word we have the Father and the Son according to the promises of God.
So all the other trinity additions are only the unnecessary trappings men have added and because thay are not from the scriptures they are not from God.
Hi Nick,Jesus is both the vine/gate “the Son of Man” and the Son of God, remember Jesus has two natures.
33. EQUAL TO THE FATHER AS TOUCHING HIS GODHEAD: INFERIOR TO THE FATHER AS TOUCHING HIS MANHOOD.
34. And although He be God and Man; yet He is not two, BUT ONE CHRIST.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God.
36. One altoget
her, not by confusion of substance; but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ.
38. Who suffered for our salvation: descended into Hades: rose again the third day from the dead.Yes we do become Sons this is what I have said.
Without the true Son we are not Sons this is why we are called adopted Sons.
TRUE EARTHLY SONS DON’T RELY ON OTHER SONS TO MAKE THEM SONS…. We have to rely on Jesus because we haven’t got the Nature/Essence of the Father, we are Sons only in the True Son.1Jo 5:11 And this is the testimony that God hath given to us eternal life. AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life. HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON HATH NOT LIFE.
1Jo 5:13 These things I write to you that you may know that you have eternal life: you who BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD.
1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come. And he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God and may be in his TRUE SON. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND LIFE ETERNAL.God’s word testifies the true meaning of the true Son of God.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God WAS HIS FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.
Luk 22:70 Then said they all: Art thou then the Son of God? Who said: You say that I am.
Luk 22:71 And they said: WHAT NEED WE ANY FURTHER TESTIMONY? For we ourselves have heard it from his own mouth.Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, WHEREFORE DIDST THOU DOUBT?
Mat 14:32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
Mat 14:33 Then THEY THAT WERE IN THE SHIP CAME AND WORSHIPPED [proskuneō] him, saying, OF A TRUTH THOU ART THE SON OF GOD.They worshipped him when they realized that Jesus was truly the Son of God, they understood the true meaning just as the High priests also understood, but instead of worshipping him they did not believe him… This is why he was crucified.
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
Mat 16:17 AND JESUS ANSWERING SAID TO HIM: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, BUT MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.Mat 27:50 JESUS, WHEN HE HAD CRIED AGAIN WITH A LOUD VOICE, YIELDED UP THE GHOST.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, THEY FEARED GREATLY, saying, TRULY THIS WAS THE SON OF GOD.Are you Truly THE Son of God or are you an adopted Son of God?
Nick is your Spirit the same as Nature as the Spirit of Jesus, can you say when we see you we see the Father?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
Joh 1:2 THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 IN HIM WAS LIFE; AND THE LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN.True Son of God = True God just as a True Son of Man = True Man.
Do you only see Jesus in the Flesh, do you not look at His Spirit do you believe he has a spirit?
The disciples understood what was meant by Jesus being the Son of God, stop doubting and believe Jesus is the true Son of God. God is Light and Jesus is that true light he is the Lord of Glory and the Lord of Lords.
Blessing’s in the name of Jesus.
Hi SS,
You say
“Here are those FORTY PERSONAL ATTRIBUTES AGAIN”Personal attributes do not establish a doctrine of a separate person.
Scripture establishes teachings for the Church of God, not implications however strong.Lk 12.10
” 10″(D)And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. “Acts 5.3f
” 3But Peter said, “Ananias, why has ÂSatan filled your heart to lie (D)to the Holy Spirit and to (E)keep back some of the price of the land?4″While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but (F)to God.”
5And as he heard these words, Ananias (G)fell down and breathed his last; and (H)great fear came over all who heard of it.
6The young men got up and (I)covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.”
Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than that against the Son of God?
Why can lying to the Spirit result in instant death while men lied to Jesus all day long?Because God is greater than the vessel of Jesus and it is an assault against God's Spirit.
Hi SS,
You quoted;
“33. EQUAL TO THE FATHER AS TOUCHING HIS GODHEAD: INFERIOR TO THE FATHER AS TOUCHING HIS MANHOOD.
34. And although He be God and Man; yet He is not two, BUT ONE CHRIST.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance; but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ.
38. Who suffered for our salvation: descended into Hades: rose again the third day from the dead”These words are those of men. They may well be treated with reverence in your tradition but this is a biblical froum when the bible is regarded as sacred far above those teachings of any men so please spare us these triflings.
Hi SS,
Indeed as you show here the scriptures clearly state
that Jesus is the Son of God
and not the God of whom he is the son.“1Jo 5:11 And this is the testimony that God hath given to us eternal life. AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life. HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON HATH NOT LIFE.
1Jo 5:13 These things I write to you that you may know that you have eternal life: you who BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD.
1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come. And he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God and may be in his TRUE SON. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD AND LIFE ETERNAL.God’s word testifies the true meaning of the true Son of God.”
“The disciples understood what was meant by Jesus being the Son of God, stop doubting and believe Jesus is the true Son of God.”
Since the life is in the Son
and I have no doubts about this
it is vital that you know the Son
as distinct from the God who anointed him
so you too can find that life.Hi SS,
Come again
“…. We have to rely on Jesus because we haven’t got the Nature/Essence of the Father, we are Sons only in the True Son.”So because of the divine origins of the Son of God when we are baptised into him unto eternity you say we are not really part of him, in his body, and we do not really share that life???
So what on earth is the logic involved here and to what does it relate??
If God accepts us as His sons is that not good enough for you??.
Hi SS,
You say
“They worshipped him when they realized that Jesus was truly the Son of God, they understood the true meaning just as the High priests also understood, but instead of worshipping him they did not believe him… This is why he was crucified.Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.”
So in what way does
Son of God
mean
God Himself ??Surely you know that all will bow the knee to the Son of God in whom dwells God Himself?
Hi SS,
You ask;“Nick is your Spirit the same as Nature as the Spirit of Jesus, can you say when we see you we see the Father?”
Rom 8.
“16The Spirit Himself (AF)testifies with our spirit that we are (AG)children of God,”I have my own spirit that gives this old body life today and within me is the Spirit of Christ unto eternity.
What about you?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2006,08:55) Hi SS,
You say
“They worshipped him when they realized that Jesus was truly the Son of God, they understood the true meaning just as the High priests also understood, but instead of worshipping him they did not believe him… This is why he was crucified.Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.”
So in what way does
Son of God
mean
God Himself ??Surely you know that all will bow the knee to the Son of God in whom dwells God Himself?
Hi Nick,You need to grasp simple earthly things before you can grasp heavenly. If you want to build a foundation on Jesus you need to understand WHAT He is, not just who He is.
So “What” nature and substance is the Son of God the Creator and Saviour?
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, HOW SHALL YE BELIEVE, IF I TELL YOU OF HEAVENLY THINGS?
A true Son of Man is true Man, the true Son of God is true God.
We need the Son of God to be adopted Sons of God, the Son of God doesn't need us to be the Son of God because He is the only true Son of God.
Don't you believe the Father is a perfect Father, why insult his Fatherhood?
Blessings
Hi SS,
I ask again.
Of what relevance is it to be an adopted Son of God if God has accepted us as His sons?We are in the Son of God, covered by the royal robe of righteousness and with the ring of authority and power on our fingers unto eternal life.
We are branches in his vine.You may enjoy musing about the aspects of divine nature that are not given to us to know but we are happy to be safe in the Son. We do not build on knowledge but on fact and faith and then add knowledge.
So tell us again why the Son having a divine origin, yet fully sharing our estate, affects our wonderful inheritance in him.
Hi SS,
You say
“Are you STILL saying the Holy Spirit is not a person?”I am waiting patiently for you to show where scripture declares such a thing to be true
rather than the poor fare of opinion and inference you have come up with so far.
You will know of course that if it is true it will stated in scripture
as that is the only reliable basis we have for knowledge about God.
So we can all know and share this new revelation keep up the biblical research
as it is the only evidence that carries weight in this forum.Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 19 2006,07:23) Good grief Nick, what do you want? I thought Jesus declaring the Holy Spirit to be “He” would suffice! It certainly does it for me without having to look further.
Hi Oxy,
Come on. You know inference is unreliable.
Come up with facts from the source we share,
the scriptures,if you really do respect the scriptures as you say you do.
Hi SS,
You quote
“Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL TRUTH. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things SOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, he SHALL SPEAK. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: because he shall receive of mine and shall shew it to you.”Did you not know the Spirit of God, as the finger of God on earth, helps us serve our God in heaven?
Rom 8
” 26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for (BB)we do not know how to pray as we should, but (BC)the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27and (BD)He who searches the hearts knows what (BE)the mind of the Spirit is, because He (BF)intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.28And we know that [c]God causes (BG)all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are (BH)called according to His purpose”
Is not our God wonderful even helping us serve Him by the work of His amazing Spirit??
Hi SS,
You say
“So the Holy Spirit comes forth from God and is God but the Son comes forth from God and is not God. Sorry but it sounds like creation judging the creator?”Was the Son anointed by the Spirit ?
If so did God anoint one member of the trinity with another member of the trinity?
hmmmHi SS,
You say
“So if the Holy Spirit is the Father who does the Father hear to know what to speak?”Lk 11.20
” 20″But if I cast out demons by the (O)finger of God, then (P)the kingdom of God has come upon you.”
Mt 12.28
” 28″But (AF)if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you”The finger of God is of the Father, as a finger is of a person, and not separate from the person.
God is in heaven but works through what He calls “my Spirit”on earth [Jl2]
Can a finger work on behalf of the person?
Does a finger fully represent that person as in the shaking of hands?
If you mistreat a finger of a person are you mistreating the whole person?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2006,10:42) Hi SS,
You say
“So the Holy Spirit comes forth from God and is God but the Son comes forth from God and is not God. Sorry but it sounds like creation judging the creator?”Was the Son anointed by the Spirit ?
If so did God anoint one member of the trinity with another member of the trinity?
hmmm
Hi Nick,
I have answered this for you already.Here is goes again,
But did Jesus really have to wait until he was thirty years old to receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit in his baptism? NO!
We know he was already full of grace and truth. He already had the glory of the only begotten of the Father.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.Jesus always had the fullness of the Holy Spirit, “the word” has always contained the breath of the Holy Spirit. In unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit the Son created EVERYTHING including the invisible spirits in heaven, nothing was made without him.
In fact Jesus baptism is the revelation of the new creation by the Father Son and the Holy Spirit…This will be revealed soon.So Jesus as the Son of God “the word” changes not, “this is who he is”.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ, YESTERDAY, AND TODAY: AND THE SAME FOR EVER.
Even John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in his Mothers Womb!
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great before the Lord and shall drink no wine nor strong drink: AND HE SHALL BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, EVEN FROM HIS MOTHER'S WOMB.
And his Mother Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit upon the entry of Mary carry the true light of the world in her womb.
Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; AND ELISABETH WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST:
So why was he baptized?
To understand why Jesus was baptized we need to understand what the word Christ means and we need to also understand what it means to be a Priest and Prophet.
Joh 1:41 He findeth first his brother Simon and saith to him: We have found the Messias, WHICH IS, BEING INTERPRETED, THE CHRIST.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith to him: I know that the Messias cometh (WHO IS CALLED CHRIST): therefore, when he is come, he will tell us all things.
The word Christ comes from the Greek translation of the Hebrew word Messiah, which means “Anointed”.
G5547 Χριστός Christos khris-tos'
FROM G5548; ANOINTED, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: – Christ.G5548χρίω chriō khree'-o
Probably akin to G5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, that is, (by implication) TO CONSECRATE TO AN OFFICE OR RELIGIOUS SERVICE: – ANOINT.Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly. All high priest and prophets where anointed unto the lord in the priests office!
Lev 7:35 THIS IS THE PORTION OF THE ANOINTING OF AARON, and of the ANOINTING OF HIS SONS, out of the offerings of the LORD made by fire, IN THE DAY WHEN HE PRESENTED THEM TO MINISTER UNTO THE LORD IN THE PRIEST'S OFFICE;
The Son “the word” knew that the Father had made it a commandment that to minister as a High Priest he had first to be “anointed”. This was commanded by his Father as a statute FOREVER.
Lev 7:36 Which the LORD commanded to be given them of the children of Israel, IN THE DAY THAT HE ANOINTED THEM, by A STATUTE FOR EVER THROUGHOUT THEIR GENERATIONS.
Lev 8:12 And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and ANOINTED HIM, TO SANCTIFY HIM.
Exo 29:44 And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I WILL SANCTIFY ALSO BOTH AARON AND HIS SONS, TO MINISTER TO ME IN THE PRIEST'S OFFICE.
Exo 40:13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and ANOINT HIM, and SANCTIFY HIM; THAT HE MAY MINISTER UNTO ME IN THE PRIEST'S OFFICE.
The anointing was to sanctify Aaron and his Sons to be able to minister in the priests office. BUT Jesus did not need to be sanctified
Joh 17:19 And FOR THEIR SAKES I SANCTIFY MYSELF, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
John came to bear witnesses that Jesus was the Christ “the Messiah”. He had to be anointed to be prove he was the Christ.
John is asked if he is the Christ because he is baptizing.. Who does he bear witnesses of?
Joh 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, WHY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE NOT THAT CHRIST, NOR ELIAS, NEITHER THAT PROPHET?
Joh 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;Here he declares the Messiah.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, WHOSE SHOES I AM NOT WORTHY TO BEAR: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, AND WITH FIRE:
All this was to bear witnesses to ISREAL, that Jesus was the Christ!
Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: BUT THAT HE SHOULD BE MADE MANIFEST TO ISRAEL, therefore am I come baptizing with water.Jesus did not need to be sanctified, it was for our sakes he was sanctified so Israel would know he was the Christ and so then they could be sanctified with His word which is “the word of truth”.
Joh 17:19 And FOR THEIR SAKES I SANCTIFY MYSELF, THAT THEY ALSO MIGHT BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE TRUTH.
Jesus DID NOT NEED ANY SINS TO BE WASHED AWAY but instead our sins are washed away by his obedience.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, WHO KNEW NO SIN; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22 WHO DID NO SIN, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; AND IN HIM IS NO SIN.This is why John the Baptist reveals he is the Lamb of God even before he is Baptized.
Joh 1:29 The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. BEHOLD HIM WHO TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!Jesus accepts and submits himself entirely to his Fathers will as the Messiah. The Father is well pleased and reveals his Son as the Messiah to Israel BY SENDING THE ANOINTING AND CONFIRMS HE IS WELL PLEASED. The Son is by whom all things are made so it was fitting that by him the new creation was made..
This is a preclude of the new creation also.. Compare the new births of the Water and the Dove.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from HEAVEN LIKE A DOVE, AND IT ABODE UPON HIM.
Gen 8:11 AND THE DOVE CAME IN TO HIM IN THE EVENING; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth
By the ANOINTING Jesus accepts his life as the messiah, the “anointed one”.
Jesus can now confirm that he is the “anointed one” to the synagogue.Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year OF THE LORD.ALL BARE HIM WITNESS
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, THIS DAY IS THIS SCRIPTURE FULFILLED IN YOUR EARS.
Luk 4:22 AND ALL BARE HIM WITNESS, and wondered at the gracious word
s which proceeded out of his mouth. AND THEY SAID, IS NOT THIS JOSEPH'S SON?He allows himself to be numbered among the sinners to open the heavens that the first Adam closed. This is why the word was made flesh and he accepts his Father will and is anointed in the baptism which will lead to his death so when we are baptized we can be raised in his glory.
Rom 6:4 For we are BURIED TOGETHER WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.
Col 2:12 BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM: in whom also you are risen again by the faith of THE OPERATION OF GOD WHO HATH RAISED HIM UP FROM THE DEAD.
Who raised Jesus from the dead….THE OPERATION OF GOD
The Father
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, AND GOD THE FATHER, WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD;)The Holy Spirit
Rom 8:11 But if THE SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.The Son
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, DESTROY THIS TEMPLE, AND IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE IT UP.Again it is BY the Son and FROM the commandment of the Father…
Col 2:12…. THE OPERATION OF GOD WHO HATH RAISED HIM UP FROM THE DEAD.Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, AND I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. THIS COMMANDMENT HAVE I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER.Look at what the Jews say about him….
Joh 10:20 And many of them said, HE HATH A DEVIL, AND IS MAD; WHY HEAR YE HIM?
Now what does Jesus reveal to them….
Joh 10:25 JESUS ANSWERED THEM, I TOLD YOU, AND YE BELIEVED NOT: THE WORKS THAT I DO IN MY FATHER'S NAME, THEY BEAR WITNESS OF ME.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. AND NO MAN SHALL PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.
Joh 10:29 That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: AND NO ONE CAN SNATCH THEM OUT OF THE HAND OF MY FATHER.
Joh 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.Here we have a revelation within the New Testament…the operation of God that raised him from the dead we also have a revelation from the Old Testament as well….
Deu 32:39 See ye that I ALONE AM, and THERE IS NO OTHER God besides me: I will kill and I will make to live: I will strike, and I will heal, AND THERE IS NONE THAT CAN DELIVER OUT OF MY HAND.
Deu 32:40 I will lift up my hand to heaven, AND I WILL SAY: I LIVE FOR EVER.SEE YE THAT I AM ALONE…. Now who is the first and last that who says I live for ever?
The revelations don’t stop there but this is another subject….
So the name Messiah means “anointed one” and the name Jesus means “God saves”.
Blessings in the name of the Jesus
Hi SS<
You quote
“Joh 15:26 But when the PARACLETE COMETH, whom I WILL SEND you FROM THE FATHER, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth FROM THE FATHER, he shall give testimony of me.”Why do you not believe what you quote as it says the Spirit proceeds, not has proceeded, from the Father?
Yet scripture says about the Son in Jn 16.27f
“27for (A)the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and (B)have believed that ÂI came forth from the Father.28″(D)I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and (E)going to the Father.”
He came forth from God
AND
Came into the world.You are happy to state Jesus is
the eternally begotten Son of God
meaning that he actually never completely was
begotten as a son
but is still in God,
and yet you declare the Spirit
to be another person in God
and yet strangely not called another son.Why?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2006,10:36) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 19 2006,07:23) Good grief Nick, what do you want? I thought Jesus declaring the Holy Spirit to be “He” would suffice! It certainly does it for me without having to look further.
Hi Oxy,
Come on. You know inference is unreliable.
Come up with facts from the source we share,
the scriptures,if you really do respect the scriptures as you say you do.
Good grief Nick, how many times to I have to say it?Here's the evidence Nick.
Jesus said Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.
If Jesus calls the Holy Spirit He, that's good enough for me.
Why can't you accept this Scripture Nick? I don't understand.
Hi Oxy,
I love all scripture.
So what you see written below:
“Jesus said Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.is sufficient proof for you that the Holy Spirit is a person?
You disappoint me.
No wonder you have so readily swallowed the trinity theory.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2006,11:04) Hi Oxy,
I love all scripture.
So what you see written below:
“Jesus said Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.is sufficient proof for you that the Holy Spirit is a person?
You disappoint me.
No wonder you have so readily swallowed the trinity theory.
So I guess what you're saying here Nick, is that just because Jesus said it, we shouldn't be too hasty to believe it?There are other Scriptures, but why go digging for the gold in the ground when sufficient is at hand?
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