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Nick,
Perhaps it is time you dethrown the scripture.
Scripture is about God. It is not God himself. There is nothing particularly spiritual about the words themselves. It is a tutor and governor to lead us to Christ. In otherwords it consists of guidlines to follow that will lead us to experiantial relationship with Christ.
I prefer to walk with the living person of Christ and not primarily with a book about Him. People that are scriptural in preference to relational or functional end up as head knowledge Christians. If their head knowledge is also wrong, then they are in even worse shape.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2007,09:40) Hi M,
You did not answer the question so you and I could make such a judgement.
What do you mean?Hi M,
If it is just a fanciful myth we are warned about them.
1 Timothy 1:4
nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
2 Timothy 4:4
and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Titus 1:14
not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2007,09:45) Hi M,
Did this event happen to you or anyone you know?
Yes it did happen to a friend of mine.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2007,09:49) Hi M,
If it is just a fanciful myth we are warned about them.
1 Timothy 1:4
nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
2 Timothy 4:4
and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Titus 1:14
not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.
These scriptures do not apply to this story. The love and tenderness of God is not speculation, nr ids it a myth. That which teaches the tenderness of God love toward us does further the administration of God.The love of God is the primary motive of God. Those things that further Mans' understanding of those thruths works and functions toward God's desires.
Hi M,
Certainly.
Father God is love
God loves His children, even all men.
We should all know the love of our Father God
But for building doctrine we should prefer the evidences of Scripture.The functional view is abstract and human, rather akin to the philosopher of Ecclesiastes.
” 2Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2007,10:11) Hi M,
Certainly.
Father God is love
God loves His children, even all men.
We should all know the love of our Father God
But for building doctrine we should prefer the evidences of Scripture.The functional view is abstract and human, rather akin to the philosopher of Ecclesiastes.
” 2Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.”
Wrong again —- The functional view is hebrew. You know hebrew as in the writers of scripture.
Secondly — No one was talking about doctrine. The story is about an experencial relationship with Christ.
Thirdly — Those that have head knowledge without experiancing the relationship with Christ are far closer to the philosophers you mentioned then those that seek real functional walking with God.Get over your disecting cut and paste concepts. Can you not simply accept a plesent story that reminds us of God's love for us without trying to psycho analise it? Are you so wraped up in your mental debate that you cannot see the simple love of God?
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.Isa 13:1 ¶ The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Isa 13:2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
Isa 13:3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, [even] them that rejoice in my highness.
Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, [even] the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
Isa 13:6 ¶ Howl ye; for the day of the LORD [is] at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces [shall be as] flames.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isa 13:14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
Isa 13:15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined [unto them] shall fall by the sword.
Isa 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
Isa 13:17 ¶ Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and [as for] gold, they shall not delight in it.
Isa 13:18 [Their] bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.
Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
Isa 13:20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
Isa 13:21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
Isa 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in [their] pleasant palaces: and her time [is] near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Mat 24:41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Quote (martian @ June 15 2007,09:43) Nick,
Perhaps it is time you dethrown the scripture.
Scripture is about God. It is not God himself. There is nothing particularly spiritual about the words themselves. It is a tutor and governor to lead us to Christ. In otherwords it consists of guidlines to follow that will lead us to experiantial relationship with Christ.
I prefer to walk with the living person of Christ and not primarily with a book about Him. People that are scriptural in preference to relational or functional end up as head knowledge Christians. If their head knowledge is also wrong, then they are in even worse shape.Quote Perhaps it is time you dethrown the scripture. Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Why would any Christian want to dethrown the Word of truth? Together with the Spirit of truth we learn the Father's plan.
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
This scripture says that indeed God will use visions and dreams to get His message to us. We certainly wouldn't want to “dethrown” Acts 2:17 now would we?
So yes God does use other means to personally give us a message just for us.
I shared a dream that the Lord gave me all seemed to really understand and indeed interpreted the dream the same way I did. It was an analogy about my life which the doctors say should end early. That message was just for me and not all Christians. We do serve a personal God! To me that's what makes God, God!
The vision:
The man was lusting! But not after flesh, after LOVE. God IS Love is He not, sending His only begotten Son.
It is love that conquered Satan and still does!
IHN&L,
Ken
Quite so kenrch,
The scriptures are the closest many will ever get to God. It is the bread of life to be devoured hungrily. The Word expresses His heart consistently though through many different vessels over many centuries showing the power is ever of God and not of men.Well you guys can have your relationship with stories about God, I will have my relationship with God himself.
Hi M,
Are the Words of God not Spirit and life to you?Jn 6
” 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. “Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2007,15:41) Quite so kenrch,
The scriptures are the closest many will ever get to God. It is the bread of life to be devoured hungrily. The Word expresses His heart consistently though through many different vessels over many centuries showing the power is ever of God and not of men.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. 35 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name:Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;Rom 14:14 ¶ I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2007,16:55) Hi M,
Are the Words of God not Spirit and life to you?Jn 6
” 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. “
Yes they are but then I understand the meaning of “word”, do you?Perhaps I have not made my position clear. I am not degrading the scripture but rather placing it in proper perspective. Not as the end result but rather a tool to help us get there. The end result is salvation and relationship with Christ and it has a purpose to accomplish something besides simple knowledge. Again salvation does not come from simple knowledge of the blood of Christ but rather an action of the heart to accept the sacrifice of Christ work on the cross. A book is not a being. When we concentrate on a book about Jesus and do not move forward to relationship with Jesus we are missing out.
2 Tim 3
14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.Scripture is a tool. What does it profit a man if God’s goal is for him to build a house and we stop to only admire the tools without doing any real construction. We can look at them swear by them say we believe in their use, take them out and handle them, combine them with other tools and yet never use one to build anything.
The written word is not God himself. God is a personal being who desires relationship with us. You cannot have relationship with a book about God.
Paul uses the term scripture and law interchangeably. In the following verses we see that the scripture cannot impart righteousness. That is the province of God. Scripture is like a treasure map. We can hold the map, give it honor, learn about it, hold it up as precious, but if we never get to the treasure because we are so concentrated on the map, we miss out.Gal 3
21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.Relationship with God is experiancial and not intellectual. Relationship requires action of the heart and personal interaction with God. You cannot do that with a book.
When I speak of dethrowning the scriptures, I speak in the same terms as Paul did. No righteousness can come from the law/scriptures. When I get to heaven, I expect to see Jesus on the thrown and not a book about Jesus.
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