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God has revealed himself in 3 ways to men on Earth, directly and through His Word…as The Father,in Jesus and as the Holy Spirit. So it is not surprising that men have thought of the idea of a trinity.
But study of the Word does not reveal three in heaven but only two-The Father and Jesus.There is no mention of The Holy Spirit as a separate person in heaven.Why?
Because God is Spirit. Jesus was filled with the Spirit of God, known in Him as The Spirit of Christ.
When Jesus returned to the Father he sent The Holy Spirit, His Spirit, the Spirit of God to us, to share in His Spirit as we are part of his body on Earth if we join His kingdom.
If the view from heaven disagrees with man's perceptions on Earth which is the correct one?
Interesting, but I disagree. The 'Spirit of God' (e.g. Gen 1:2) is distinct from God the Father, in the same way that the 'Son of God' is distinct from the Father. There are a number of passages in the New Testament that mention all three Persons together, often within the space of one or two verses. The following is a comprehensive, though non-exhaustive list of NT passages that support this:
Matthew 3:16,17 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Hebrew 2:3,4
Matthew 28:19 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 Hebrew 3:6,7
Luke 1:35 2 Corinthians 1:21,22 Hebrews 6:4-6
Luke 1:67-69 2 Corinthians 3:3,4 Hebrew 9:14
John 14:16,17 2 Corinthians 5:5-10 Hebrews 10:12-15
John 14:26 2 Corinthians 13:14 Hebrews 10:29-31
John 15:26 Galatians 3:1-5 1 Peter 1:2
John 16:13-15 Galatians 3:11-14 1 Peter 3:18
John 20:21,22 Galatians 4:4-6 1 Peter 4:14-17
Acts 2:33 Ephesians 1:3-14 2 Peter 1:21-2:1
Acts 2:38,39 Ephesians 2:18 1 John 3:21-24
Acts 7:55 Ephesians 2:22 1 John 4:1,2
Acts 10:38 Ephesians 3:4-7 1 John 4:13,14
Acts 10:46-48 Ephesians 3:14-19 1 John 5:6-9
Acts 11:16,17 Ephesians 4:2-6 Jude 20,21
Romans 5:5,6 Ephesians 5:18-20 Revelation 1:4,5
Romans 8:3,4 Colossians 1:7-10 Revelation 1:9,10
Romans 8:8-11 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10 Revelation 2:7
Romans 8:16,17 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 Revelation 2:26-29
Romans 14:17,18 1 Thessalonians 5:18,19 Revelation 3:5,6
Romans 15:16 2 Thessalonians 2:13,14 Revelation 3:12,13
Romans 15:17-19 1 Timothy 3:15,16 1 Revelation 3:21,22
Romans 15:30 Timothy 4:1-6 Revelation 5:6,7
1 Corinthians 2:8-10 2 Timothy 1:8-14 Revelation 14:12,13
1 Corinthians 2:12-16 Titus 3:4-8 Revelation 22:16-18
(I pulled this off a website)The following 2 verses are particularly significant:
1. At the baptism of Jesus we read, “…he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold a voice out from the heavens saying, 'This is my Son, in whom…'”(Mat 3:16:17). Note that the Spirit descends on Jesus' earthly position, while God the Father speaks from heaven.
2. “May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor 13:14). Here is one of the clearest references to all three different Persons, each designated by their specific ministries.
Jesus was indwelt by the Spirit of God, yet he identified his Father's location as being 'in heaven' many times (Mat 5:16, 5:45, 6:1, 6:9, 7:11…). Further, a competent exegesis of Ps 2 will reveal a 3-way conversation 'in heaven' between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
God Bless
Sadly the huge amount of work to show there is a Father and a Son and a Holy Spirit together in scriptures does not show that there are three Gods in Heaven – but is evidence of God's work on earth. Even the corrupted scripture in the original edition of the KJ in 1 Jn 5 .7 is included in the list. An avalanche of information does not alter the truth and it is sad too that the real meaning of those verses has been missed by those attempting to justify an untenable belief. Bypass the natural mind and let the Spirit reveal that truth, as every jewel is precious,and not worthy of this this evil manipulation of what are the Words of Life. May God bless you and minister His Spirit abundantly to you and yours.
Firstly, I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is currently in heaven. He's here on earth indwelling His church.
Since you disagree with my interpretation, perhaps you might do me a favour and enlighten me with the “real meaning” of the verses. You dont have to explain them all to me, Mat 3:16,17, 2 Cor 13:14 and Ps 2 will suffice.Thank you. Psalm 2 is [in my humble opinion] a warning and prophetic word .It relates to the time of the end of Jesus's Millenial reign on earth[Rev 20.8-9]when Jesus is Earth's King based on Mount Zion. Satan arouses a worldwide rebellion and armies surround Jerusalem again, only to be destroyed by God. God and Jesus laugh at their folly and God reminds all that Jesus is His Son begotten in eternity and established by God's decree and humble obedience to Him is the wiser action.The Psalm is quoted in Acts 13 .33 and also in Hebrews 1 showing ,by the principle of witnessing scriptures, that this word is very important to God. I will now look at the others. I am not an expert in these things but I love the Word and greatly respect the Author.
Not a bad synopsis, but the since by writing:
“God and Jesus laugh at their folly and God reminds all that Jesus is His Son begotten in eternity and established by God's decree and humble obedience to Him is the wiser action.”
you concede that this Psalm records a conversation between God and Jesus….
Who spoke in verses 2 and 10-11?
2 Cor 13.14 is a farewell blessing to the people. but it is also an appeal to them to live in peace with one another here on earth. It reminds them of the free gift of forgiveness given in the salvation they have received from Jesus Christ, and asks that that same grace be shared with each other in the Body of Christ. In that way they will remain in the family love of their new Father as also in v 11. The Spirit they share and the different gifts given them by the Spirit are to be used for the good of all. “Love one another as I have loved you”.
On the 2 Cor 13:14.
You miss my point. Why would both the Father and His spirit be mentioned in this verse? It wouldnt make sense — unless they are distinct persons.Matt 3.16. Jesus is the Way. When he was baptised, as we must also be, the Father spoke and witnessed that Jesus was His Son.. as when Jesus was glorified on the mountain and reported in 2 Peter 1.17. The Father then anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit, as we must be also giving a sign of the dove, a symbol of peace. Jesus then began His ministry on Earth. God also used another sign, tongues of flame, when the disciples received the same blessing in Acts 2That Spirit was then given to His church when Jesus returned to His Father. All this was to show how to follow Jesus and receive the Salvation of God.
.Hi guys,
I am glad that this topic is being discussed. Although I am yet to understand this subject, I look forward to learning the truth about it. I pray and ask God to reveal his truth to those who search for it, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
A discussion similar to this one is located @
http://heaven.net.nz/cgi-bin….=3;st=0You may be able to glean something from there.
Also, I give you the following scriptures which seem to speak clearly on this subject. The last 2 scriptures are interesting when read together.
John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.Isaiah 6:8-10
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord (Adonay) saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
” 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”And
Acts 28:25-27
25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 ” 'Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'NH, dont want this to get lost in the flurry of postings…its important.
Not a bad synopsis of Ps 2, but the since by writing:
“God and Jesus laugh at their folly and God reminds all that Jesus is His Son begotten in eternity and established by God's decree and humble obedience to Him is the wiser action.”
you concede that this Psalm records a conversation between God and Jesus….
Who spoke in verses 2 and 10-11?
Back to psalm 2.2 The rebellious kings of the earth are quoted as agreeing to fight against God the Father and his anointed Son Jesus, the King of Kings.
10-11 All scripture is written through men by the Holy Spirit and the advice given here is to serve the Father God with fear and respect the authority too of the Son of God…or else.vs 2:
How did you reach the conclusion that the kings of the earth said this?vs 10-11
Advice given by whom??Back to 2 cor 13. The throne of God the Father is in heaven. His Spirit lives among us on earth until called back with us to be with him forever… no problem.
I really don't know how anyone can read Mat 29:20 “…in the name of the Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit” and not make a distinction between God and the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit then why is He mentioned at all in this verse? Seems to me the Holy Spirit goes out of His way to make it obvious to all with an ounce of reason and an open mind that He is a distinct Person.
Back to psalm 2.
KJV 2 ” the kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, 'Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us…' Seems clear to me.
9 “The Lord [Father] hath said unto Me[Jesus]……Thou[King Jesus]shalt break them with a rod of iron: Thou [King Jesus]shalt dash them in pieces like a potters's vessel. Be wise therefore..” The speaker quotes words spoken to Him as King by the Father. Clearly,then, it is the words of Jesus .Back to Matt 3.16. God speaks from His throne in Heaven. His Spirit comes to earth to work His purposes.
Well NH, if you accept that this Psalm is conversational then you really should try to account for who said what and to whom – for all verses:
Here is my take on it:
Narration from heaven, spoken by;
vs 1-5: Holy Spirit to The Father and Son
vs 6: The Father to The Son and The HS
vs 7: The Son to The Father
vs 8,9: The Father to The Son
vs 10-12: The Holy Spirit to the kings of the earth
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