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I haven't studied the trinity theory Nick. I don't know what it says. Put simply, I worship Jesus as Lord of all and my Saviour. I have an awesome Father – son relationship with the Father, both of which are made possible through the Spirit.
Jesus is subject to the Father, but the Father has exalted Him as Lord of all. But at the end of the day, it is the Father who is in charge.
Hi Oxy,
Do you worship the Father as well or just have an awesome relationship with Him?
Do you worship the Spirit too?Hi Oxy,
Yep.
Too true.
God demands more care with handling truth than I know of.
God demands we seek His ways and His righteousness.
We should not blindly follow men for they are heading towards a pit.
We serve a Master who said:“Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”Mt 5.48
Along with that throw in a touch of love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no lawHi Oxy,
By the power of the Spirit of God we can show this fruit.
And we should also be bearing fruit in a deep respect for
and willingness to defend against attacks,
the integrity of the Scriptures.This is one way that we show love for God .
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 14 2006,00:44) well as much as you love to hate this verse, I think it sums it up rather well. Yes, we have one God, but He is three. 1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
Hi Oxy.Did you not realise that you quoted the Comma Johanneum which is a known addition. It was put there later on to strengthen the Trinity doctrine.
You will find it in the KJV, but try looking in the NIV, NASB, and other translations. It is not there for good reason.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 14 2006,01:40) I haven't studied the trinity theory Nick. I don't know what it says. Put simply, I worship Jesus as Lord of all and my Saviour. I have an awesome Father – son relationship with the Father, both of which are made possible through the Spirit. Jesus is subject to the Father, but the Father has exalted Him as Lord of all. But at the end of the day, it is the Father who is in charge.
Hey that is great Oxy.See you don't need the trinity doctrine at all.
Why do we need to adhere to a doctrine that says that they are all the same being and substance and triune in personality when the first commandment says God is one, not triune.It only creates division.
As christians we should be united in what scripture says. All those creeds that came hundreds of years later only cause unnecessary division.
You know I know this guy from Iran who was a moslem. He came to New Zealand to study and he could see straight away that God had blessed NZ more than Iran. From this he eventually concluded that God had given many blessings to christian countries as opposed to the moslem ones.
He started reading the bible and he became convinced that Jesus was the son of God and the messiah. He actually believed the same confession that Peter utterred below:
Matthew 16:16-18
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.But this denomination got a hold of him and said that he also needs to believe in the Trinity doctrine. But this guy couldn't understand why he had to also believe in something that wasn't in scripture.
To cut a long story short, this guy was ready to be baptized as he was in a repentant state. But this doctrine blocked the way in the same way the Pharisees blocked the way for those who would enter in.
You will find that the Jewish people will also reject this doctrine. They know how important the first commandment is and would most likely not accept the doctrine either.
Conclusion: Why do we need to force a doctrine onto people who want to enter into the way? Why create a stumbling block?
Why create unnecessary division between Jew and Gentile? We are both children of Abraham. One by the flesh and one by faith. Why create a stumbling block for them that wish to have faith too?
To be honest T8, as far as I'm concerned the word trinity simple means 3, Father Son and Holy Spirit. Nothing more.
If other people make more of the word trinity then that's their problem.
Hi Oxy,
Trinity is a word and a concept foreign to the bible and based on the traditions of men. We do not need it to know our God and His Son.Traditionalism is important and establishes the truths and morals in a religious order. Truth is guaranteed by tradition.
Hi Robyn,
Traditionalists would love to hear you preaching their doctrine but Jesus had something to say about tradition and how it does not stand above scripture in the eyes of GodMk 7.6f
“6And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'(A)THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7'(B)BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'8″Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the ©tradition of men.”
9He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your (D)tradition.
10″For Moses said, '(E)HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, '(F)HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is (G)Corban (that is to say, [a]given to God),'
12you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13thus invalidating the word of God by your (H)tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that”
We need to follow him, not them.
To Robyn †,
Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 16 2006,18:46) Traditionalism is important and establishes the truths and morals in a religious order. Truth is guaranteed by tradition.
Matthew 15:6
he is not to 'honor his father ' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”It appears that the traditions of certain religious men go against the Word of God rather than guaranteeing it. If we say that tradition guarantees truth, then we might as well say that the Pharisees were of the truth.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 16 2006,00:26) It appears that the traditions of certain religious men go against the Word of God rather than guaranteeing it.
Are you saying traditions are against God? Tradition has been passed down with the beliefs and dogmas which our Church have preserved intact passed down from Christ and the Apostles. In my Church…Scripture and Tradition work together and are interwoven and cannot be separated.Hi Robyn,
Tradition is the excuse given for men teaching what is not written as if it was from God Himself, to the gullible. We need to know that those who teach outside of scriptures speak with the voice of a stranger [Jn 10]and are not of God.2Jn 7.f
“7For (Q)many deceivers have Âgone out into the world, those who (S)do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh This is (T)the deceiver and the (U)antichrist.8(V)Watch yourselves, (W)that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
9Anyone who goes too far and (X)does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, (Y)do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
11for the one who gives him a greeting (Z)participates in his evil deeds.”
He said in Jn 10
” 4″When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know (E)his voice.5″A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know (F)the voice of strangers.”
Tradition is both essential and important. The word tradition comes from the Latin tradere which means to transmit. Let's say in the course of the transmission there is a change, then there is a breach of faith. Tradition is alive in our Chruch because each one of lives it. Tradition and faith go together
Hi Robyn t,
Then does your church look like the book of Acts?
That is the church of God.
Did you have to be repent and be reborn of water and the Spirit to enter your church because you must be reborn to go through the gate into the kingdom?
You can very happily play church all your life without God being involved at all.
His Church abides in his teachings.
That is why scripture says
“come out of her MY PEOPLE lest you be judged for her sisns”Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 16 2006,20:08) Tradition is both essential and important. The word tradition comes from the Latin tradere which means to transmit. Let's say in the course of the transmission there is a change, then there is a breach of faith. Tradition is alive in our Chruch because each one of lives it. Tradition and faith go together
To Robyn †Tradition being alive in your church means nothing when it comes to establishing truth.
In many churches there are many traditions and teachings that are not correct. But in the Church that belongs to Jesus, truth should be determined by scripture and by leading of God's Spirit. These 2 witnesses will never contradict the truth.
Tradition isn't the vehicle for establishing truth. Often it goes against the word of God as has already been clearly pointed out to you.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:Now show me a scripture that says the same of tradition.
I'm sorry if I seem like I am not making sense to you guys. I will try and explain it better if I can. This is what I was taught since I was a little girl.
The word of God is passed down through tradition. The word of God was passed down through worrd of mouth or orally as one can say. I believe it is Mark 16:15 that Jesus said to his Apostles to “preach” (not write) the Gospel to every creature. Same with Luke 10:16 I believe where Jesus says…He who hears you (not “who reads your writings”), hears me.
Part of learning about Christ through word of mouth is a tradition we practiced in our Church since Christ himself established it though the Apostle Peter, our first Pope.
I hope that helps you guys out. I will pray for both of you.
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