Titus 2:13, 14 Proof that Jesus is The Saviour!

[Lightenup]

Roo,
Thanks…welcome back, I hope all is well.

Kathi

[Rena]

Kathi, how come Jesus said – “Why do you call me good? No one is good except one–God.”
I don't understand the Trinity, and I dont know anything about the earlier Trinity that you speak of. But I'm curious about this one verse and others.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 01 2011,21:37)

Dear Hopeless you said: Quote It doesn't really matter though, does it?  If the Father is greater than Jesus in ANY RESPECT AT ALL, then you no longer have two EQUAL mighty gods who form one Almighty God.  Do you not know what the word “EQUAL” means, Kathi? Which one was the greater Son Mike, or the greater servant, or the greater mediator, or the greater High Priest, or the greater Messiah, or who will be the greater judge of the whole world?  Oh, the Father was never a Son or those other things, so that would be His Son was the greater son and those other things.  So if the Son is greater in any way then they couldn't be equally a mighty God…c'mon Mike.  It is their shared nature that make them a mighty God.  Nothing is said that the Father is greater in nature does it?  In fact it says that the Son is the EXACT representation of the nature of God.  They are equal in nature.  The word 'equal' is a math term used when you see the word 'is' in the word problem and the word 'and' means there is a + sign. Deut 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords The LORD (Jehovah) your God = God of gods + Lord of lords The LORD (Jehovah) your God = the Father + the Son  according to Paul who tells us who our one God is and our one Lord is.  Our one God is the Father and our one Lord is Jesus Christ.  You can see that way back in Deuteronomy the Son was Lord and even Lord of lords.   Also, it was the Son according to the flesh that was exalted to be Lord, the Son according to His divinity was always the Lord of lords. 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. Look to see more about that LORD (Jehovah) our God… Deut 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible , which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve , and to him shalt thou cleave , and swear by his name. 21 He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things , which thine eyes have seen. 22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude. So the LORD our God who is the Father and the Son…is thy God to fear, serve, cleave, and swear by His name. The LORD our God who is the Father and the Son…is also thy praise and thy God. Quote So are you now a Trinitarian, Kathi?  Well, the road is wide enough for all of you. I am a Christian.  You don't know what a trinitarian is Mike for you to say that. Quote Now what ever gave us that idea? 1 Chronicles 17 7 “Now then, tell my servant David, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty says………….. 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’” This is about the offspring of David, not the 'root' of David.  You must feel like you are sinking to even try that, Mike.  It is the Son of God that was the 'root' of David who was begotten before the ages. The LORD (Jehovah) Almighty that is mentioned in 1 Chronicles 17 is the Father with His Son who existed with His Father in the beginning.  He did not come into existence as the Son of God in Mary.  He was pre-existent, even eternally existent.  The LORD was therefore always ALMIGHTY who is the Father with His Son. Look at your pre-existent database for a refresher course.  It seems like that info was forgotten by you.  Are you not the same person who started that thread?  Are you not the same person that argues the pre-existence of Christ in the pre-existence thread…and regularly?  What makes you think you are going to get away with that.  What do you believe, was the Son pre-existent to the Messiah, the offspring of David or not?  I'm sure Gene could tell me what your answer would be, in fact probably any member here that has been a regular could tell me what you believe on that issue.  Are you just wanting to waste our time? Kathi

Kathi

my dear hopeless

I will ask you but one question;when was Christ given his kingdom that is as son of David,root of David

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Quote (Rena @ July 01 2011,00:11)

Kathi, how come Jesus said – “Why do you call me good? No one is good except one–God.” I don't understand the Trinity, and I dont know anything about the earlier Trinity that you speak of. But I'm curious about this one verse and others.

Rena,
I think that Jesus was looking for faith and to see if His Father had revealed truth to him. Remember when He asked Peter who he thought that He was? By Peter's response Jesus recognized that the Father revealed truth to Him and He made a big deal about it. I think that if the guy that Jesus asked the question to in your verse said “I call you good because you are a mighty God or the Son of God” or something to that affect, then He would have been praised like Peter was because flesh and blood did not reveal that truth to him but the Father who was in heaven. That is my opinion on that verse.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
As the offspring of David, He received His kingdom when He was resurrected. As the root of David He was always in His kingdom with His Father.

Kathi

[Rena]

Ok Kathi, thanks for your response…hmmm, still a bit confusing to me, though. I'll keep reading!

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2011,11:15)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 28 2011,11:26) Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 1 Cor 6:20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. God=Jesus in these verses, not God the Father. You've got to be kidding me!

All good is of God.

All that is under Jesus feet is of God.

Surely the Church which Jesus builds, is of God.

Hence the Church of God.

Another example would be Jesus brethren being the children of God, or .

Shall we all pretend that we do not know what the word OF means.
Then we can all be happy in our ignorance and praise a Triad God.

[terraricca]

Kathi

Quote

Pierre, As the offspring of David, He received His kingdom when He was resurrected. As the root of David He was always in His kingdom with His Father. Kathi

Quote

As the offspring of David, He received His kingdom when He was resurrected

where does it say that in scriptures?
to my understanding it was when he came to be anointed by John,

Quote

As the root of David He was always in His kingdom with His Father

where does it say that in scriptures ?

to me the scriptures will be saying the same thing one is the confirmation of the other ,

please do not invent interpretation just show scriptures,

Pierre

[Lightenup]

t8.
Are you the one pretending that you don't understand pronouns and antecedents?
http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000030.htm

these are your words t8:

Quote

It amazes me how some people really try hard to change truth into their own understanding. Whatever happened to just reading scripture and believing it. Having to apply a doctrine to all scripture, is as good as not having scripture as your base understanding.

Let's say the verse and switch out the word 'God' for Christ:
Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of CHRIST, which he bought with his own blood.

If you replace the word 'God' with the word 'Christ' then you have an accurate statement according to your theology, right? That should tell you something…you are messing with the word of God when you make a post like you just did on this page. It isn't the only verse that speaks of Christ as deity, btw.

Also, why do you keep bringing up the trinity. There is no mention of a triad God in that verse, or my post about that verse. I think that you just want to think that anyone who truly believes in the deity of Christ must be a trinitarian…

Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 30 2011,17:56)

Quote (t8 @ June 30 2011,09:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2011,09:10) Hi David, Ed and Irene. You have brought up another one of the Anti-Jesus is God fallacies which I will address tomorrow, until then goodnight and cudos. WJ Before you do that, why not be honest and admit that you have 3 saviours. The Father, Son, and Spirit. Can you admit that you have 3 saviours? No! You're the one who has three saviors. We have one Savior in three persons. The U.S. has one federal government in three branches which are the executive, legislative and the judicial. Our constitution does not say “three governments of the people by the people and for the people….” Think plural unity for EVERYTHING is a plural unity. KJ

Jack

Amen!

Not one thing that exist in creation is without being a plural unity.

The creation reveals the Glory of God.

WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ June 27 2011,00:59)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 27 2011,09:21) t8, Quote Even Jesus is a son of the Most High except that he is the only begotten and firstborn. A big exception there t8.  A difference between deity and non deity. God is a 'Him' on one side of the equation but on the other side of the equation, the Father is a mighty God, the Son is a mighty God, and with their Spirit they make the Father the Almighty God.  He always was the Almighty God and always had a Son.  As I see it. Hi Gordon. We will partake of divine nature and our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his. In addition to that, he will call us brothers/brethren. What he is, we will become. If Jesus is part of your understanding of God, then get ready to add the redeemed into this God too. This is the next logical step to your current understanding.

Sally ,

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What he is, we will become.

How can we become the only begotten Son?

According to His humanity He will call us brethren, btw.

Gordon

[terraricca]

WJ

Quote

Not one thing that exist in creation is without being a plural unity.

this is because God never made one thing by itself always many things ,

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 29 2011,20:11)

t8, Quote Family is a unit/organisation made up of persons. A family is not a HIM, but THEY. But that has nothing to do with my example.  My example wasn't defining a family but a 'family man' who is a 'him' and not a they.  t8, I have noticed time and time again how you are misreading nearly every post I write.  I know how distracting kids can be and maybe that is your situation.  The kids come first though, don't they family man Try again… Kathi

t8,
You may have missed this post so I bumped it for you.

Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2011,20:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2011,10:52) Ed But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”: 2 Tim 1:10 It is real simple, is Jesus your Savior or not? WJ Hi WJ, Of course!  …what a great salvation our savior Jesus Christ has wrought for us!

Ed

Thanks for answering. Then if Jesus is your “Savior” and he is not “One God” with the Father and “One Savior” with the Father then that means you have 2 saviors.

So how does your answer agree with this quote you made…

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2011,20:29)

And He is “The Savior” to all who walk the ground! “JEHOVAH GOD”; and there is ‘NO’ other! (Isaiah 43:11)

WJ

[Lightenup]

There are two persons that took part in our eternal salvation. They form a unity and that unity is called the LORD (Jehovah) our God.
So in a sense there are two Saviors and in another sense there is one Savior. It depends on the perspective or emphasis of the situation.

Deut 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords
The LORD (Jehovah) your God = God of gods + Lord of lords
The LORD (Jehovah) your God = the Father + the Son according to Paul who tells us who our one God is and our one Lord is. Our one God is the Father and our one Lord is Jesus Christ. You can see that way back in Deuteronomy the Son was Lord and even Lord of lords.

1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2011,19:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2011,08:56) The fact that Jesus is supreme ruler and sovereign over all the creation and that all things are in his hands and that he is the source of all things to the creation is all the proof any one should need to prove he is God! Hi Keith, 1.  WHOSE creation does it say that Jesus rules over?

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:16, 17

For all things to consist by Jesus means he is the source of all things not to mention it takes “All Power” for him to hold all things together. Heb 1:3

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]. Matt 11:27

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Luke 10:22

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 13:3

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 15:16

Before you make the straw man response that because the Father gave him all things he is not God, remember he was/is the Word that was with God and was God who was rich and became poor for us by emptying himself and taking on the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh as our Saviour and now has returned back to the Glory that he shared with the Father before the foundation of the world and time. John 1:1-3, John 17:5, 2 Cor 8:9, Phil 2:6-8

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2011,19:32)

2.  What scripture tell us that Jesus is “the source of all things”?

Well if you want to get technical, where is there a scripture that says “the Father is the source of all things?”

Anyway see the above scriptures. Mike you boast about reading the scriptures a lot well did you read the over 150 verses that I posted that proves Jesus is the “source” of all things to “his” people and the creation?

Click here! and read the 5th post down and read them all with an open heart and maybe the Holy Spirit of truth will show you something.

So when I asked you if all things come to you from Jesus own hands you said “NO.”

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 29 2011,19:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2011,10:55) Does everything come to you from Jesus own hands or not? No.

You answer is calling Jesus a liar when he says all things are given into his hands, and in fact makes me question whether you are even saved or know him.

Jesus said not only are all things in his hands but that his “true sheep” who hear his voice are in his hands…

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:26-28

Read on and you will see Jesus is claiming his hand is equal to the Fathers and that they are “One”, not just in purpose but in “Power”.

This makes Jesus “God” to every true believer! Jesus also says…

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]. Matt 11:27

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; John 13:3

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 15:16

So do you still stand by your statement that contradicts Jesus own words when you say all things do not come from Jesus own hands?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 01 2011,09:17)

How can we become the only begotten Son? According to His humanity He will call us brethren, btw. Gordon

Kathi

True! To t8, Mike and others Jesus is neither fully man or full God. I can't figure out what Jesus is to them which makes me know that their Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible.

Jesus is God in the flesh or the “visible image of the invisible God”.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi All

When a true believer refers to “God” as his “Savior” that includes “The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit” for the three are “One” and you can't have one without the other!

Pure and simple. “One God” and “One Savior” and that is Biblical!

WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 01 2011,08:47)

Kathi Quote Pierre, As the offspring of David, He received His kingdom when He was resurrected.  As the root of David He was always in His kingdom with His Father. Kathi Quote As the offspring of David, He received His kingdom when He was resurrected where does it say that in scriptures? to my understanding it was when he came to be anointed by John, Quote As the root of David He was always in His kingdom with His Father where does it say that in scriptures ? to me the scriptures will be saying the same thing one is the confirmation of the other , please do not invent interpretation just show scriptures, Pierre

Pierre,
Hebrews 1:8

But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Matt 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

As for the Son as the 'root of David,' He has always been in unity with the Father as Jehovah our God. So when did Jehovah ever not have a kingdom. He created all things.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2011,12:00)

Hi All When a true believer refers to “God” as his “Savior” that includes “The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit” for the three are “One” and you can't have one without the other! Pure and simple. “One God” and “One Savior” and that is Biblical! WJ

That's right Keith!

Kathi

[Author]

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