This is what Jews believe

[bodhitharta]

IN SHORT… The Bible is clear, and it is consistent. One person cannot die for the sins of another. This means that the guilt from the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another person. First, in Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people regarding the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the person who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, “Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18 “The soul that sinneth, it shall die… the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Finally, Jeremiah looks towards the day when the nonsense that one man’s death atones for another man’s sins shall no longer be believed by anyone, in Jeremiah 31:29-30 “In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

[bodhitharta]

IN SHORT… If one believed that a blood sacrifice was necessary before Gd would forgive you, then even one example where Gd forgave without a blood sacrifice would prove that this idea is UnBiblical. There are many such examples, but the most interesting is found in the Book of Leviticus. The reason this is so interesting is that it comes right in the middle of the discussion of sin sacrifices, which is found in the first chapters of this book. In Leviticus 5:11-13, it states, “If, however, he cannot afford two doves or two young pigeons, he is to bring as an offering for his sin a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering.” One can also see that one does not need a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins in the Book of Jonah 3:10. There, the Bible simply states that Gd saw the works of the people of Ninevah. Specifically it says that the works Gd saw were that they stopped doing evil, and so Gd forgave them. There are plenty of other examples, and the idea that one needs a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins is UnBiblical.

[bodhitharta]

IN SHORT… What, EXACTLY does Gd say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH? In Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Gd calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him, “for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their Gds; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their Gds. In Jeremiah 19:4-6, Gd tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind to demand it from His creation, “They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind.” We see the same thing in Psalm 106:37-38, and in Ezekiel 16:20. This means that Gd would not accept Jesus's death on the cross as a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. The very idea of that Gd would accept a human sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins is UnBiblical.

[Stu]

A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity.

Classic. These Abrahamists are crazy.

Keep going! Very entertaining.

Stuart

[Stu]

By the way, this material is copied and pasted from here , without reference.

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

bodhitharta.

Satan was defeated by a wisdom that predated his existence and a wisdom that you demonstrate as to not understanding yourself.

The powers of this age were not aware of the consequences of their actions when they crucified Christ. It was part of the plan and because they didn't understand it, they did the predictable thing which led to their downfall. So obviously you are not privy to this wisdom.

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.  No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.  None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
  “What no eye has seen,
  what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
  the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
  The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

Also, Psalms was written quite a long time before Jesus was born and yet even in this book we find this:

My God My God, why hast thou forsaken me……

I am poured out like water,
  and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
  it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
  and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
  you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs surround me,
  a pack of villains encircles me;
  they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
  people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
  and cast lots for my garment.

And Jesus last words were “My God My God, why hast thou forsaken me” as is recorded in the gospels. People who witnessed this wondered why God had forsaken him to the cross thinking him to be a cursed man. But the truth was, it was part of the plan, and Jesus saying these words would have led to the hearers reciting this Psalm to themselves as this was the custom. i.e., if I quote the first line, then you recite the rest. This was a demonstration for them as to what was happening had they recited the Psalm according to the custom. Jesus said this to show his hearers that this was written before hand and thus part of the plan.

Your Koran and Prophet of course ignores the true meaning of Jesus death for all, because as it is written just as sin entered the word through one man, so did righteousness enter the world through one man, Christ Jesus. And how did this righteousness enter into the world, it was by the sacrifice of God's son who removed the penalty of sin that was due to us according to God's own law, (the soul that sins must die). This is the mercy of God and God is merciful.

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38)

A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart

Hi Stuart,

You are fun to have around too.  

Your friend,
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi BD,

Trying to disprove the bible's message with the bible is fruitless;
can you truly not see the error in this way of thinking?

Your friend,
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:39)

By the way, this material is copied and pasted from here , without reference. Stuart

Hi Stuart,

I believe you are right, and I think it is against the rules here
also not to give credit where the copied material came from.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:39)

By the way, this material is copied and pasted from here , without reference. Stuart

You are right Stu it all came from

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/

I wiuld have been if I could edited the reference in

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38)

A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart

Not , quite I am actually demonstrating how people who believe in the same God can have very different viewpoints and yet many or most Christians are pro-Judaism but anti-Muslim but the Muslim is Pro Christ and The Jews are anti Jesus Christ.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2011,18:43)

bodhitharta. Satan was defeated by a wisdom that predated his existence and a wisdom that you demonstrate as to not understanding yourself. The powers of this age were not aware of the consequences of their actions when they crucified Christ. It was part of the plan and because they didn't understand it, they did the predictable thing which led to their downfall. So obviously you are not privy to this wisdom. We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.  No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.  None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:   “What no eye has seen,   what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”—   the things God has prepared for those who love him— 10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.   The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. Also, Psalms was written quite a long time before Jesus was born and yet even in this book we find this: My God My God, why hast thou forsaken me…… I am poured out like water,   and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax;   it has melted within me. 15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,   and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;   you lay me in the dust of death. 16 Dogs surround me,   a pack of villains encircles me;   they pierce my hands and my feet. 17 All my bones are on display;   people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my clothes among them   and cast lots for my garment. And Jesus last words were “My God My God, why hast thou forsaken me” as is recorded in the gospels. People who witnessed this wondered why God had forsaken him to the cross thinking him to be a cursed man. But the truth was, it was part of the plan, and Jesus saying these words would have led to the hearers reciting this Psalm to themselves as this was the custom. i.e., if I quote the first line, then you recite the rest. This was a demonstration for them as to what was happening had they recited the Psalm according to the custom. Jesus said this to show his hearers that this was written before hand and thus part of the plan. Your Koran and Prophet of course ignores the true meaning of Jesus death for all, because as it is written just as sin entered the word through one man, so did righteousness enter the world through one man, Christ Jesus. And how did this righteousness enter into the world, it was by the sacrifice of God's son who removed the penalty of sin that was due to us according to God's own law, (the soul that sins must die). This is the mercy of God and God is merciful.

Psalm 21:11For they intended evil against thee: they imagined a mischievous device, which they are not able to perform.

Psalm 91

1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

T8 I appreciate your post but I must ask you this, if what you say and believe is correct then that would certainly be the end of the story right? Mission accomplished?

So why is it that in revelation does it say

Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

You said you believe it's all in the bible from beginning to end but the bible says

Revelation 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Something else was to be revealed after the Bible

Revelation 10

7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

10And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

So we know for sure from this what is in the Bible was not the Final Mystery of God otherwise there would be no need for this little book that's bitter to your stomach I believe this book is the Quran it's 1 little book, it's not a Bible or any sort of collection it is 1 little book

7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Revelation 10
11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

What other book after the Bible collection has been to many peoples, nations and tongues and Kings?

You say they didn't understand the plan but what I am saying is the plan went beyond what you thought the crucifixion was appealing to those who demand and love Sacrifice but God has already made it clear as Jesus said:

Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

He did not come to die for your sins according to Jesus:

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Now Jesus says that if you understand that God will have Mercy and not Sacrifice he would not be condemned because he is guiltless, for you to believe what you believe you have to believe that God will have Sacrifice and not Mercy and HE will condemn the GUILTLESS is that really your position?

It is not the position of God at all

Job 4:6-7

6 Should not your piety be your confidence
and your blameless ways your hope?

7 “Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished?
Where were the upright ever destroyed?

When they thought Jonah had drowned they said:

Jonah 1:14
Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said
, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.

They really thought they saw Jonah perish and for 3 days and 3 nights noah was kep safe and ALIVE if someone from that boat had seen Jonah don't you think they would have thought they saw someone from the dead?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:48)

Hi BD, Trying to disprove the bible's message with the bible is fruitless; can you truly not see the error in this way of thinking? Your friend, Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED,

I am not trying to disprove the bibles message I am clarifying it, You and those who are Jewish are reading the same words up to the NT which means nothing to them your religion is newer theirs is much much older they have studied these scriptures, recited these scriptures and sung these scriptures for thousands of years and they were “Chosen” to do this so maybe there is a bigger story here that you are missing

[terraricca]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,12:38)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:48) Hi BD, Trying to disprove the bible's message with the bible is fruitless; can you truly not see the error in this way of thinking? Your friend, Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED, I am not trying to disprove the bibles message I am clarifying it, You and those who are Jewish are reading the same words up to the NT which means nothing to them your religion is newer theirs is much much older they have studied these scriptures, recited these scriptures and sung these scriptures for thousands of years and they were “Chosen” to do this so maybe there is a bigger story here that you are missing

bod

yes we reading the same book ,BUT NOT WITH THE SAME INTENTIONS,

JUST LIKE YOU READ IT ;BOD; YOU READ IT TO FIND SOMETHING YOU CAN BE USING TO UPLIFT YOUR ISLAM AND KORAN DOGMA

SO YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND MORE OF ANYTHING ,

AND SO IT IS WITH ANY MEN JEWS OR NOT,HOW COULD YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING YOU DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE TELL ME

Pierre

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,04:48)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38) A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart Not , quite I am actually demonstrating how people who believe in the same God can have very different viewpoints and yet many or most Christians are pro-Judaism but anti-Muslim but the Muslim is Pro Christ and The Jews are anti Jesus Christ.

I feel I used fewer words to say the same thing.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 21 2011,06:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,12:38) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:48) Hi BD, Trying to disprove the bible's message with the bible is fruitless; can you truly not see the error in this way of thinking? Your friend, Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED, I am not trying to disprove the bibles message I am clarifying it, You and those who are Jewish are reading the same words up to the NT which means nothing to them your religion is newer theirs is much much older they have studied these scriptures, recited these scriptures and sung these scriptures for thousands of years and they were “Chosen” to do this so maybe there is a bigger story here that you are missing bod yes we reading the same book ,BUT NOT WITH THE SAME INTENTIONS, JUST LIKE YOU READ IT ;BOD; YOU READ IT TO FIND SOMETHING YOU CAN BE USING TO UPLIFT YOUR ISLAM AND KORAN DOGMA SO YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND MORE OF ANYTHING , AND SO IT IS WITH ANY MEN JEWS OR NOT,HOW COULD YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING YOU DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE TELL ME Pierre

Your argument is flawed because I do believe it's just I believe in something greater than you. Jews don't believe they killed their long awaited Messiah if they had no salvation would be had for the Jews but Islam is saying they didn't kill the Messiah and Christians believe that the killing of the Messiah was for their salvation and because of that they believe in God

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

These people have gained faith that they didn't have, faith in God which is Salvation.

Luke 14:27
Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

Don't you believe that Jesus beared that cross for you?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2011,08:33)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,04:48) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38) A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart Not , quite I am actually demonstrating how people who believe in the same God can have very different viewpoints and yet many or most Christians are pro-Judaism but anti-Muslim but the Muslim is Pro Christ and The Jews are anti Jesus Christ. I feel I used fewer words to say the same thing. Stuart

Actually you said fewer words that meant a lot less

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2011,21:44)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38) A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart Hi Stuart, You are fun to have around too.   Your friend, Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Especially funny when he starts swinging his great arms around while grunting and fuming.

Try it. Say something logical to him about the creator, and watch him start screaming.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,04:48)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38) A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart Not , quite I am actually demonstrating how people who believe in the same God can have very different viewpoints and yet many or most Christians are pro-Judaism but anti-Muslim but the Muslim is Pro Christ and The Jews are anti Jesus Christ.

The Jews missed their messiah and this gave opportunity for the gentiles. Both Jews and Muslims do not recognise who Jesus was. They both recognise Jesus, but not as the son of God and the messiah that died for the sins of mankind.

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 21 2011,09:02)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2011,04:48) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2011,16:38) A muslim trying to play judaism off against christianity. Classic.  These Abrahamists are crazy. Keep going!  Very entertaining. Stuart Not , quite I am actually demonstrating how people who believe in the same God can have very different viewpoints and yet many or most Christians are pro-Judaism but anti-Muslim but the Muslim is Pro Christ and The Jews are anti Jesus Christ. The Jews missed their messiah and this gave opportunity for the gentiles. Both Jews and Muslims do not recognise who Jesus was. They both recognise Jesus, but not as the son of God and the messiah that died for the sins of mankind.

Perhaps they didn't believe in scapegoating using a human as the sacrifice.

The Jews prefered to pile the sins into an actual goat then drive it off a cliff.

In islam there is no such scapegoating, the unrepentant just have to wait for “a painful doom”.

Cheerful stuff this fascist totalitarian Bronze Age brutality!

Stuart

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