theos

[kejonn]

I'm of the opinion that people in the 21st century, and perhaps even closer to Yeshua' time, lost the true meaning of “theos” in Greek language. Obviously, the Bible translates the word as “God” or “god” depending on the context. However, I think that context can even be skewed to make “theos” appear more than it was originally meant to mean in the original Greek text. So I propose that we study the word “theos” and try to gather information on how it may have been used in the days the New Testament was written.

I will start by listing some quotes that may be different than the typical “God” or “god” translations. From http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/eo15b.htm

Considering what was said above, it would seem that the word theos possibly meant something like “watcher”, or, “he who sees”. That agrees quite well with Greek mythology as well; there, the theoi, who were many, were often considered to be “watchers”.

Again, it might be that the word theos meant “he who sees” or “he who watches”, or something similar – but there is also the possibility that theos was a derivative of Zeus or that had to do with “swiftness” or something similar (the verb theô meant “to run”).

It must be understood that the word theos which was used in the Greek text of the New Testament, was a mere Greek word, and that it was not used only of the true God who is in Heaven. Rather the opposite: There were many theoi in the Greek idol worship system, and even kings and others were called theoi (theoi is a plural form of theos). In other words: The word theos was not in any way a personal name of the true God who is in Heaven. Nor was the Germanic word gott (gut, god) that, and not the Hebrew elohiym either.

In old Greek, the word theos had many meanings. It referred to the numerous Greek gods and deities and to “heavenly powers” and “divinity” and “deity” in general (that is, in reference to the ancient Greek idols and their powers). It was also used of worldly rulers such as the Roman emperors (caesars), and of judges and other “authorities”.

In biblical usage (in the New Testament), the word theos often referred to the true God who is in Heaven, but not always.

The point here is that the Greek word theos was in no way “holy” but had many kinds of uses, and that it mostly referred to the Greek idols and that in some cases it also was used of men of flesh.

As this seems to say, we do not truly understand they way “theos” was used in the New Testament (or the Septuagint) no more than the way “elohim” was used in Hebrew. Typically, the context pointed the way. In the OT, it was easy, but with the various factions, some would see the context differently. Therefore, some who believe that Yeshua is God will write it as such, while those who think Yeshua is a man who represented God to the people would say “a god”.

Again, in the OT is was simpler. The was only one YHWH Elohim. But when Yeshua hit the scene, all bets were off. At least they were starting some time well after his ascension.

[Laurel]

Hi Kejonn,
I just want to note that in the original Hebrew, Elohim was written for the English “God”. YHWH our Elohim in Hebrew is translated as LORD our God in English.

I have a very cool version of Scripture based on the Massoretic text, same as the KJV. This version has written the proper names where the English changed them. If you have a verse in question, and you would like to know if it is LORD, Lord, Elohim, YHWH, let me know.
I know that the Greeks were pagen and did not have a name for the God of the Israelites, because they did not know Him. Theor word for God is probably equivalent to “mighty one” or “most magnificent” or something they would have called one of their pagen deities. I think they worshipped Zeus.

[Proclaimer]

Hey this is a good topic.

[Proclaimer]

This URL may be of some interest.

https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-04.htm

[Cult Buster]

Worshipping Jesus

Quote

Quote (t8 @ May 31 2007,12:48) To WJ. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2007,07:41) t8 How many times does it take t8? You didnt answer the question! *Is there any example of the word “Theos” ascribed to a living man or king or lord or Angel of the most high *in New Testament sciptures* other than Yeshua*?. If not then maybe you should accept what the Apostles and the scriptures say concerning Yeshua being True “Theos”, and that all others are opposites or false.!!! I thought I gave you the examples a while back. Anyway I can post it (again). How about this, if I post the scriptures (again), then you post the scriptures where Jesus is called “theos”. What do you say? t8 No you never gave me any example of the word “Theos” ascribed to a living man or king or lord or Angel of the most high *in New Testament sciptures* other than Yeshua*?. Look close at my question! “Of the most High”. all you have is 13 examples of the word ascribed to false Gods or no Gods at all! Your interpretation of John 10:24 is wrong! Jesus was quoting Psa 82:6 which is under OT law of agency. There is no more such! The word “Theos” is not found in the mouths of any of the New Testament saints in a “true” sence except toward the Father and Yeshua! Do you think Yeshua is promoting polytheism? I dont think so. Is there a contradiction in the words of Jesus and Paul? Jesus said… Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; *The Lord (kurios) our God is *one Lord (kurios)*: 748 times “kurios” is found in the NT scriptures and most all ascribed to Yeshua! Jn 13: 13 Ye call me Master and Lord (kurios): and ye say well; for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord (kurios) and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. Yet Paul says… 1 Cor 8: 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that *there is no such thing as an idol in the world*, and that *there is no God but one*. 5  For even if there are *so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth*, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6  yet *for us there is but one God*, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord (kurios), Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. So now t8, again can you give any example of the word “Theos” ascribed to a *living* man or king or lord or Angel of the most high *in New Testament sciptures* other than Yeshua?. If not, you forcing your interpretation of the word “theos” for Yeshua to mean a god or angel or some other being is a straw. You have no living example in NT scriptures that the word was applied to anything or any one that was “True” or of God and not false. The Father and Yeshua only is found in scriptures as “True Theos”!

[Laurel]

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; *The Lord (kurios) our God is *one Lord (kurios)*:

***************************************************

Mark 12:29 (correct)
And Y'shua answered him,”The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Yisra'el, Yaweh our Elohim, Yaweh is one.

***************************************************
1 Cor 8:6 yet *for us there is but one God*, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord (kurios), Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
************************************************

1 Cor 8:6 (correct)
for us there is one Elohim, the Father, from whom all came and for whom we live, and one Master Y'shua Messiah, through whom
all came and through whom we live.

No more reason to keep carrying on. These ARE the correct words for God, Lord and Lord. I hope this answers your doubts so that you grow in His Spirit.

Love in our Master Y'shua Messiah and our Father YHWH our Elohim,
Laurel

[Laurel]

Just one more…

John 13:13 (correct)
“You call me Teacher and Master, and you say well, for I am.

John 13:17
“If you know these teachings, blessed are you if you do them.

[kejonn]

Just so you all know, kyrios is the word used to replace YHWH in the Septuagint. But this was not always the case, as the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) had been used up to a point. From http://www.equipministry.com/studies/yhwhinnt.htm

The logic presented for the absence of the “full form” of the Divine Name in the NT had been that the inspired writers of the NT made their quotations from the Greek Septuagint version of the OT, which substituted Kyrios or Theos for the Tetragrammaton (an expression generally referring to the Divine Name, literally meaning “having four letters”); that they, therefore, followed the same custom or precedent in their own writings. However,in recent times at least ten fragments of the OT have been found, some of which are the oldest copies available, that did preserve the Tetragrammaton, usually in ancient Hebrew characters.

Commenting on the fact that the oldest fragments of the Greek Septuagintdo contain the divine name in its Hebrew form, Dr. P. Kahle says:

“We now know that the Greek Bible text [the Septuagint] as far as it was written by Jews for Jews did not translate the Divine name by kyrios; but the Tetragrammaton, written with Hebrew or Greek letters, was retained in such MSS [manuscripts]. It was the Christians who replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios, when the divine name written in Hebrew letters was not understood any more.” (The Cairo Geniza, Oxford, 1959, p. 222)

When did Greek translators of O T stop using The Divine Name?

… evidently in the centuries following the death of Jesus and his apostles. In Aquila's Greek Version, dating from the second century C.E., the Tetragrammaton still appeared in Hebrew characters. Also, around 245 C.E., the noted scholar Origen produced his Hexapla, a six-column reproduction of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures: (1) in their original Hebrew and Aramaic, accompanied by (2) a transliteration into Greek, and by the Greek versions of (3) Aquila, (4) Symmachus, (5) the Septuagint, and (6) Theodotion. On the evidence of the fragmentary copies now known, Professor W. G. Waddell says:

“In Origen's Hexapla . . . the Greek versions of Aquila, Symmachus, and LXX [Septuagint], all represented JHWH by PIPI, in the second column of the Hexapla the Tetragrammaton was written in Hebrew characters.” (The Journal of Theological Studies, Oxford, Vol. XLV, 1944, pp. 158, 159)

Some believe the original text of Origen's Hexapla used Hebrew characters for the Tetragrammaton in all its columns. Origen himself stated:

“in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today's Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

As late as the fourth century C.E., Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate, says in his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings:

“And we find the name of God, the Tetragrammaton , in certain Greek volumes even to this day expressed in ancient letters.”

In a letter written at Rome, 384 C.E., Jerome states:

“The ninth [name of God] is the Tetragrammaton, which they considered [a·nek·pho'ne·ton], that is, unspeakable, and it is written with these letters, Iod, He, Vau, He. Certain ignorant ones, because of the similarity of the characters, when they would find it in Greek books, were accustomed to read PIPI [Greek letters corresponding to the Roman letters PIPI].”–Papyrus Grecs Bibliques, by F. Dunand, Cairo, 1966, p. 47, ftn. 4.

Evidence indicates that the “New Testament” writers did NOT substitute The Divine Name with “kyrios,” (Lord) or “theos,” (God).

According to Professor George Howard, Associate Professor of Religion and Hebrew at the University of Georgia:

“In 1944, W. G. Waddell discovered the remains of an Egyptian papyrus scroll, (Papyrus Fuad 266), dating to thefirst or second century B.C., which included part of the Septuagint. In no instance, however, was YHWH translated kyrios. Instead the Tetragrammaton itself– in square Aramaic letters — was written into the Greek text. This parallels the Qumran Covenanters' use of the paleo-Hebrew script for the Divine Name in a document which was otherwise written in square Aramaic script. . . “

“We have three separate pre-Christian copiesof the Greek Septuagint Bible and in not a single instance is the Tetragrammaton translated kyrios or, for that matter, translated at all. We can now say with near certainty that it was a Jewish practice, before, during and after the New Testament period to write the divine name in paleo-Hebrew or square Aramaic script or in transliteration right into the Greek text of Scripture. . . . “

“The divine name, YHWH, was and is the most sacred word in the Hebrew language. So it is hardly likely that Jews of any sort would have removed it from their Bibles. Furthermore, we know now from discoveries in Egypt and the Judean desert the Jews wrote the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew even in their Greek texts. In all likelihood Jewish Christians felt the same way about the divine name and continued to preserve it in Hebrew in their Bibles. A famous rabbinic passage (Talmud Shabbat 13.5) discusses the problem of destroying heretical texts (very probably including books of Jewish-Christians). The problem arises for the rabbinic writer, because the heretical texts contain the divine name, and their wholesale destruction would include the destruction of the divine name. This further suggests that Jewish Christians did not translate the divine name into Greek.”

“But Gentile Christians, unlike Jewish Christians, had no traditional attachment to the Hebrew Tetragrammaton and no doubt often failed to even recognize it. Gentile scribes, who had never before seen Hebrew writing (especially in its archaic form), could hardly be expected to preserve the divine name. Perhaps this contributed to the use of kyrios and theos for the Tetragrammaton. . . . “

“Thus, toward the end of the first Christian century, the use of surrogates (kyrios and theos) must have crowded out the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in both Testaments.”

Thus those who changed YHWH from later copies of the Sepuagint likely started the trend of LORD being used in the place of YHWH, and it has caused much confusion since IMHO. Now, one has to look at the context in the NT to see if “kyrios” is Yahshua or YHWH because of the habit of subsituting “kyrios” for the Tetragrammaton.

Check the wepage I listed out. It has much more than I pasted here.

[Laurel]

Kejonn,
I am glad you did your home work. My Bible has the proper Names, so if you need a proper translation, anywhere in the Tenach or the Messianic writings let me know.
ps. Tenach=Torah, Prophets and wrtings in other words the Old Testament. Messianis writings are the New Testament
Laurel

[Not3in1]

Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 16 2007,17:06)

Kejonn, I am glad you did your home work. My Bible has the proper Names, so if you need a proper translation, anywhere in the Tenach or the Messianic writings let me know. ps. Tenach=Torah, Prophets and wrtings in other words the Old Testament. Messianis writings are the New Testament Laurel

Which translation do you have?

Thanks

[Laurel]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 16 2007,18:22)

Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 16 2007,17:06) Kejonn, I am glad you did your home work. My Bible has the proper Names, so if you need a proper translation, anywhere in the Tenach or the Messianic writings let me know. ps. Tenach=Torah, Prophets and wrtings in other words the Old Testament. Messianis writings are the New Testament Laurel Which translation do you have? Thanks

“The Scriptures” published by Institute For Scripture Research. Northriding South Africa

Based on the Massoretic text, same as the KJV.

Here is a note for a website:
http://www.messianic.co.za

Here is a phone number: (502) 281-9833

Laurel

[Not3in1]

Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 17 2007,04:10)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 16 2007,18:22) Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 16 2007,17:06) Kejonn, I am glad you did your home work. My Bible has the proper Names, so if you need a proper translation, anywhere in the Tenach or the Messianic writings let me know. ps. Tenach=Torah, Prophets and wrtings in other words the Old Testament. Messianis writings are the New Testament Laurel Which translation do you have? Thanks “The Scriptures” published by Institute For Scripture Research. Northriding South Africa Based on the Massoretic text, same as the KJV. Here is a note for a website: http://www.messianic.co.za Here is a phone number: (502) 281-9833 Laurel

Thanks, Laurel! I'll check this out right now.
Mandy

[Not3in1]

I went to the website Laurel recommended and cut the following:

If we were under the law, the only way we could possibly be saved is if we NEVER SINNED.

Where is only ONE who 'never sinned'. He was born under the law…yet without sin

Galatians 4:4 – But when the fullness of the time had come, YAHWEH sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 – to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

We are adopted sons of Yahweh through the righteousness of Yahushua the Messiah! We are saved from having to live a perfect and sinless life.. Therefore, again our salvation cannot come by our own righteousness/law-keeping..but by HIS righteousness alone.
[END QUOTE]

I love the last sentence. By salvation coming from the righteousness of Yahweh – we cannot take credit for living our lives/following the law……it will not earn for us salvation. Try as we might, nothing we can DO will keep us in right standing with our Maker. Only the blood of Christ is our hope. Praise the Father for his provisions and for not holding us to the Law for salvation. Whew!

Thanks, Laurel for this site and information. I'm going to continue to study through this site and it's links. I'm particularly interested in learning God's name and reasons why the translator's used LORD instead of Elohim/Yahweh. I'm not sure if I will ever get used to not using “Jesus” and using “Yahushua” but if it's the truth………I want it.

[kejonn]

Not3,

I don't think that calling him Yeshua, Yahshua, or even Jesus matters. I simply do it because it is a symbolism of how I am seeing him for the way he was always meant to be. And I even went from Yeshua to Yahshua! But in the end, I think he hears any of those names because he is able to read your heart and intentions, not the various names he has been given.

[Not3in1]

Thanks, KJ.

Let's keep track: Jesus, Yashua, Yeshua, Yahushua….are there others? Good grief. Clearly there is some debate as to which one of these is correct. Why can't anything be simple?

[kejonn]

Only God and Jesus (Yahshua, Yeshua, Yahushua, Jenoshua, etc.) know for sure .

[michaels]

this (yhwh)in exidus verse15 can not be Gods name ,must have been changed because his real name is to special.they must have writen this as they write LORD every where now.read ex 6:3,the name in this verse must have been changed for it is clear that abraham knew God as (yhwh).the only name abram dident know God by is (I AM),so this must truly be his memorial name forever,not (YHWH).

[kejonn]

I find it interesting that Satan is call “ho theos” in 2 Cor 4:4. That is, “theos” with the article. In other places, this would be translated as “God”, yet we know Satan is not God. So what does this say about the word “theos” as it was used in 1st century Greek?

[Proclaimer]

Yes there are many gods, but only one who is the God of all.

I think the context is important and the fact that Satan is the god of this age, shows us how the word “theos” can be used.

Satan offered all the kingdoms of the world to Christ. Yeshua didn't say that they weren't his to give, our messiah instead refused the temptation.

Yes, “theos” is an interesting word and the more we know about it, the more we can repel the arguments that Trinitarians make. A lot of their so-called proof derives from their understanding of “theos” and they conveniently ignore the scriptures that apply “theos” to others.

[kejonn]

t8,

Just how many times was Jesus called “theos” in the Bible? And how many times was he called “theos” with the article?

[Author]

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