Thomas Paine, Influential philosopher

[Stu]

Paine's view that god's only revelation is nature is a substitute for atheism in the days before Darwin and Wallace. The only need for a god for these deists was to explain the apparent design of life. My guess is that today Paine would agree with Richard Dawkins.

Stuart

[Not3in1]

I don't know, what I've read of Payne so far leads me to believe he is convinced of an Almighty.

[Stu]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 12 2008,12:39)

I don't know, what I've read of Payne so far leads me to believe he is convinced of an Almighty.

Can you say what convinced him? Was it the same thing that convinced others, that the Judeo-christian god makes no sense at all but we cannot just have appeared from nowhere (the argument from design)?

Such people gave away god-belief after Darwin published the Origin of Species.

Stuart

[NickHassan]

Hi Stu,
You certainly rely on men of knowledge and worldly influence and quote many.
Is this because you have difficulty working stuff out yourself?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,16:55)

Hi Stu, You certainly rely on men of knowledge and worldly influence and quote many. Is this because you have difficulty working stuff out yourself?

Good grief.
You love to pick fights don't you, bro?

Love cover's a multitude of sins.

“When you love someone you have no time to judge them”
Mother Theresa

[Not3in1]

Quote (Stu @ April 12 2008,16:45)

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 12 2008,12:39) I don't know, what I've read of Payne so far leads me to believe he is convinced of an Almighty. Can you say what convinced him?  Was it the same thing that convinced others, that the Judeo-christian god makes no sense at all but we cannot just have appeared from nowhere (the argument from design)? Such people gave away god-belief after Darwin published the Origin of Species. Stuart

Exactly – the design factor was what brought him to consider there must be an Almighty. I agree.

[kejonn]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 12 2008,00:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,16:55) Hi Stu, You certainly rely on men of knowledge and worldly influence and quote many. Is this because you have difficulty working stuff out yourself? Good grief. You love to pick fights don't you, bro? Love cover's a multitude of sins. “When you love someone you have no time to judge them” Mother Theresa

Sadly, Nick's attitude towards unbelievers is a strong incentive to not become a believer.

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,16:55)

Hi Stu, You certainly rely on men of knowledge and worldly influence and quote many. Is this because you have difficulty working stuff out yourself?

Do I give the appearance of having such difficulty?

How do you judge my reliance? What great body of original thought of your own do you put next to mine to stave off your hypocricy?

Stuart

[Not3in1]

Quote (kejonn @ April 12 2008,18:57)

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 12 2008,00:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,16:55) Hi Stu, You certainly rely on men of knowledge and worldly influence and quote many. Is this because you have difficulty working stuff out yourself? Good grief. You love to pick fights don't you, bro? Love cover's a multitude of sins. “When you love someone you have no time to judge them” Mother Theresa Sadly, Nick's attitude towards unbelievers is a strong incentive to not become a believer.

The dogmatic ones do tend to turn a deaf ear to opportunities where love could show the way – a lot brighter than smart-alec remarks and judgemental finger-pointing.

This is one of the main reasons, as you said, that folks do not find Christianity attractive.

Paul encourages us to make the gospel attractive! Something to think about.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
They would not be here judging God if they were honest searchers.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,07:58)

Hi not3, They would not be here judging God if they were honest searchers.

That is the difference between you and me, Nick, I do not see that Kevin is judging God, rather he is judging the bible.

The bible is not God.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
The work of Satan is to separate God from His Word thus undermining faith.

Thus the lambs become confused and more vulnerable to the cunning and voracious wolf.

What we have seen here recently is the impact of that dangerous spiritual disease called doubt.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,16:34)

Hi not3, The work of Satan is to separate God from His Word thus undermining faith. Thus the lambs become confused and more vulnerable to the cunning and voracious wolf. What we have seen here recently is the impact of that dangerous spiritual disease called doubt.

With the view of Yahweh being so brutal in the bible, have you stopped to think that the bible itself may be the work of “satan”?

[Cato]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,09:34)

Hi not3, The work of Satan is to separate God from His Word thus undermining faith. Thus the lambs become confused and more vulnerable to the cunning and voracious wolf. What we have seen here recently is the impact of that dangerous spiritual disease called doubt.

If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.
Rene Descartes

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
Voltaire

[Stu]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 13 2008,03:52)

Quote (kejonn @ April 12 2008,18:57) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 12 2008,00:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,16:55) Hi Stu, You certainly rely on men of knowledge and worldly influence and quote many. Is this because you have difficulty working stuff out yourself? Good grief. You love to pick fights don't you, bro? Love cover's a multitude of sins. “When you love someone you have no time to judge them” Mother Theresa Sadly, Nick's attitude towards unbelievers is a strong incentive to not become a believer. The dogmatic ones do tend to turn a deaf ear to opportunities where love could show the way – a lot brighter than smart-alec remarks and judgemental finger-pointing. This is one of the main reasons, as you said, that folks do not find Christianity attractive. Paul encourages us to make the gospel attractive!  Something to think about.

Paul's doctrines are the ugliest though!

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,07:58)

Hi not3, They would not be here judging God if they were honest searchers.

Would you like to define 'honest searcher' for us?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,09:34)

Hi not3, The work of Satan is to separate God from His Word thus undermining faith. Thus the lambs become confused and more vulnerable to the cunning and voracious wolf. What we have seen here recently is the impact of that dangerous spiritual disease called doubt.

One man's spiritual disease is another's honest searching. Not all of us see the world through your blinkers Nick.

Stuart

[kejonn]

I wonder how much doubt goes through the mind of a suicide bomber before he blows himself and many others up? Blind faith can be harmful.

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
The faith of a child is necessary to enter the Kingdom.
Once within the depths of God's wisdom is all accessible.
But the simplicity therin is too much for the philosophers.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,22:56)

Hi KJ, The faith of a child is necessary to enter the Kingdom. Once within the depths of God's wisdom is all accessible. But the simplicity therin is too much for the philosophers.

Child suicide bombers in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Pentagon: Children Used In Suicide Bombing

Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers

[Author]

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