The Word and the Light

[Laurel]

kejonn,
I just decided not to read any more of Nick's posts. I also see that he undermines the Word purposefully. He is the wolf in sheeps clothing sent to decieve, like I almost was when I first came here.

It is useless to try to explain anything to him, since he has another agenda.

He will question and question untill you allow him to frustrate you if you let him. Don't get sidetracked.

Kejonn your thoughts are certainly inspired by His Spirit. I see that in your words. Something one can not have who doesn't have the Spirit in him.

[Laurel]

Our Father in heaven, raised up His Son in more ways than one. Scripture tells us that a father who does not care for his children is an imbusul. Knowing that Y'shua had a heavenly Father, I know that the heavenly Father helped to raise His Son from birth, and teach Him through His Word how He should grow. I am sure that as a boy Y'shua studied Scripture every day. I believe He made His own copy of the Torah and the prophets to study from. He had Zacheriah His uncle and the others to help.

He was born poor. The “wise men” brought Him treasure. I think the treasure was spent on the materials needed to make that very expensive scroll, or scrolls.

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,

Everything matters as far as him being just like us.
We cannot follow someone who was born with a head start.
Anyone born of Woman has a problem as Jb 25 shows.
Christ was a man, conceived and born of woman.
He inherited her nature and had to to be a son of David.
Christ was son of man as well as Son of God and able to inherit sin nature through Mary.
His triumph was to be an overcomer and to never sin.
We too are called to be overcomers.
Christ was the lamb of God taken from the flock of man.
He was the chosen sacrificial lamb, the first fruits and unblemished by sin.
He had to be clean to be used as a vessel for the Spirit of God.
God declared him as the Holy One of God by filling him,
not allowing his body to rot and raising him from the dead.
Christ was a not a multicomponent man but a true son of Adam[man]
You separate the Word from Yeshua as if Yeshua was only flesh.
If so Yeshua was not a man as men are body, soul and spirit.
Many times Yeshua is said to be a man in scripture
and nowhere does it say he was a superman.
No other prophet was a superman.
John was filled with the Spirit from the womb.
There are no similar statements about Jesus in scripture.
He is not said to be filled with the Spirit till after the Jordan
It is vital he was completely like us in all ways but just did not sin.
He was said to have been tempted and as James says temptation is from within.
The Word was with God and emptied himself and came and partook of our flesh nature.
The Word is never said to have inhabited God but in three places to have been WITH GOD.
Then Hebrews says how God would be father to him-fathers do much more than give life to.
Christ knew Who his real father was at the age of 12 but the family neighbours testified.

Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

[Mr. Steve]

Nick; Remember what Peter said, Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but by the incorruptible word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. God's Word is eternal because God is eternal. Jesus prayed to the Father that we would be sanctified by the truth, thy word is truth. David said that thy word is a light unto my feet and a lamp unto my path. Through the word God imparts himself into us and causes us to grow. Jesus said the words I speak unto you are spirit and they are life. So the word represents the essence of God and causes us to know God personally. He lights “my path”.

[NickHassan]

Hi Mr S,
2Peter 1
” 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
We need both the lamp to our feet -the Word
and
The light from the morning star-Christ within.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,07:38)

Hi KJ, Everything matters as far as him being just like us. We cannot follow someone who was born with a head start. Anyone born of Woman has a problem as Jb 25 shows. Christ was a man, conceived and born of woman. He inherited her nature and had to to be a son of David. Christ was son of man as well as Son of God and able to inherit sin nature through Mary.

Have you studied Job much? If so, you'd realize that Job's “friends” had their own agendas. I'd have to go back and study the different personalities — its been a while since I've looked at Job — but I wouldn't take Bildad's words (Job 25) as strong evidence. Not all things in scripture are good as written. You have to know why they are written.

Sometimes you have to reason what is being said. Bildad said “How then can a man be just with God? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?”. This has nothing to do with the woman other than you can't be born of a man! This was just a statement that says all people are born unclean in the sight of God. Yet no man had ever been born of God and Man until Yeshua, so he breaks the rules.

BTW, Job rebukes Bildad in ch.26 for the statements he made in ch.25

Quote

His triumph was to be an overcomer and to never sin. We too are called to be overcomers. Christ was the lamb of God taken from the flock of man. He was the chosen sacrificial lamb, the first fruits and unblemished by sin. He had to be clean to be used as a vessel for the Spirit of God. God declared him as the Holy One of God by filling him, not allowing his body to rot and raising him from the dead. Christ was a not a multicomponent man but a true son of Adam[man]

You say that Yeshua was a true son of Adam. But is this Adam after the fall, or before? Because Paul says he was the last Adam. Adam was perfect until his sin brought about death. Jesus was perfect but his death gave life.

If what you say is true, then what then gave him the strength to resist sin as a child, as a teenager, as a young adult? You have not answered that sufficiently if at all. I gave an answer that had some measure of reason, yours lacks it.

Quote

You separate the Word from Yeshua as if Yeshua was only flesh. If so Yeshua was not a man as men are body, soul and spirit. Many times Yeshua is said to be a man in scripture and nowhere does it say he was a superman. No other prophet was a superman. John was filled with the Spirit from the womb.

And as far as being “Superman”, what others could perform the miracles he did? Yes, the power was from on high, but he had the advantage of being the only one who could contain the fullness of God without the limits that any other human body could.

Quote

There are no similar statements about Jesus in scripture. He is not said to be filled with the Spirit till after the Jordan It is vital he was completely like us in all ways but just did not sin. He was said to have been tempted and as James says temptation is from within.

Temptation comes from his human side. What kept him from giving in before the anointing? You have not provided any answer. I have stated his conception by Holy Spirit and Mary. No other man could make such a claim.

Quote

The Word was with God and emptied himself and came and partook of our flesh nature. The Word is never said to have inhabited God but in three places to have been WITH GOD.

And yet it said he was God. I have provided my reasoning as to the wording of this verse, yet the fact remains that the Word had a very close communion with God.

Quote

Then Hebrews says how God would be father to him-fathers do much more than give life to. Christ knew Who his real father was at the age of 12 but the family neighbours testified. Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Yes, Fathers do so much more. But you still have not provided sufficient reasoning behind his ability to resist sin. Calling him an “overcomer” will not do.

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
Was Adam perfect?
God said His creation was “very good” and there is a difference.
Jesus was the son of the imperfect Adam.

Lk 3
“23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, …..
38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
Rom 8
” 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

He came in the likeness of sinful flesh.
He did not sin.
How?
Does it say?
Should we guess?
When does God ascribe sin to men?

[NickHassan]

HI KJ,
If we would divide Job and cast bits of scripture aside where would we stop?

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
You say Jesus HAD A HUMAN SIDE.
He WAS a HUMAN

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
You say
“And as far as being “Superman”, what others could perform the miracles he did?”

Like raising the dead?

Peter, Paul and Elisha did these same things
by the same anointing.

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
You say
“Yes, the power was from on high, but he had the advantage of being the only one who could contain the fullness of God without the limits that any other human body could.”

I would have thought this was by the choice of God, not his nature.

Jn 3
” 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.”

[NickHassan]

Hi KJ,
You say
“Sometimes you have to reason what is being said. Bildad said “How then can a man be just with God? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?”. This has nothing to do with the woman other than you can't be born of a man! This was just a statement that says all people are born unclean in the sight of God. Yet no man had ever been born of God and Man until Yeshua, so he breaks the rules.”

Jesus was BORN OF WOMAN
He OVERCAME because he was greater than the god of this world
We follow him.
Luke 11:22
But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1 John 2:13
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:09)

Hi KJ, Was Adam perfect? God said His creation was “very good” and there is a difference. Jesus was the son of the imperfect Adam.

C'mon Nick. You just said that what God created was not less than perfect. By saying this, you are saying that God is flawed and that He failed in creation. Can anything less than perfection come from God?

By saying “very good”, you may do well to remember Yeshua's words about only one being good. Does that mean that God is simply good?

We have no reason to believe that Adam was less than perfect until the fall. Unless you consider having a free will as imperfect.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:34)

Hi KJ, You say “And as far as being “Superman”, what others could perform the miracles he did?” Like raising the dead? Peter, Paul and Elisha did these same things by the same anointing.

No doubt. I hope you don't think I'm saying that Yeshua did anything without the power of his Father. I am certainly NOT saying that.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:36)

Hi KJ, You say “Yes, the power was from on high, but he had the advantage of being the only one who could contain the fullness of God without the limits that any other human body could.” I would have thought this was by the choice of God, not his nature. Jn 3 ” 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.”

Of what significance was the virgin birth then? Just so he could be called Son of God? Was that the only reason? I think not.

I am not saying he didn't struggle against his flesh, but I am saying that his nature that came from the conception of the Holy Spirit aided dramatically in his ability to overcome. He still had to war against his flesh, but he was not born of the spirit of the ruler of this world.

The verses you list still do not address his ability to resist sin.

[NickHassan]

Quote (kejonn @ July 13 2007,17:02)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:09) Hi KJ, Was Adam perfect? God said His creation was “very good” and there is a difference. Jesus was the son of the imperfect Adam. C'mon Nick. You just said that what God created was not less than perfect. By saying this, you are saying that God is flawed and that He failed in creation. Can anything less than perfection come from God? By saying “very good”, you may do well to remember Yeshua's words about only one being good. Does that mean that God is simply good? We have no reason to believe that Adam was less than perfect until the fall. Unless you consider having a free will as imperfect.

Hi KJ,
No, quoting scripture.

Gen 1
” 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”

Argue with scripture if you must, not me.

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:46)

Hi KJ, You say “Sometimes you have to reason what is being said. Bildad said “How then can a man be just with God? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?”. This has nothing to do with the woman other than you can't be born of a man! This was just a statement that says all people are born unclean in the sight of God. Yet no man had ever been born of God and Man until Yeshua, so he breaks the rules.” Jesus was BORN OF WOMAN He OVERCAME because he was greater than the god of this world We follow him. Luke 11:22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Once we receive Christ, are we then sin free? Do we stop sinning? We can overcome, but that doesn't mean we always will without falter. Therefore, we get back to Yeshua. If merely being anointed by God made one sin free, why did Paul still sin? Why did the OT prophets still sin? Why was Yeshua the ONLY one to remain sin free?

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,17:17)

Quote (kejonn @ July 13 2007,17:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:09) Hi KJ, Was Adam perfect? God said His creation was “very good” and there is a difference. Jesus was the son of the imperfect Adam. C'mon Nick. You just said that what God created was not less than perfect. By saying this, you are saying that God is flawed and that He failed in creation. Can anything less than perfection come from God? By saying “very good”, you may do well to remember Yeshua's words about only one being good. Does that mean that God is simply good? We have no reason to believe that Adam was less than perfect until the fall. Unless you consider having a free will as imperfect. Hi KJ, No, quoting scripture. Gen 1 ” 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Argue with scripture if you must, not me.

Mark 10:18 – And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Perhaps you need to consider God's definition of good.

[NickHassan]

Quote (kejonn @ July 13 2007,17:11)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,15:36) Hi KJ, You say “Yes, the power was from on high, but he had the advantage of being the only one who could contain the fullness of God without the limits that any other human body could.” I would have thought this was by the choice of God, not his nature. Jn 3 ” 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.” Of what significance was the virgin birth then? Just so he could be called Son of God? Was that the only reason? I think not. I am not saying he didn't struggle against his flesh, but I am saying that his nature that came from the conception of the Holy Spirit aided dramatically in his ability to overcome. He still had to war against his flesh, but he was not born of the spirit of the ruler of this world. The verses you list still do not address his ability to resist sin.

Hi KJ,
It is fine to express an opinion so long as you acknowledge it as opinion.
God made very sure there was no doubting He was the Father of Jesus and there were no valid competing claims.

What difference was there after the Jordan? Did his works of power not begin then?.

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