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Quote (JustAskin @ April 12 2010,20:49) Jesus possesses great power but is not Supreme nor all powerful as the power, the majesty, the Might, comes as a gift from one who holds all power.
JAThis is not at all what Jesus said is it?
John 3:35 – John 13:3 – Matt 28:18 – John 5:22 – John 16:15
WJ
David
Quote (david @ Feb. 10 2010,21:54) WJ, I think you missed my question. For the third time: If as you say, angels are not gods (Elohyim) “at all” why does the Bible use that exact term to describe them?
And you will get the same response…YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, AND AFTER ME THERE CONTINUED TO BE NONE“. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” Isa 43:10 NWT
Maybe you should talk to Watchtower and see if the NWT paraphrasers can change it so it supports your belief in other gods!
I know you are smart enough to know what I am saying or are you just being stubborn?
Paul agrees with the Hebrew text for he writes…
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE” For even if there are “so called gods”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),. 1 Cor 8:4
Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; “do not invoke the names of their gods or swear by them”. You must not serve them or bow down to them. Josh 23:7
Do you see it David. Men make these so-called gods that are not made nor formed by YHWH, therefore they are not gods at all but merely that which men have made.
Where is there a follower of YHWH that calls any of these so called gods their god? Where is the example of a follower of God calling an angel God?
Quote (david @ Feb. 10 2010,21:54) If as you say, angels are not gods (Elohyim) “at all” why does the Bible use that exact term to describe them?
The Bible doesn’t, does it David? The writer of the book of Hebrews in chapter 2:7 in quoting Pss 8:5 does not equate “Elohyim” with the NT word “Theos” for God.Therefore the writer understood the proper translation of the Hebrew word Elohyim in its context as being a ruler or mighty one and not “a god” or Theos!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2010,13:59) David Quote (david @ Feb. 10 2010,21:54) WJ, I think you missed my question. For the third time: If as you say, angels are not gods (Elohyim) “at all” why does the Bible use that exact term to describe them?
And you will get the same response…YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, AND AFTER ME THERE CONTINUED TO BE NONE“. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” Isa 43:10 NWT
Maybe you should talk to Watchtower and see if the NWT paraphrasers can change it so it supports your belief in other gods!
I know you are smart enough to know what I am saying or are you just being stubborn?
Paul agrees with the Hebrew text for he writes…
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE” For even if there are “so called gods”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),. 1 Cor 8:4
Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; “do not invoke the names of their gods or swear by them”. You must not serve them or bow down to them. Josh 23:7
Do you see it David. Men make these so-called gods that are not made nor formed by YHWH, therefore they are not gods at all but merely that which men have made.
Where is there a follower of YHWH that calls any of these so called gods their god? Where is the example of a follower of God calling an angel God?
Quote (david @ Feb. 10 2010,21:54) If as you say, angels are not gods (Elohyim) “at all” why does the Bible use that exact term to describe them?
The Bible doesn’t, does it David? The writer of the book of Hebrews in chapter 2:7 in quoting Pss 8:5 does not equate “Elohyim” with the NT word “Theos” for God.Therefore the writer understood the proper translation of the Hebrew word Elohyim in its context as being a ruler or mighty one and not “a god” or Theos!
WJ
WJthat also disqualifies Jesus to be god and the holy spirit to be god.
only one in one=one the only one
Quote Therefore the writer understood the proper translation of the Hebrew word Elohyim in its context as being a ruler or mighty one and not “a god” or Theos! –wj
So, are you now saying that “god” (theos/Elohyim) essentially means “mighty one”?
What great progress we are making WJ.
Quote If as you say, angels are not gods (Elohyim) “at all” why does the Bible use that exact term to describe them? –me
Are you saying the the Bible doesn't refer to angels with the use of the word Elohyim? (Yes or No)?
If the word Elohyim (god) is used with reference to them, then in what sense?In the sense that they are “mighty ones” or “rulers.”?
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
Because if that is what you are saying, you have finally discovered what I have been saying to you in literally hundreds of posts. The word Eloyhim/theos essentially means “mighty one” and hence, of course can be applied to the Creator, Jesus, angels, judges, etc, etc. The fact that many different ones are mighty ones, or are referred to by that word, does not in itself mean a single thing, at all.
Let the back peddling begin…..
Quote (david @ April 13 2010,16:57) The fact that many different ones are mighty ones, or are referred to by that word, does not in itself mean a single thing, at all.
DavidBut it is significant! Because you have yet to address the point that no follower of YHWH or Jesus Old or NT called an Angel their “god” or any 'elohiym's for that matter, but when it comes to Jesus they did!
So if God formed other gods as you would say that Jesus is, then John and the Apostles were comitting the worst form of blasphemy by putting Jesus who you say is “a god” next to the Father! He was either the “True God” to them or he was not God at all. Isa 43:10
So the point is that all others were so-called gods and not gods at all! Or are you still going to remain stubborn and blind and stick your head in the sand and continue to confess Polytheism!
David you say that “essentially 'elohiym means mighty one”, so according to you essentually anyone who is a mighty one today is “a god”, right?
No back peddling here. When are you going to believe YHWH's words! The NWT contradicts itself David!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2010,09:46) Quote (david @ April 13 2010,16:57) The fact that many different ones are mighty ones, or are referred to by that word, does not in itself mean a single thing, at all.
DavidBut it is significant! Because you have yet to address the point that no follower of YHWH or Jesus Old or NT called an Angel their “god” or any 'elohiym's for that matter, but when it comes to Jesus they did!
So if God formed other gods as you would say that Jesus is, then John and the Apostles were comitting the worst form of blasphemy by putting Jesus who you say is “a god” next to the Father! He was either the “True God” to them or he was not God at all. Isa 43:10
So the point is that all others were so-called gods and not gods at all! Or are you still going to remain stubborn and blind and stick your head in the sand and continue to confess Polytheism!
David you say that “essentially 'elohiym means mighty one”, so according to you essentually anyone who is a mighty one today is “a god”, right?
No back peddling here. When are you going to believe YHWH's words! The NWT contradicts itself David!
WJ
WJ,Man you took David down for the full count!
YHWH's statement that there was no God formed before or after Him shoots David's Polytheism to hades. It shoots to hades the erroneous “onlybegotten” reading as found in some of our English translations.
thinker
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