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I'm going to take the time to type and express my understanding. Feel free to say whatever you like, I don't care.
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God is love
love means that you care about something more than yourself.
For God to love us, he would have to care about us more than he does himself.
Jesus Christ once said, that there is no GREATER demonstration of love…than for one to lay his life down for his friends (or brother).
If God is the ultimate being and perfect in all ways, everything he does has to be ultimate and perfect.
So if there is no greater demonstration of love than to lay one's life down for another.
Then for God to demonstrate HIS love… he would have to lay down HIS life.
No one else's
If his son was a different being than himself…
even the sacrifice of his son, wouldn't demonstrate God's love…until he layed down his OWN life.
———-
but God cannot die…it is impossible…
how can God Lay down his life for us if he cannot die.
———-
The only human comprehensible way of laying down his life, would be symbolically.
———-
We know from scripture that even this physical world, we believe to be REAL is actually an illusion.
That this physical world in which is “seen”
proceeds from the “real” spiritual world, which is “unseen”
———-
So this physical world is a symbol of the spiritual world.
Everything happens first in the spirit before it happens in the physical.
I guess that is why this “Law of Attraction” theme works, and is so popular.
It isn't anything different than what Jesus preached, but it says thoughts and feelings manifest in the physical.
Which means…
if you wanna be rich physically, you first have to be rich spiritually.
————-So if God…a real, true, good, righteous spirit wanted to die.
He could not do it literally…
he'd have to do it symbolically.
If the physical world is symbolic of the spiritual world
then God COULD techinically die physically, to demonstrate true love to mankind.
————
Because what is physical proceeds from the spirit.
If God died physically…he could demonstrate his act of love towards mankind…then raise up another physical body since we understand that the physical proceeds from the spiritual.
If God died spiritually…everything would cease to exist.
In which would be a truly impossible feet, for if everything could cease to exist…
ceasing to exist would be a concept superior to God…
and if God is the source of all things, then it simply would just be impossible.
————
but dying physically would be possible since the spirit is eternal, and many more physical bodies of God could at any time be recreated from the dust of the world.
————-
So has God, symbolically demonstrated that he loves us?
Absolutely, with the Physical death of Jesus Christ in whom he was manifested.
————-
and the spirit in which God is, raised him from the dead, which further solidifies that the physical proceeds from the spirit.
————-
Why did God become a man to physically die?
because he was reconciling mankind back to the spirit.
There had to be a lineage, or bloodline of some sort.
No greater love is there than to lay down your life for a brother
God had to become our bretheren.
Instead of creation, he had to become one of us…so that in life after death we can become one of his.
——–
He of course had to pick the holiest of man, in which was found amongst the Jewish people from that of the bloodline of David and Judah.
———
That to me, was the purpose of Jesus' virgin birth.
Spiritually connected to God The Father Spirit…
Physically connected to David, through the flesh of Mary…
Priestly connected through the tribe of Judah by “marriage” from Mary's husband Joseph.which marriage is a representation of dedication and commitment to one another, in the way we should be with God.
Even when things get tough and your on the verge of leaving a spouse…it is your duty to work it out and stay connected in faith.
————-
Jesus The Word of God is a Son unto YHVH The Father because YHVH is subject to his OWN goodness.
He being God cannot break who he is…
he is real beyond real
he is true beyond true
and with that understood…
cannot deviate from who he is.
Being subject to himself, makes him Father of all…
and also Son unto himself.This realization of who he is, this self reflected thought and awareness of himself…
is and was revealed to creation.
This revelation of himself…
is his Word.
The Word of God.
in whom we beheld his Glory as the only begotten son of The Father.
Coming from the loins of YHVH himself, subject to all things Good.
——–
This is my poem of truth.
Hi RokkaMan,
That was ceative and thought out. Wouldn't that make Jesus the representation of God instead of the representation of His nature? Why can't He have just had a Son…simple. Maybe He couldn't come as a man because that would mean that He would have to give up His power and then if all things are held together by the word of His power…then fizzle…if He gives up His power then nothing can be held together. So, just as God cannot lie, He cannot give up His power. And so He gave us the God from God, the next best thing. While the Son gave up His power to become like man, His Father still held everything together.Is He a true Son of not is the question.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2010,07:24) Hi RokkaMan,
That was ceative and thought out. Wouldn't that make Jesus the representation of God instead of the representation of His nature? Why can't He have just had a Son…simple. Maybe He couldn't come as a man because that would mean that He would have to give up His power and then if all things are held together by the word of His power…then fizzle…if He gives up His power then nothing can be held together. So, just as God cannot lie, He cannot give up His power. And so He gave us the God from God, the next best thing. While the Son gave up His power to become like man, His Father still held everything together.Is He a true Son of not is the question.
The fullness of the deity dwelt in bodily form as the person of Jesus Christ.Jesus was not only the representation of YHVH the unknowable, but was also the representation of his nature as well.
The Word of God is God revealed.
Jesus embodied everything that makes God, God.
———All things were created by his Word…
so Jesus Christ is the Head of all things, in whom is headed by YHVH from whom he came from.
———
God from God? No and Yes…
No if he is a God before YHVH, Yes if he is representing the one true God…manifested unto creation.
———
YHVH didn't become a man…
The Word of God became a man…
The Word of God is the perfect reflection and representation of YHVH.
The Word of God CAME FROM YHVH himself, and all his powers are FROM YHVH.
He temporarily suspended his glory and power to become man, and after fufilling his role…
He was restored all authority.
———–
The is the whole point of me saying God cannot die…he's the spirit and source of all things.
The Word of God is his self realizing awareness of himself…taken form, manifested, and proclaimed to all creation.
———–
It is very important to understand the difference between the two.
YHVH being the source of all things…he is unknowable to anything.
So he had to make himself knowable.
He did that by communicating himself to creation.
By communicating and expressing who he is…
is who we behold as The Word of God…or Jesus Christ.
——-
What is revealed does not encompass the totality of the revealer.
——–
When The Word of God died in flesh on the cross…
The Source > who is YHVH was still God in heaven, and held all power.
If you understand the distrinction between YHVH and The Word of God…
you will see they are one in the same being…
YHVH being the source, The Word being him making himself known to creation.
So YHVH the source didn't die on the cross…like i stated, that's impossible…
his Word died on the cross.
——-
Which in essence is the same thing.
If you went into a closest, no one on earth would know you exist at that point in time. Even though you do exist, if no one can see you…you are just as good as not existing.
The same with The Word of God dying…
if he disappears, then creation will not know God.
and if we can't know God, it is almost as good (bad) as him not existing at all.
and if we can't know God…we also can't know anything Good.
If YHVH did not raise his word from death…all of creation would be living in Hell.
——-
What I have explained here is not contrary to what you're saying, this is just to elaborate the understanding so you can see LU….that YHVH didn't give his power up to hold everything together, The Word of God gave his power up.
but it is also important to know they are one in the same.
YHVH being the source.
The Word of God, being what is revealed about The Source.
If we don't know his Word, we cannot know him…
if we cannot know him, he doesn't exist to US.
Elaborating the closet analogy might help a bit better.
——
If you went into a closet in an unkowable location.
No one on earth would know you exist for you cannot communicate with ANYONE.
——
Now if you grabbed a cell phone and called the president, the president would now be aware of your existance.
If you instructed him to broadcast your telephone conversation to the world…The world would now know you exist.
——-
If one day you cut the phone off, and no one could communicate with you…
even though you truly still exist in the closet…
no one on earth would know it.
Therefore it'd be like you didn't exist at all.
——–
That is the best description of YHVH and his Word I can think of.
YHVH is like the person in the closet.
The Word of God is like him talking on the cell phone…
The president would be like the prophets.and the broadcast would be like The Holy Bible.
—–
If YHVH put His Word to death, or the cell phone to death…
it's almost like putting himself to death even though he still exists.
——
The Word is authority over all things, because what The Word says…COMES FROM YHVH The Source.
——
It's confusing because people may see The Word of God as God himself…
He is and he isn't.
He is very much God as much as the voice coming through the cell phone is God speaking.
He isn't God as much as the actual voice coming through the cell phone, is recreated AC electrical signal being produced by the audio components of the cell phone.
——–
The Word of God is as much God as he is God's very own awareness of himself reflected unto creation…kind of like his literal voice.
But isn't YHVH because The Word is God revealed and does not encompass The Revealer.
———
I hope this makes sense.
Hi RM:
God did not become a man and will never be a man. He made man in His Own image. Jesus is the “express image of His Person”.
The body of Christ is God's own flesh and blood, and is God's body. God is a Spirit, and He has spoken to humanity through his Son in these last days. If God is speaking, that is the Word of God. Jesus said the it was the Father doing the works through him, and said that he who has seen “me” has seen the Father.Did God taste death for every man. No, not literally, but in a sense he did because Jesus was obeying Him, and so what they did to Jesus they were doing to Him, and the same with us when they persecute us for serving Him, they are persecuting Him also.
Love in Christ,
MartyI revised my post, to pick at it, point by point so you can clearly see that you are in 100% agreement with me.
You speak as if you're disagreeing with me, but your not.
Quote God did not become a man and will never be a man YHVH The Source did not die on the cross.
The Word of God, which is the express, perfect, reflected image of The Source…died on the cross.
——–
Quote He made man in His Own image. Jesus is the “express image of His Person”. He made man in the image of The Word of God.
The image of God, is The Word of God.
(God is unknowable, to know him would be revealed…what is revealed is The Word of God, God's image is The Word of God).
God is an unknowable spirit that makes himself knowable through his Word.
Quote The body of Christ is God's own flesh and blood, and is God's body. God is a Spirit, and He has spoken to humanity through his Son in these last days. The Word of God is his son…we beheld his glory as the only begotten of the Father…Jesus Christ.
If God is speaking that is The Word of God…
Quote If God is speaking, that is the Word of God. Jesus said the it was the Father doing the works through him, and said that he who has seen “me” has seen the Father. yes i've said that.
Jesus Said it is his father doing the works through him…
The Source is exactly that, The Source…
nothing happens without him moving.
When he moves, we can perceive it through The Word of God in which is his son.
We cannot perceive the source himself, only what he reveals…and what is revealed is The Word of God.
Who has seen what is revealed, see's The Source…or at least what is revealed of The Source…
yes I agree there too.
Quote Did God taste death for every man. No, not literally, but in a sense he did because Jesus was obeying Him, and so what they did to Jesus they were doing to Him, and the same with us when they persecute us for serving Him, they are persecuting Him also. Did God taste death for every man…no not literally?
Did i not say, he tasted death symbolically in the literal flesh…for God The Spirit cannot die?
but in a sense he did because it was symbolic?
——-
lol
so you wrote all of this in an attempt to disprove me, yet you've agreed with every point 100%
This is the truth of God's Word i've been looking to establish among all christians…If god is true and his word is true…then how come we've been so divided?
——-
Marty I believe this is God demonstrating in you where the folly of our division lies…
It is not in God's Word, but in our own human prejudice.
You came to disprove me, but you demonstrated God's truth instead.
We are in agreement 100%
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 14 2010,09:02) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 14 2010,08:51) Hi RM: God did not become a man and will never be a man. He made man in His Own image. Jesus is the “express image of His Person”.
The body of Christ is God's own flesh and blood, and is God's body. God is a Spirit, and He has spoken to humanity through his Son in these last days. If God is speaking, that is the Word of God. Jesus said the it was the Father doing the works through him, and said that he who has seen “me” has seen the Father.Did God taste death for every man. No, not literally, but in a sense he did because Jesus was obeying Him, and so what they did to Jesus they were doing to Him, and the same with us when they persecute us for serving Him, they are persecuting Him also.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You speak as if you're disagreeing with me, but your not.YHVH The Source did not die on the cross.
The Word of God, which is the express, perfect, reflected image of The Source…died on the cross.
——–
He made man in the image of The Word of God.
The image of God, is The Word of God.
(God is unknowable, to know him would be revealed…what is revealed is The Word of God, God's image is The Word of God).
God is an unknowable spirit that makes himself knowable through his Word.
The Word of God is his son…we beheld his glory as the only begotten of the Father…Jesus Christ.
If God is speaking that is The Word of God…
yes i've said that.
Jesus Said it is his father doing the works through him…
The Source is exactly that, The Source…
nothing happens without him moving.
When he moves, we can perceive it through The Word of God in which is his son.
We cannot perceive the source himself, only what he reveals…and what is revealed is The Word of God.
Who has seen what is revealed, see's The Source…or at least what is revealed of The Source…
yes I agree there too.
Did God taste death for every man…no not literally?
Did i not say, he tasted death symbolically in the literal flesh…for God The Spirit cannot die?
but in a sense he did because it was symbolic?
——-
lol
so you wrote all of this in an attempt to disprove me, yet you've agreed with every point 100%
This is the truth of God's Word i've been looking to establish among all christians…If god is true and his word is true…then how come we've been so divided?
——-
Marty I believe this is God demonstrating in you where the folly of our division lies…
It is not in God's Word, but in our own human prejudice.
You came to disprove me, but you demonstrated God's truth instead.
We are in agreement 100%
Hi RM:Jesus said the Word's that I speak they are “spirit and they are life”. The Word of God did not die. As you stated, the spirit cannot die. They killed the body, but they could not kill the soul. The life of the flesh is in the blood.
Love in Christ,
MartyI think that if God lost His cell phone in the closet, He would beat on the door
I think we are similar. I equate the word with the Son. The Son is the begotten God. The Father is the begetter.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2010,09:13) I think that if God lost His cell phone in the closet, He would beat on the door I think we are similar. I equate the word with the Son. The Son is the begotten God. The Father is the begetter.
Amen, I like to read it like this but means the same thing nonethelessThe Son is God Revealed
The Father is the Revealer.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,09:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
rockmanyou doing a good job to try to understand scriptures but no you did not make second grade;
first God is not in service to man,secondly love does not imply stupidity,specially coming from God,
God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not.
there is no truth in the unbeliever.
Pierre
Marty said:
Quote The body of Christ is God's own flesh and blood, and is God's body. Thanks Marty! This is what Keith and I have been trying to tell you. God became incarnate.
WJ and I are slowly cuttin through the cobwebs and the muck in your mind.
Good show Marty!
the Roo
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,07:32) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,09:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
rockmanyou doing a good job to try to understand scriptures but no you did not make second grade;
first God is not in service to man,secondly love does not imply stupidity,specially coming from God,
God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not.
there is no truth in the unbeliever.
Pierre
t,What are your credentials?
the Roo
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,07:32) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,09:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
rockmanyou doing a good job to try to understand scriptures but no you did not make second grade;
first God is not in service to man,secondly love does not imply stupidity,specially coming from God,
God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not.
there is no truth in the unbeliever.
Pierre
What do you mean by, I did not make second grade?God is not in service to men?
We are his children…he definately is in service to us as we are to him.
because he loves us.
——-
Love does not imply stupidity…
are you calling God stupid?
because i'm not…and in what way would you be implying that I am calling him stupid.
——–Quote God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not. Only The Father in heaven is good. I am a wretch in desperate need of the blood of Jesus Christ. I don't disagree there.
but i'm not demonstrating anything to understand what I do not…
frankly that sentence doesn't even make sense.
——-
but everything I have said, is my summed up interpretation of what I've learned as a christian, in reference to the identity of The Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.
who are you to condemn.
You can't even judge, for what I speak is truth from the bible.
——-
If i've made any points that you disagree, why don't you bring them up and lets discuss it….
——–
I think Kangaro Jack said it way better than I am doing now….
what are your credentials?
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,08:16) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,07:32) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,09:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
rockmanyou doing a good job to try to understand scriptures but no you did not make second grade;
first God is not in service to man,secondly love does not imply stupidity,specially coming from God,
God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not.
there is no truth in the unbeliever.
Pierre
What do you mean by, I did not make second grade?God is not in service to men?
We are his children…he definately is in service to us as we are to him.
because he loves us.
——-
Love does not imply stupidity…
are you calling God stupid?
because i'm not…and in what way would you be implying that I am calling him stupid.
——–Quote God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not. Only The Father in heaven is good. I am a wretch in desperate need of the blood of Jesus Christ. I don't disagree there.
but i'm not demonstrating anything to understand what I do not…
frankly that sentence doesn't even make sense.
——-
but everything I have said, is my summed up interpretation of what I've learned as a christian, in reference to the identity of The Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.
who are you to condemn.
You can't even judge, for what I speak is truth from the bible.
——-
If i've made any points that you disagree, why don't you bring them up and lets discuss it….
——–
I think Kangaro Jack said it way better than I am doing now….
what are your credentials?
RK,Don't sweat what terraricca says.
the Roo
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,15:16) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,07:32) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,09:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
rockmanyou doing a good job to try to understand scriptures but no you did not make second grade;
first God is not in service to man,secondly love does not imply stupidity,specially coming from God,
God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not.
there is no truth in the unbeliever.
Pierre
What do you mean by, I did not make second grade?God is not in service to men?
We are his children…he definately is in service to us as we are to him.
because he loves us.
——-
Love does not imply stupidity…
are you calling God stupid?
because i'm not…and in what way would you be implying that I am calling him stupid.
——–Quote God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not. Only The Father in heaven is good. I am a wretch in desperate need of the blood of Jesus Christ. I don't disagree there.
but i'm not demonstrating anything to understand what I do not…
frankly that sentence doesn't even make sense.
——-
but everything I have said, is my summed up interpretation of what I've learned as a christian, in reference to the identity of The Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.
who are you to condemn.
You can't even judge, for what I speak is truth from the bible.
——-
If i've made any points that you disagree, why don't you bring them up and lets discuss it….
——–
I think Kangaro Jack said it way better than I am doing now….
what are your credentials?
rockmantell me what is a righteous man,??
tell me what is a wicket man?and then do you understand the difference?
it would not matter what you know ,but if you serve God ,
the truth of God was good from eternity and will be for eternity.
you say that you take your scriptures knowledge out of the bible so is Satan wen he quoted them to Christ,and to Eve
you can see there are many here that believe in the trinity and defending it but not for the truth of God glory.
jack is one and is friend JW and others
your question would have been more appropriate if you ask the God in witch you say you have faith,IF HE WOULD DISAGREE
i did not call you stupid or God stupid,but if you reason in a way that make God looks like he does not know what he does,this make him look stupid.
your question was made to inflate your ego not Gods glory.
you can speak the tongue of angels……but if you do not have love you failed.this is key.
I am no one,
but my faith is as solid as the rock were it is build on.Pierre
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,14:47) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,07:32) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,09:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
rockmanyou doing a good job to try to understand scriptures but no you did not make second grade;
first God is not in service to man,secondly love does not imply stupidity,specially coming from God,
God is God and you are man and not a good one to see by your so call demonstration to understand what you do not.
there is no truth in the unbeliever.
Pierre
t,What are your credentials?
the Roo
hi Jackwell at the least i do not have to lie about it.
Pierre
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,10:55) 942767 do you agree or disagree?
is there anyone that disagrees?
Hello RM,Your premise was right but that's about all: IMO
Truth:
God is love.
YOU:
Why did God become a man to physically die?
ME:
He didn't. Why are you trying to promote a lie?
Man physically came about by physical dirt…not spirit as you claim.
Then God breathed into him….spirit (life)
Where did all this garbage come from? A book about spirits?
Please, you need to get into the Bible….and give some Scripture to try to support your statements, no?
The heading is “Scripture & Biblical Doctrine” not “Skeptics”.
The Professor
Here is an interesting quote from Ignatius, a disciple of John who wrote John 1:1:
Quote It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not to be one. “The kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.” [591] Men “believe with the heart, and confess with the mouth,” the one “unto righteousness,” the other “unto salvation.” [592] It is good to teach, if he who speaks also acts. For he who shall both “do and teach, the same shall be great in the kingdom.” [593] Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, first did and then taught, as Luke testifies, “whose praise is in the Gospel through all the Churches.” [594] There is nothing which is hid from the Lord, but our very secrets are near to Him. Let us therefore do all things as those who have Him dwelling in us, that we may be His temples, [595] and He may be in us as God. Let Christ speak in us, even as He did in Paul. Let the Holy Spirit teach us to speak the things of Christ in like manner as He did. So much is understandable when you can see the Father as the unbegotten God and the Son as the begotten God of the Father. In this quote, Ignatius calls Jesus God, son of the living God. He also says that we can be His (the Son's) temples and He may be in us as God.
From here: http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/fathers/ignatius/epistle-ephesians.asp?pg=23
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