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Irene said:
Quote So if shortly means shortly then forever means forever. Forever is used several times and it is not forever. You have no prove. Shortly does not always mean shortley just like forever. Then what does “shortly” mean?
Verse three says “the time is NEAR.” Does near mean far? Did God lie to the Christians in the seven churches? thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 17 2009,05:10) Irene said: Quote So if shortly means shortly then forever means forever. Forever is used several times and it is not forever. You have no prove. Shortly does not always mean shortley just like forever. Then what does “shortly” mean?
Verse three says “the time is NEAR.” Does near mean far? Did God lie to the Christians in the seven churches? thinker
I have to laugh when I read your post ab9out the Jewish people. Again if you would know one you would not say that. I also don't see any evidence to what you are saying.
That is all I am going to say to this ridiculous post of yours.
Christ will come in due time.
IreneQuote (Cindy @ Aug. 17 2009,12:08) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 17 2009,05:10) Irene said: Quote So if shortly means shortly then forever means forever. Forever is used several times and it is not forever. You have no prove. Shortly does not always mean shortley just like forever. Then what does “shortly” mean?
Verse three says “the time is NEAR.” Does near mean far? Did God lie to the Christians in the seven churches? thinker
I have to laugh when I read your post ab9out the Jewish people. Again if you would know one you would not say that. I also don't see any evidence to what you are saying.
That is all I am going to say to this ridiculous post of yours.
Christ will come in due time.
Irene
Irene,
Revelation 1:3 says that the time is NEAR. Does near mean far? I asked a fair question. Did God lie to the saints in the seven churches? The world is laughing at Christians who ignore anthropological and historical evidence. I was taught that any interpretation of the Bible must agree with historical evidence. The Jews no longer exist as a distinct race just as Jesus said. He said that their house would be left DESOLATE.So laugh all you want. You are making yourself look foolish.
thinker
Quote (princess of the king @ Aug. 18 2009,11:41) Quote I was taught that any interpretation of the Bible must agree with historical evidence why?
It's brings embarassment and shame to Christianity that you would ask.thinker
I think there are still Jewish people around, but the early church fathers writtings do say alot about this. That everything changed around (the temple became not a building but the body, Jerusalem became heavenly not earthly, the church became Isreal, with the 12 tribes becoming instead the 12 apostles, the Jews became like everyone else, their house was left desolate, and they can only be saved by believing Jesus also.The earthly Isreal is no different than anywhere else. Thats just what I gathered from early writtings and the bible.
Peace and Love
karmarieThis is interesting though
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/329/Q1/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rFOgR0sIiEQuote (karmarie @ Aug. 18 2009,21:18) I think there are still Jewish people around, but the early church fathers writtings do say alot about this. That everything changed around (the temple became not a building but the body, Jerusalem became heavenly not earthly, the church became Isreal, with the 12 tribes becoming instead the 12 apostles, the Jews became like everyone else, their house was left desolate, and they can only be saved by believing Jesus also.The earthly Isreal is no different than anywhere else. Thats just what I gathered from early writtings and the bible. Peace and Love
karmarie
Hi Karmarie,Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' “
The house is left desolate UNTIL they say “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!”
Yes, it is true that those who follow Jesus are seen as children of Israel, children of the promise. However, that does NOT erase the direct promises that YHWH specifically gave to the house of Judah and the rest of the 11 tribes.
This has not yet been fulfilled,
Ezek 39:27-29 “When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations.” 28 “Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind.” 29 “I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
My understanding is that when the firstborn of the dead returns as a servant to his Father, fulfilling his Father's promises from long ago, the descendants of the 12 tribes who will have been gathered back to Israel, WILL accept Jesus, and they will become the force of leadership unto all the rest of the nations. Among those nations there will also be leaders who are following the rulership coming out of the nation of Israel. These leaders scattered amongst the nations will work together with the nation of Israel to bring those who survived the end times, into establishing the paradise of the New heaven and earth. This is all part of the first resurrection and the thousand year reign of Christ.
Jodi Lee said:
Quote My understanding is that when the firstborn of the dead returns as a servant to his Father, fulfilling his Father's promises from long ago, the descendants of the 12 tribes who will have been gathered back to Israel, WILL accept Jesus, and they will become the force of leadership unto all the rest of the nations. Among those nations there will also be leaders who are following the rulership coming out of the nation of Israel. These leaders scattered amongst the nations will work together with the nation of Israel to bring those who survived the end times, into establishing the paradise of the New heaven and earth. This is all part of the first resurrection and the thousand year reign of Christ. Christ returned in ad70. The house of Israel was made desolate as Jesus predicted and anthropology confirms this. The “millenniums” were fulfilled before Jesus' first coming. From Christ's first coming to His second coming in AD70 was the “little season” between the millenniums and the judgment. We are now in the new heaven and earth, that is, the new covenant order.
Go to preteristarchive.com
thinker
Greetings Jodi lee and thinker,
I think I am with the Orthodox on this one, which is sort of preterist but also different.
Eastern Orthodox teach
“……The number “thousand” has a symbolic meaning, used to simply denote a very long time, or a very great quantity and includes the idea of perfection or completion. Here, we interpret a thousand years to mean the Church age, where Jesus reigns in the hearts of those who believe. It is the time (now) between the first and second coming of Christ, when satan's power is restricted through the Cross and and Resurrection of Christ, and the saints share in Christ's earthly reign.
The devil is thrown, shut and sealed into the pit for a long period of time (thousand years) to allow the Church to be planted, to grow and to overcome, even in times of persecution and trial. The Bible teaches that satan was bound at the completion of Christ's saving work (see Matthew 12:28-29, Luke 10:17-18, John 12:31-32). He is not totally inactive but he cannot deceive the nations by keeping the Gospel from them. At the close of the Church Age (millennium), satan will be released for a time……..”
This would mean that we are near to this time in the book of Revelations ….
….7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. …..Where is the camp of the saints and the beloved city? This is where I am curious. Because Revelation is written sybolically in most places .In the early church fathers writtings this as I remember reading was not considered to be Jerusalem. Quite the opposite. The antichrist was supposed to come from there.
Eg in Hippolytus XVI
… “For he says, “I considered the beast, namely the fourth; and behold ten horns after it, among which another horn arose like an offshoot; and it will pluck up by the root three of those before it.” And by this offshoot horn none other is signified than the Antichrist that is to restore the kingdom of the Jews. “….http://www.searchgodsword.org/his….-20.htm
The antichrist that is to restore the kingdom of the Jews. Hmmm. Hippolytus is just one piece of writting among many on this.
Peace and Blessings
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 18 2009,14:03) Quote (princess of the king @ Aug. 18 2009,11:41) Quote I was taught that any interpretation of the Bible must agree with historical evidence why?
It's brings embarassment and shame to Christianity that you would ask.thinker
truly thinker,you think your double edge tounge is something new under the sun.
you scream it has been proved, Christ called out it is done, then he died. God does not die, he can't he is spirit, you cannot kill him.
Christ was tempted, by the liar himself, God cannot be tempted.
Christ's blood forgive sins, God does not bleed, he is spirit.
this is basic belief 101.
see, you despiser, marvel and perish for I work a work in your days, a work which you would in no way believe if someone where to declare to you (acts)
truly truly, I say to you, whatever you ask The Father in MY NAME he shall give it to you, Yohanan.
you believe that Christ is in you, then the words that you preach, you believe that you are a god yourself.
You throw your empty words, your worldly knowledge…….one question……..in scripture when we are commanded not to eat blood, did you wait for science to say yes, that's right don't eat blood, disease can come from eating it, when that occurred you finally believed.
i feel sorrow for you, and will keep you in prayer.
The link I gave for the work of Hippolytus appears to have left out half of the writting, heres the full version
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-christ.html
Im finding it pretty interesting, it has alot of detail on the upcoming antichrist, an interesting read indeed.
Quote (princess of the king @ Aug. 20 2009,13:20) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 18 2009,14:03) Quote (princess of the king @ Aug. 18 2009,11:41) Quote I was taught that any interpretation of the Bible must agree with historical evidence why?
It's brings embarassment and shame to Christianity that you would ask.thinker
truly thinker,you think your double edge tounge is something new under the sun.
you scream it has been proved, Christ called out it is done, then he died. God does not die, he can't he is spirit, you cannot kill him.
Christ was tempted, by the liar himself, God cannot be tempted.
Christ's blood forgive sins, God does not bleed, he is spirit.
this is basic belief 101.
see, you despiser, marvel and perish for I work a work in your days, a work which you would in no way believe if someone where to declare to you (acts)
truly truly, I say to you, whatever you ask The Father in MY NAME he shall give it to you, Yohanan.
you believe that Christ is in you, then the words that you preach, you believe that you are a god yourself.
You throw your empty words, your worldly knowledge…….one question……..in scripture when we are commanded not to eat blood, did you wait for science to say yes, that's right don't eat blood, disease can come from eating it, when that occurred you finally believed.
i feel sorrow for you, and will keep you in prayer.
Quote (princess of the king @ Aug. 20 2009,13:20) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 18 2009,14:03) Quote (princess of the king @ Aug. 18 2009,11:41) Quote I was taught that any interpretation of the Bible must agree with historical evidence why?
It's brings embarassment and shame to Christianity that you would ask.thinker
truly thinker,you think your double edge tounge is something new under the sun.
you scream it has been proved, Christ called out it is done, then he died. God does not die, he can't he is spirit, you cannot kill him.
Christ was tempted, by the liar himself, God cannot be tempted.
Christ's blood forgive sins, God does not bleed, he is spirit.
this is basic belief 101.
see, you despiser, marvel and perish for I work a work in your days, a work which you would in no way believe if someone where to declare to you (acts)
truly truly, I say to you, whatever you ask The Father in MY NAME he shall give it to you, Yohanan.
you believe that Christ is in you, then the words that you preach, you believe that you are a god yourself.
You throw your empty words, your worldly knowledge…….one question……..in scripture when we are commanded not to eat blood, did you wait for science to say yes, that's right don't eat blood, disease can come from eating it, when that occurred you finally believed.
i feel sorrow for you, and will keep you in prayer.
Hello! I do agree with most of it, however Christ was the perfect Sacrifice, but it is the Father that has all power and forgives us our Sins. Jesus is our Mediator to go to the throne of the Father to ask for the forgiveness of our sins.
Right we ask all in the name of Jesus Christ.
Peace and Love IreneThere is a Jewish race, there has to be. Apparently Im half Jewish, but I dont care, so what? I dont believe I am special, what a horrible thought!! I am a sinner like everyone. I have absolutly no desire to go to Isreal and claim any right to anything because Gods kingdom is not of this world it is heavenly.God loves everyone regardless of colour race or belief, as long as we embrace his son Jesus, because the Father loves the son, we cant have one without the other. Not now not ever, there can be no second chance, once Jesus returns, and Jesus will return, every eye will see, Jesus will come from above, with multitudes, and each individual of the earth will either fear and hide or will feel in their heart and their love for the Lord will raise them to meet him in the air, his true people will not be able to help themselves, theres alot more than just the body, theres our spirits. I look forward to that day. Whoever calls the name of the Lord will be saved. God knows the intentions of our hearts, we are circumsised not in flesh but in our hearts.
Peace and love
Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 21 2009,10:15) There is a Jewish race, there has to be. Apparently Im half Jewish, but I dont care, so what? I dont believe I am special, what a horrible thought!! I am a sinner like everyone. I have absolutly no desire to go to Isreal and claim any right to anything because Gods kingdom is not of this world it is heavenly.God loves everyone regardless of colour race or belief, as long as we embrace his Son Jesus, because the Father loves the Son, we cant have one without the other. Not now not ever, there can be no second chance, once Jesus returns, and Jesus will return, every eye will see, Jesus will come from above, with multitudes, and each individual of the earth will either fear and hide or will feel in their heart and their love for the Lord will raise them to meet him in the air, his true people will not be able to help themselves, theres alot more than just the body, theres our spirits. I look forward to that day. Whoever calls the name of the Lord will be saved. God knows the intentions of our hearts, we are circumsised not in flesh but in our hearts. Peace and love
In a sense you are right, however God is not finished with Israel. It is His People and what He wanted to do before, He will do in the Millennium. The Jewish people were punished by God and one more punishment is to come according to prophecy. Israel will be grafted in again according to Romans. Personally I don;t understand to much of Prophecy, but my Husband does. Whether He is right in all, time will tell.
He has posted several Articles on this tread. Our users name was IM4Truth. So if you are interested in it, you can look it up.
Peace and Love IreneThanks Irene,
(sorry I called you Cindy in another thread yesterday, It was late and getting tired!)
Blessings
Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 22 2009,22:37) Thanks Irene, (sorry I called you Cindy in another thread yesterday, It was late and getting tired!)
Blessings
That's O.K. I am not easily offended. Being 71 years young has taught me many things about Humans, All have fallen short of the glory of God.
The Love 0f God be with you. Irene
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