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Sorry and no offense but you have to show evidence from context and principle and not just give opinion when searching for truth in the Word. Your suggestion seems to be just an opinion?
“Knowing this first that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man,but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” 2 Peter 1.20-21. KJVWe have already established the context, have we not? (Zech 14). Hermeneutics is subjective, why don't you tell me the principles of interpretation that you operate by — and we will work from there.
Also, aren't you accusing me of something you also indulge in? (i.e. use of opinion). Read what you wrote below:
“Thank you. Psalm 2 is [in my humble opinion] a warning and prophetic word. It relates to the time of the end…”
Please be consistent.
Thank you dear friend… opinion should be recognised and declared, as I did. We all start with opinions but we must be prepared to shed them when they are found to be inadequate.
Submission of our mind to the Word as Truth [Eph 4.23]. Line upon line, precept upon precept[Is 28]. Scripture to interpret scripture. Witnesses. Context. Language. Prayer and study.The helmet of salvation. Care and time.
The jews managed to understand a lot of truth even without the indwelling Holy Spirit by getting to know the Spirit in the Word by careful study but we have the advantage.Zech 14 refers to Jesus as my God-so he is-and The Father is His God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2004,21:19) God has revealed himself in 3 ways to men on Earth, directly and through His Word…as The Father,in Jesus and as the Holy Spirit. So it is not surprising that men have thought of the idea of a trinity. But study of the Word does not reveal three in heaven but only two-The Father and Jesus.There is no mention of The Holy Spirit as a separate person in heaven.Why?
Because God is Spirit. Jesus was filled with the Spirit of God, known in Him as The Spirit of Christ.
When Jesus returned to the Father he sent The Holy Spirit, His Spirit, the Spirit of God to us, to share in His Spirit as we are part of his body on Earth if we join His kingdom.
If the view from heaven disagrees with man's perceptions on Earth which is the correct one?
Hi NH,
If God is Spirit (Jn 4:24), then why is a distinction made between Him and the Holy Spirit in Matt 3:16:17 and 2 Cor 13:14 (to name a few). Why not just call Him (Holy Spirit) 'God' in each instance? It doesnt make sense if The Holy Spirit is 'God's Spirit'. In my mind these are two clearly distinct persons.Hi Is ,
God the Father is in Heaven and has never been ON Earth. He sent His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, to do His work on Earth in Jesus and now in us.
Were the Jews wrong or just ignorant for reading the scriptures and never “recognising “a trinity? Are we just cleverer or better informed so as to be certain of such a conclusion despite the fact it was not revealed in the Old or New Testament?
A Roman Emperor Constantine made this doctrine part of christian tradition when he humanised the plain teachings of the scriptures and led the church away from the safety of it's true roots.
Was he appointed by God to this purpose and is it wise to follow him on this matter than Jesus? Jesus said a wise man builds on the foundation of His teachings. This is not His teaching.
NH,
I can't see how you can read Jn 4:24 and then 2 Cor 13:14 and make sense of the later, in that context. The Holy Spirit may be lied to (Acts 5:3), which indicates that the Spirit may be spoken to. The Spirit may be tested (Acts 5:9), insulted (Heb. 10:29) or blasphemed (Matt. 12:31), which implies personal status. Only a person can be grieved (Is 63:10, Eph. 4:30).I also think you also need to consider Rom 11:25 and Lk 19:41 when referencing Jewish understandings of God and His identity (I assume you mean orthodox Jews, not messianic Jews). The Bible is a Jewish Book in every sense and they can provide us with awesome biblical insights. However, they don't have a monopoly on biblical truths. Remember Jesus had several biblical disputes with the Pharisees, the religious 'professionals' of that era. In one instance he charged them of taking “away the key of knowledge” (Lk 11:52)
Dear brother,
Let us stop intellectualising about persons and instead look at personality, nature, powers and abilities.The fruit of the Spirit is spoken of in Gal 5.22 ,1Cor 13 and Eph 4 -love, joy, peace, patient endurance, kindness, generosity, faith, mildness and chastity.-these are the aspects of the nature and personality of Jesus and of the Holy Spirit and is meant to be expressed in the Body of Christ.
What about the abilities? These are the Gifts of the Spirit. Eph 4 ” it is He who gave apostles, prophets ,teachers, in roles of service for the faithful to build up the Body of Christ ,TILL WE BECOME ONE IN FAITH AND IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD'S SON AND FORM THAT PERFECT MAN WHO IS CHRIST COME TO FULL STATURE.
My point is the nature and personality and powers given by the Spirit are the same that Jesus had ,expressed in His life and used. As we grow spiritually we then become more like Jesus.
This is because the Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Christ and fills the Body of Christ as he filled Jesus. He IS the Spirit of God expressed on Earth.
Trinity is an grossly inadequate concept.
Is ,
” God's Word [Jesus] is living and effective, sharper than any two edged SWORD. It penetrates and divides , soul and spirit, joints and marrow: it judges the reflections and thoughts of the heart. Nothing is concealed from Him, all lies bare and exposed to the eyes of Him to whom we must render an account” Heb 4 12ff.Jesus is often portayed a s having a SWORD coming out of
his mouth.We are told to take the SWORD of the SPIRIT to use against the enemy.
The Spirit of Jesus IS the HOLY SPIRIT.
'Anyone who is so “progressive” that he does not remain rooted in the teaching of Christ [the bible]does not possess God, while anyone who remains rooted in the teaching possesses both the Father and the Son..' 2 John 9
You have got to keep it simple and not wander off the path chasing after myths and curiosities that cannot be proven from the Word.
Hi soxan,
Here is another forum on trinity. Do you believe , as you suggested in another forum, God is in fact three equal persons in something called a godhead? Do you worship and pray to each or to the so called godhead? One of correspondents said he did and it was like going to a company and you never knew which partner you would be dealing with!When your ready to stop beating around the bush, i`ll comply. I can only deal in logic and simple reasoning. Sorry but i don`t go above and beyond my means.
Quote When your ready to stop beating around the bush, i`ll comply. I CAN ONLY DEAL IN LOGIC and simple reasoning. Sorry but i don`t go above and beyond my means. I, Captain, Mr. Spock is the one to see about logic.
Fffflake!
Quote (soxan @ Oct. 21 2005,05:13) When your ready to stop beating around the bush, i`ll comply. I can only deal in logic and simple reasoning. Sorry but i don`t go above and beyond my means.
Great soxan,
So you will use logic and reasoning and not go beyond the revelation of scripture too?
2Jn 1.9
” Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God;the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting, for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds”So let us hear from you, if you can find it, the teaching of Christ that there is a trinity, and he is not the Son of God but God Himself.
You to are a flake! Scripture! Scripture! You scream! Yet you deny scripture! Your issue is not doctrine, its a soul issue that you have to work out with the Lord Himself. Good luck! Goodbye!
Quote You to are a flake! Scripture! Scripture! You scream! Yet you deny scripture! Your issue is not doctrine, its a soul issue that you have to work out with the Lord Himself. Good luck! Goodbye! Slandering Nick too are ye now Captain, not very logical, better have Scotty to beam you up.
Ffffflake!
Quote Ffffflake! If you have flakes Captain, then the logical solution for you, is to have doc Bones to do a complete scan to find the problem.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2005,04:48) Hi soxan,
Here is another forum on trinity. Do you believe , as you suggested in another forum, God is in fact three equal persons in something called a godhead? Do you worship and pray to each or to the so called godhead? One of correspondents said he did and it was like going to a company and you never knew which partner you would be dealing with!
the trouble with this ananlogy is that, with the Trinity, it would not and could not apply. Even if one were to deny the Trinity, one would have to admit, if one were honest, that from within the view that the Trinity is biblical, the view teaches that what one member of the godhead knows as they are in heaven, all know.Its ok to disagree, but it's noy ok to set up straw men or caricatures of your theological opponents view, and a caricature, a straw man, is exactly what this analogy does…..
blessings
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