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Hi,
From SS 's site
Here are Martin Luther's views on the importance of tradition.
Of course he was to reject some aspects of catholicism so the words do hang limp in the air.“This testimony of the universal holy Christian Church, even if we had nothing else, would be a sufficient warrant for holding this article [on the sacrament] and refusing to suffer or listen to a sectary, for it is dangerous and fearful to hear or believe anything against the unanimous testimony, belief, and teaching of the universal holy Christian churches, unanimously held in all the world from the beginning until now over fifteen hundred years.
(Martin Luther, in the year 1532;
Hi ,
Here is SS's view of the relatuionship between scripture and tradition.“In Catholicism, Scripture and Tradition are intrinsically interwoven. They have been described as “twin fonts of the one divine well-spring” (i.e., Revelation), and cannot be separated, any more than can two wings of a bird. A theology which attempts to sunder this organic bond is ultimately logically self-defeating, unbiblical, and divorced from the actual course of early Christian history.”
Didn't Jesus have something to say about this attitude to sacred scripture?
Tradition is a real killer. I have had so many Christians quote Scripture at me that it's not funny. I totally believe that all 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
But to have a tradition based on an understanding of Scripture which may have been relevant some time ago, is to say the least, dangerous. Scripture is cool and I enjoy reading it, but the letter of the law is a dangerous foe. Jesus said Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
We need to have ears to hear, because that's where our faith comes from.
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 16 2006,03:46) Well..I guess 1.2 billion Roman Catholics are wrong. Christ himself promised that our Church would never fail and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it. Matt 16:18 I guess if you can't believe Christ himself…who would you believe?
Ouch!, I just noticed this post and must respond.The Church is not just made of Catholics, but Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
I have never been a Catholic and have only attended a Catholic Church meeting once. I was made to feel uncomfortable on two main fronts. These were:
1. They called the preist “father”. The Bible says Mat 23:9 And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.
2. The statues! Jesus still on the cross, the Virgin Mary, the angels… Lev 26:1 You shall make no idols to yourselves; and you shall not set up for yourselves graven images, or a memorial pillar.
I have nothing against the Catholic people, but dislike their traditions.
Hi Oxy,
All Satan has to do is get you to accept the big lie and the rest is easy.The big lie is that you do not have to seek salvation on your own behalf.
After you swallow that one the those to whom you entrust your eternity can say what they like and you will say yessir.
They tell you to follow them, to believe in their teachings though you will always be fed enough scripture to think it is kosher.
But Jesus's message to all is that you must all be born again. He is the gate that all men must pass through.
You, yes that's you, must repent, believe in God and the message brought by the Son of God and seek to be baptised in water in the name of Jesus and to receive the Holy Spirit.
Then you must feed on and abide in the Word and abhor what teachings are not of the mouth of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2006,09:42) Hi Oxy,
All Satan has to do is get you to accept the big lie and the rest is easy.The big lie is that you do not have to seek salvation on your own behalf.
After you swallow that one the those to whom you entrust your eternity can say what they like and you will say yessir.
They tell you to follow them, to believe in their teachings though you will always be fed enough scripture to think it is kosher.
But Jesus's message to all is that you must all be born again. He is the gate that all men must pass through.
You, yes that's you, must repent, believe in God and the message brought by the Son of God and seek to be baptised in water in the name of Jesus and to receive the Holy Spirit.
Then you must feed on and abide in the Word and abhor what teachings are not of the mouth of God.
Are you talking to me Nick? I must repent? I did that 28 years ago Nick. I was born again and baptised in the Holy Spirit back in 1978. I continue to follow the Lord as led by His Spirit to the best of my ability and by His grace to this day.Oh yeah.. and I got baptised in water back in '78 too. Did I leave anything out? I'm sure you will bring it to my attention if I did Nick, lol
Yes traditions of men nullify the power of God.
Traditions also stop men from testing all things.
Once a man's faith is based or even influenced by tradition, then all manner of false doctrine can be accepted. But if we let scripture teach us, then we accept the following:1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Hi Oxy.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 18 2006,03:56) I have nothing against the Catholic people, but dislike their traditions.
Yet you are still under her influence regarding the Trinity doctrine. The Catholics have made this doctrine of man a foundation of their faith. From what I have read from yourself you also promote this doctrine.There are many under her influence that are not called Roman Catholic. Even if the daughters are rebellious, they still have the same mother.
Hi t8, since I've been on this site I've realised that some people's definition of trinity is diferent from others. To me trinity is simply a word meaning 3. It identifies that God is 3, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three seperate identities, but one God.
I am not under the Catholic influence. I gave any traditional church thinking away when I became a Christian.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 19 2006,01:29) It identifies that God is 3, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three seperate identities, but one God.
That is Roman Catholic doctrine.God is one, not triune.
Quote Hi Oxy,
The pope would be proud of you.Quote Thanks Nick, that's very touching. God bless you. Oxy, I'm sorry, but I don't think Nick's words were complimentary.
I've had several conversations with Catholics while preaching the good news of the kingdom (mat 24:14) and I have several times heard the view expressed that tradition is just as important to them as the Bible. This thought is often raised when something that I show them from the Bible seems to contradict what they believe.
To some, these words apply:
- MARK 7:8-9
“Letting go the commandment of God, YOU hold fast the tradition of men.” Further, he went on to say to them: “Adroitly YOU set aside the commandment of God in order to retain YOUR tradition.”Hi Oxy.
I quote this from another source (not me or this website).
Most people who do not call themselves Catholics but believe in the false doctrine of the Trinity fail to realize that they hold the central teaching of their mother.
Even the Catholic Church itself calls them Catholic in the Quicumque Vult of Catholicism. The Quicumque Vult states that “A Trinitarian is a Catholic even though he or she may profess to be a Protestant”.
Therefore, Protestant Denominations such as Methodist, Lutheran, Anglican, Wesleyan, Presbretyrian, and many others who claim to have left the Catholic Church, do not know that they have continued to indulge in the same spiritual fornication of their Mother.
Many other Denominations such as various Baptist and Pentecostal groups have also retained the central teaching of their mother by refusing to reject the false doctrine of the Trinity along with Trinitarian Baptism into the Titles, rather than into the saving name of Jesus Christ.
On October 4th, 1965 100 million Americans watched on T.V. as Pope Paul VI greeted the crowd at Yankee Stadium: “We are most happy to greet at the same time, with all reverence and sincerity, Those Christian brothers here present, separated from us, yet united with us by baptism . . . we keep them all in our hearts and in our prayers.”
I tend to agree with the conclusion drawn above and the statement in caps below:
THE CATHOLIC FAITH IS THE TRINITARIAN ATHANASIAN CREEDAlso read the following:
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.”
Quote (david @ Aug. 18 2006,06:55) Quote Hi Oxy,
The pope would be proud of you.Quote Thanks Nick, that's very touching. God bless you. Oxy, I'm sorry, but I don't think Nick's words were complimentary.
Yeah I know David. Shame on me for resorting to sarcasm, lolFar out t8, that is so far removed from what I believe that it's not funny. You see, I was never taught that church stuff. I was a criminal, drug dependant, occult practising, aggressive social misfit when I met the Lord. I've changed a tad from then
So there is no traditional teaching going on here. In fact, a lot of the things God has taught me don't line up at all well with traditional thinking, but the Lord has shown me how they line up with Scripture.
I'm not saying I have the perfect understanding and I am definately no theologian, but I know what God tells me, and as I said before, I don't see that calling the Son of God, God, any more than calling the son of man, man. The word trinity only means 3 as far as I am concerned. I don't hold with the theory that somehow the 3 are bundled into one non identifiable mass.
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