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Hi cavedave, who do you suggest is multiplying in this verse?
“But “The word”(Ho Logos) of God grew and multiplied.” (Acts 12:24)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi cavedave.
Welcome and thanks for your views.
I agree that Jesus is not God/YHWH/the Most High.
He is the son of God and the messiah.Jesus used this truth as the foundation for his Church.
The best way to attack any organisation or structure is to attack the foundation.Edj.
It is possible for an attribute of God to be a person too.
In fact that is what a person is.
An embodiment of God's characteristics.Jesus said he was the truth.
Does that mean that God is not true or that Jesus is the truth without compromising truth in God himself?Of course the latter is the case.
Quote (cavedave @ Feb. 16 2012,08:16) I will also add that I was asked to leave the web site where these videos came from because I would not give in to the idea that Jesus was God. I simply believe Jesus is the Son of God the word of God and our saivor. No more no less pretty simple stuff. No where in scripture does it ever say God the Son and was asked to leave for said belief. And also believe we walk a slipery path we we judge our brothers and sisters by videos made by people who have an agenda or belief system that stems from the very thing that they are condeming and they dont even know it. There is nothing wrong with be wrong we all have been at one time or another.
When we are children we think like children and that is ok.
Some people never grow up and think they can teach others.
This is a very serious thing in the eyes of God our Father. Make sure of what you teach is it in scripture or is it a tradition handed down by men and all take it to be truth. This is alright when a child not as an adult saying you come from God to teach others. If what you believe is truth it will stand on its own with out you condemming others for what they believe. If what you believe makes you and others into a special group and exculds all others you are wrong all ready.
Truth welcomes all comers and stands on its own let God Himself sort it out. False doctrines demand you to bow your knee and kill all who oppose them.
Welcome cavedave,
Thomas disagrees with you…the disciple and apostle. He himself believed and called Jesus his Lord and his God.Kathi
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2012,06:27) OK this thread is about the Toronto Blessing.
Sorry for getting off the subject.
I agree with you brother let us stay on topic. Forgive me also for going over to the side of the road. Thank God for the middle of the road.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 17 2012,06:44) Quote (cavedave @ Feb. 16 2012,08:16) I will also add that I was asked to leave the web site where these videos came from because I would not give in to the idea that Jesus was God. I simply believe Jesus is the Son of God the word of God and our saivor. No more no less pretty simple stuff. No where in scripture does it ever say God the Son and was asked to leave for said belief. And also believe we walk a slipery path we we judge our brothers and sisters by videos made by people who have an agenda or belief system that stems from the very thing that they are condeming and they dont even know it. There is nothing wrong with be wrong we all have been at one time or another.
When we are children we think like children and that is ok.
Some people never grow up and think they can teach others.
This is a very serious thing in the eyes of God our Father. Make sure of what you teach is it in scripture or is it a tradition handed down by men and all take it to be truth. This is alright when a child not as an adult saying you come from God to teach others. If what you believe is truth it will stand on its own with out you condemming others for what they believe. If what you believe makes you and others into a special group and exculds all others you are wrong all ready.
Truth welcomes all comers and stands on its own let God Himself sort it out. False doctrines demand you to bow your knee and kill all who oppose them.
Welcome cavedave,
Thomas disagrees with you…the disciple and apostle. He himself believed and called Jesus his Lord and his God.Kathi
Hi LU,
Thomas had learned from Jesus in Jn 14 that God was in him.He spoke of the blessed vessel and the glorious contents-GOD
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2012,06:26) Edj. It is possible for an attribute of God to be a person too.
In fact that is what a person is.
An embodiment of God's characteristics.Jesus said he was the truth.
Does that mean that God is not true or that Jesus is the truth without compromising truth in God himself?Of course the latter is the case.
Hi T8,When the “HolySpirit” told the Apostle Paul (Shaool)
not to go to Asia to preach, was this an attribute talking?
also, was ONLY an attribute responsible for Jesus' conception?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHI Everyone,
Are they just not flipping around because this is what is expected of them,
rather than to suggest that it is some kind of spurious possession.At Benny Hinn assemblies, they learn to lean and fall back
(or get tripped by the catcher while being pushed by Benny),
and lay on the floor of the stage to be able to stay on the stage.I ask, is this not just simply the behavior that is expected of its participants?
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgJust some notes here on this.
THE STRIKING SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE “TORONTO BLESSING”
AND THE SERPENT POWER OF KUNDALINIThe following is taken from here:
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/kundalini.htm
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(Quote):
Here is a DIRECT QUOTE from a Kundalini Page on the web (caps are my addition):
“Usually the awakening of Kundalini was a process which only occurred after years of spiritual practice and meditation. Yet INCREASINGLY, the Kundalini experience is being reported among people who are not undertaking spiritual practices. Since 1993, when Shared Transformation, an American journal for connecting spiritual awakeners first began, it has been contacted by OVER 700 people in the throes of SPONTANEOUS KUNDALINI AROUSAL (Collie & Kree, 1995). These INCREASED reports of spontaneous Kundalini awakening at this time of PLANETARY UPHEAVAL may be INDICATIVE OF A LARGER PURPOSE AS WORK, the beginning of a planetary wake up call. . .”
Since reading this article I have sent off several e-mails to various “gurus” and New Age sites describing the activity at Toronto and Pensacola and asking their opinions of them and did they think these could be spontaneous Kundalini Awakenings in these folks. I will inform you of their responses when I get them.
The above article tells me that what used to take years…now is being “granted” immediately to those not even following the yogic path. These occult folks view this as indicative of a LARGER PURPOSE AT WORK. What and/or whose purpose?
The only answer is the larger purpose is that of Satan and his hosts of seducing and deceiving spirits.
My brothers and sisters there is a GLOBAL DEMONIC DECEPTION being perpetrated on 100,000's of charismatic Christians. Almost all the Charismatic leaders endorse these manifestations as a true move of the Holy Spirit.
Quote more from Kunulini sites:
KUNDALINI SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS
by El Collie
Many individuals whose Kundalini has been unexpectedly unleashed DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, and the prevailing social ignorance about this multidimensional transformative process makes it hard to find medical or alternative health practitioners or spiritual advisors who recognize the symptoms, particularly when they are strongly physical. Many people know that the risen Kundalini flings open gates to all sorts of mystical, paranormal and magical vistas but few realize it can also dramatically impact the body. A large percentage of Shared Transformation subscribers have reported long bouts of strange illness as well as radical mental, emotional, interpersonal, psychic, spiritual and lifestyle changes. Over and again we hear stories of frustrating, sometimes desperate visits to doctors, healers, counselors, etc. who neither understood nor were able to help with the myriad pains and problems catalyzed by raging Kundalini.
The following are common manifestations of the risen Kundalini:
- Muscle twitches, cramps or spasms.
- Energy rushes or immense electricity circulating the body
- Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations
- Intense heat or cold
- Involuntary bodily movements (occur more often during meditation, rest or sleep): jerking, tremors, shaking; feeling an inner force pushing one into postures or moving one's body in unusual ways
- Alterations in eating and sleeping patterns
- Episodes of extreme hyperactivity or, conversely, overwhelming fatigue
- Intensified or diminished sexual desires
- Headaches, pressures within the skull
- Racing heartbeat, pains in the chest
- Digestive system problems
- Numbness or pain in the limbs (particularly the left foot and leg)
- Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck
- Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression
- Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) — are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs
- Hearing an inner sound or sounds, classically described as a flute, drum, waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also sound like roaring, whooshing, or thunderous noises or like ringing in the ears.
- Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating
- Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity)
- Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.
- Ecstasy and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion
- Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers
- Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.
- Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including “vibes” from others)
- Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness
Some people have told us they find the concept of “Kundalini” foreign and prefer to simply call this their “awakening,” which is fine with us. But for most who contact us, the Kundalini explanation provides an important framework with which to accept and work with their experiences. We each have a unique way of interpreting, honoring and describing our spiritual wisdom. I do not believe there is only one right way to know or express the truth. Far more important, I believe, is to have an open heart and to be faithful to our own path, wherever it may lead. We have also been asked why we do not put more emphasis on union with the Divine and God-realization, which are very much central to spiritual awakening. Since everyone experiences and interprets their mystical experiences differently and very personally, to make sure no one will feel excluded, we just speak of “awakening consciousness” or “transcendent states” on the ST Web pages. In our Shared Transformation newsletter, individuals with variant religious beliefs are welcome to (and DO) tell about their experiences of this sort. Some speak of God, Christ, Goddess, the Holy One, Spirit, or simply a magnificent Whole in which we all partake. Also, for some people, profound spiritual realizations do not occur until months or years after the other signs and symptoms. Individuals who are having experiences of an obvious spiritual nature are usually more able to integrate and benefit from the process, regardless of how they may label it. But those who experience what seems to be illness or weird psychic phenomena often are very alarmed until they understand that they are not sick or crazy. And even the enlightening and beautiful experiences can be so powerful that people doubt their sanity. This is why the information and validation we offer in the ST newsletters and the opportunity to exchange insights with others through Shared Transformation's Friends Online and the Kundalini Mailing List is so valuable.
A more detailed list of Kundalini manifestations can be found in Shared Transformation newsletter, Issue #5.”
(Unquote).
More notes, further quoted from the same site:
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/kundalini.htm
(Quote):
“Do any of these “manifestations” sound vaguely familiar? They match almost exactly with the experiences of people in Toronto, Pensacola, Bromptom England, etc. I have video footage of a woman in Pensacola standing trying to give her testimony with a panicked look on her face calling out to her husband “honey where are we from.” Her mind was so BLOWN and CONFUSED that she did not (1) know her own name and (2) did not know where she lived! Yet this is God! Our God is not the Author of CONFUSION, nor does He confuse His people. If anything the Holy Spirit gives utmost CLARITY. Yet MENTAL CONFUSION and LACK OF CONCENTRATION are however 2 signs of ones “serpent power” being released.
World-wide reports of the UNCONTROLLABLE LAUGHING and/or CRYING have circulated. This too is a sign of the serpent power being manifested. . .yet there is no Biblical support for such manifestations at all.
Unexplained hand and arm motions (I've personally seen this in Toronto) are viewed as God playing/working with one of His saints. Yet it is a classic example of the serpent power in operation. Hindus may see these as spontaneous yogic gestures or postures ( I have footage of a man in Boston performing yogic postures). . .Yet again this is seen as the Holy Spirit. REALLY? Animals sounds, grunts, roars also fall within awakened Kundalini”.
I just received an e-mail which says:
Brother in Christ,
I want to make sure that you know about something that happened in Pensacola in April. You wrote in your article that sweet aromas will fill churches next. It happened in Pensacola in one evening as Joyner was preaching. He said a blue “cloud of glory” filled the sanctuary as they did their demonic manifestations and then a “very sweet smell filled the whole place”. Maybe this
happened before you wrote the article, but I remember that you said this would be the next thing
happening and, well, it happened. Just thought you might want to know that you predicted right. I guess we have to see what's next. In Him, D**** P****
Smelling the scent of incense (frankensense, sandalwood, etc.) or flowers is also an indication of Kundalini Awakening.My former guru Muktananda Paramahansa always spoke of seeing “chiti” or “consciousness” all around him as BLUE SPARKS. How many more parallels do Charismatic Christians need to be convinced that what they are experiencing is DEMONIC?
Another irrefutable parallel is that the charismatic manifestations can all be traced to Rodney-Howard Browne. From the impartation of his hands all this has come! Kundalini Awakening comes from a lineage of guru's and is imparted by them to their disciples, who give it to their disciples, etc. . .
ONE THING IS UNDENIABLE: There is NO Biblical support for the manifestations, however there is a ONE-TO-ONE correspondence between “Holy Laughter” and the occult manifestations.
It has been many many years since I sat before an altar with a picture of Muktananda Paramahansa and a statue of a coiled cobra snake, eating prassad (food blessed by the presence of the guru). I am saddened to see multitudes of sincere believers practicing Kundalini yoga. Receiving impartation from their own local/national/international gurus, whether they be called Pastor Arnott, Benny Hinn, Rodney Browne, etc.
The fruit is the same. The manifestations are the same. It comes via a human being (not sovereignly by God). It comes after much singing repetitious choruses, which does bring one into an alpha state of consciousness (I know these states well, I used to spend hours in a sensory deprivation tank) and thus shutting down the rational mind. Thus the chela/student/disciple/believer is open to receiving the impartation from the guru/pastor/prophet/apostle. . .and lo-and-behold they do.
Are these “moves” from God? No they are not. From all I have read, seen, experienced as a former mystic and as a Charismaniac I can say on the basis of Scripture that what is occurring is a cleaver counterfeit – something mimicking the genuine so as to deceive those who would normally accept the genuine. I pray for the deliverance of those leaders who are ignorantly leading God's people astray and I pray for the multitudes of hungry believers who for some reason or another find simple faith in the Scriptures not enough to satisfy their souls.
Words from a Minister During the Revival in Wales
Jessie-Penn Lewis“The counterfeit of the Presence of God is mainly felt upon the body, and by the physical senses, in conscious “fire,” “thrills,” etc. The counterfeit of the “Presence” in the atmosphere is felt by the senses of the body, as “breath,” “wind,” etc., whilst the mind is passive or inactive. The person affected by this counterfeit will be moved almost automatically to actions he would not perform of his own will, and with all his faculties in operation. He may not even remember what he has done under the “power” of this “presence.” Jessie-Penn Lewis War On the Saints, page. 153
“But another man had the same impulse, and fell down groaning and roaring, beating the floor with his hands and feet, and the demon entered into him as the angel of light, and got him to think that his conduct was of the Holy Ghost, and it became a regular habit in the meetings he attended. . .” War on the Saints pg. 150
“Nothing supernatural should be felt by the senses, but by the spirit. . .Counterfeits of today are generally wrought upon the soulish – or sense life – of believers who have not learnt to distinguish between soul and spirit.” Jessie Penn Lewis The Spiritual Warfare, pgs. 16-17
SELAH”
(UnQuote).
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Remember that in the first videos, the YouTube writeup says:
“Leaders and movements involved:
prophetic, apostolic, todd bentley, lakeland revival, rick joyner, morningstar, toronto blessing, new mystics, john crowder, ihop, mike bickle, patricia king, false revival, the river, bob jones, john paul jackson, sid roth, chuck pierce, bill johnson, randy clark, peter wagner, dutch sheets, pentecostal, charismatic.“This is happening worldwide.
I wonder how many more churches this is happening in, and I wonder also, how fast this is spreading.I am very very careful as to what I judge. I believe in healing and I do not doubt ANYthing I see to do with this – usually. But when I saw these videos, I just KNEW that something here is just not right.
Hello shimmer,
Quote “Nothing supernatural should be felt by the senses, but by the spirit. . .Counterfeits of today are generally wrought upon the soulish – or sense life – of believers who have not learnt to distinguish between soul and spirit.” Jessie Penn Lewis The Spiritual Warfare, pgs. 16-17 Healing is supernatural and is certainly felt by the senses. I would say that this statement is inaccurate from your resource. I can think of plenty of supernatural events that Jesus performed that were seen and or felt.
The calming of the sea.
The huge catch of fish.
The physical healings.
The feeding of thousands.How about Pentecost and the supernatural occurrences that were felt by the senses:
1When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
There was a noise like a violent rushing wind that filled the whole house. They saw tongues of fire…they spoke with tongues.
These things seem pretty physical to me, i.e. felt by the senses.Wouldn't you agree?
Hi Kathi.
Uncontrollable laughing and/or crying. Unexplained hand and arm motions. Animal sounds, grunts, and roars.
I will tell you a little bit about my past to do with this. When I was an out of control teenager, I would often go to church with my parents (One was a Catholic and one was a Baptist) and I would sometimes crack up laughing for no known reason. It embarrased me that I would do this and it made me avoid going to church! Anything would trigger me. My fathers out of tune singing voice or my freind sitting behind me. This was not of God because as I said, I was an out of control teenager.
I have been baptised. I have also since been unchurched. I have felt God… been led by God, I have learnt, I have changed, and I have felt Gods presence and healing powers. The presense and healing powers both healed me, led me, and strengthened me. Some times in my life I would have crumbled, but i did not because God was there. And I was given little signs along the way (The verse when needed, the words when needed, the visions too).
Once I was sitting at my table having a conversation with some Jehovahs Witness freinds. I told them of a few experiences such as healing. They said they don't believe in that, and that even Satan can conterfeit healings, etc. I decided there and then I would not be a Jehavahs Witness, and I was always really careful not to judge anything I had seen to do with healings etc, even on TV.
The only thing I did not nessesarily agree with is the speaking in tongues. I understand through my reading of scripture, that when they did speak in tongues, there was an interpreter there. It was not in the scripture the same as what you see today – people all together speaking in strange tongues without an interpreter – where is that in scripture – and what was the original intentions of their being able to speak in tongues but to spread the word of God throughout the world. (Of course, today, we have translaters and even on the Internet you only need to click onto 'Google translate' or similar.
Being 'slain in the Spirit' what is that? Where is it in the Scriptures. I don't know too much about it but i grew up seeing it. It has never happened to me. What I have felt is God in my heart, bringing me to tears, with love for God or others, a healing heart and calming of the mind – and something which lasted for days. But as it was there i continued on my days as normal, albeit calmer.
I have heard someone speak about his 'kundalini' and Toronto happening which has become world wide. And the person had a dream or vision, and she was shown what she calls the 'false bliss'. She noticed that while under this 'false bliss' she felt vulnerable to any deception, and that, she said, was the scariest part. She has felt the same as me in regards to God and she knows also, that Gods healing powers and spirit brings clarity and alertness (Jesus said to stay awake so you are not deceived).
I have since witnessed this Kundalini in a believer, and I can tell you, this is deceptive.
I have much more to say on this in regards to some of your points…when I have some more time though.
Thanks Kathi.
Quote (shimmer @ April 20 2012,11:57) I will tell you a little bit about my past to do with this. When I was an out of control teenager, I would often go to church with my parents (One was a Catholic and one was a Baptist) and I would sometimes crack up laughing for no known reason. It embarrased me that I would do this and it made me avoid going to church! Anything would trigger me. My fathers out of tune singing voice or my freind sitting behind me. This was not of God because as I said, I was an out of control teenager.
Hi Kathi.Ok, that was an exageration. It has only happened to me twice, as a rebellious teenager, and I have since been in churches, including baptisim, and it didn't happen again.
But anyway, further to what I said, and this is all I have to say on the matter:
Pauls says in 2 The.2:3 not to be deceived by ANY MEANS, for the day will not come untill the rebellion and the 'lawless man' is revealed and will sit in the Temple of God – which is the Body – (“Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within you”) as if a god – and will opose and exalt Himself over everything which is called God.
WHAT puts itself in the temple of God (The Body) – but a Spirit??
(Which oposses and exalts itself over all that is called God).God is SPIRIT
This is a Spiritual thing!
Paul says “Do you not remember, that when I was with you I told you these things? And now you know what has prevented him from being revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity is already at work, until he who now is the obstacle is taken out of the way“.
What is taken out of the way?
Truth is removed (The Spirit of Truth)..Paul says:
“The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness”.
Jesus said that He will come Like a thief.
When people say peace and security, sudden destruction will come upon them in one day.
Well, are not these people all over the world in a trance and believing that they are happy and in peace and security?! (Laughter, Peace, and “Happiness!”)
What is there that we can do for these people? This is happening FAST!!
People by the thousands in meetings all over the world are falling under it's spell, it is strong and it is POWERFUL!!
Kundulini is from Hinduism.
Quote:
“Hinduism says there’s no such thing as a sinner, the only sin is to call yourself a sinner, this is Hinduism” – THE MAN OF SIN!
Just be careful Kathi. Take care.
Jesus said that many would come in his name, who were false. And that false prophets would arise showing great signs and wonders, and that they could decieve even the elect, if it was possible (Matthew 24). So we need to be careful – as Jesus said.
And Paul said that in the last days, people would give heed to misleading spirits, and doctrines of demons, “Who with false appearance would mislead and speak lies” – and to beware.
I will quote a freind..
“We are all influenced by forces outside of our own self (Spirit). You know also that those Spirits can tell truth – or – tell lies – OR – a mixture of both. This latter is the MOST DANGEROUS because where does the target person decide truth begins and ends and the lie begins and end – confusion? – too right.
Take Satan and Eve. Satan knew that God did not mean 'instant death in the flesh' by eating the fruit but 'death of the flesh back to the dust by decay due to sin and ultimate destruction of the Spirit'. He DECEIVED Eve and when Adam saw that Eve was not hurt, he too ate of the fruit”.Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2012,17:17) HI Everyone, ARE THEY JUST NOT FLIPPING AROUND BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM,
RATHER THAN TO SUGGEST THAT IT IS SOME KIND OF A 'SPURIOUS POSSESSION'.At Benny Hinn assemblies, they learn to lean and fall back
(or get tripped by the catcher while being pushed by Benny),
and lay on the floor of the stage to be able to stay on the stage.I ask, is this not just simply the behavior that is expected of its participants?
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
Bump for Shimmer
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