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Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 21 2007,08:31) Who has deceived you? Jesus said “He, the Holy Spirit” “Whom” as I have pointed out before. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit FROM the Father. He didn't say He was sending the Father.
I might just have to leave you guys to it. Getting a headache from the brick wall lol.
Hi Oxy,
Christ sent the Holy Spirit given to Him to also enliven His body on earth.
He remained one in the Spirit with God who is Spirit, and we too become one with him and God in that same Spirit when we are reborn from above.
So if the Spirit is another person this beautiful p[lan of God's would not be possible.Sorry, I disagree, and quite frankly, I think I will just leave it at that for the time being. It's obvious you have made up your mind and solid Scripture that I have been showing you will not alter it.
Hi Oxy,
Sorry but I must have missed the solid ones because all I saw was your weak implications from the use of HE.Hi,
The will of God is done.
We need to pray that His will be done on earth.
But there are several levels of that will being done through us that are possible.Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.Hi,
Man does not have completely free will or God could not be allowed to be God.
However we do have choices and options.Those in Christ have an easy yoke because God guides our will.
Phil2
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 19 2007,09:44) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 18 2007,21:36) Ummm…. call me dumb or forgetful but could you refreshen my mind and explain to me what the Will of God is please? Sorry
Hugs
Phoenix:(
This is the will of God, but most here will deny that He can accomplish his will.1 Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour
1 Ti 2:4 Who WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
His will is that all men be saved, but most people say that he can't accomplish that will because mans free will is greater than God's will.
Tim
Hi TimothyVI, I have just read this post of yours. A very good reply, I believe you are on the right track, though few will agree, I do. Gods will is treated by orthodoxy as somthing He “hopes” to accomplish, but is thwarted by “mans” will. Gods will “WILL BE DONE!” Who can resist?Blessings.
Hi CO,
The “right track” in your eyes is into the land of hopeful speculation.
The lake of fire awaits many.Hi Nick,
The “lake of fire” is the second death, see Rev. 20:14-15. Then see 1Cor.15:26-27 “The last enemy is being abolished : death.Blessings.
22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Copied and pasted from the “Concordant Literal New Testament”.
Hi CO,
Do you get confused between death and the lake of fire?
Death, Hades, angels and men are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.No confusion, death is death, the absence of life. First, second. The “lake of fire” is figurative, it is the second death.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
So you allegorise what you dislike?
Seems to be real as writtenRev 20
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Wrong translation, see the “Concordant Literal New Testament” for a correct translation.
viz. Rev 20:13-14 This is the second death – the lake of fire.Obviously a figurative example.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
We remain unconvinced.
Choosing another literal translation[YLT]“13and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
14and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death; “
What seems obvious is that THE DEATH as used here ,is a place akin to Hades, the pit and even the sea, and not the loss of bodily life.
I am changing the train of thought and I apologize, but there is something that must be said about the will of our Father. He's definitlely got one, so what is it? Can we know it?
Isa 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways ,”
declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
NIVDoes this mean that we cannot know it? Absolutely not! It means that we are not like Him and we must conform to Him- we must be made in His image- wait- I think that I have heard that somewhere… Oh yeah!
Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image ,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
NIVTHis sounds like something that He wanted to do…his will…but it is already done, right?
Heb 5:8-10
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect , he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
NIVWhoa- Jesus was “made perfect?” He “learned” obedience- from suffering?! Wasn't He already perfect? Wasn't He in the image of God already?
But He is the pattern Son- so we have to be made perfect too? Do we need to learn obedience from suffering?
Phil 3:12-14
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect , but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
NIVNow if some don't know, this is the Apostle Paul speaking- he said that he was not made perfect- yet… But didn't God create us in His image and likeness? Isn't He perfect? Oh wait- His grace makes us perfect..so we can sin and He'll cover up the difference, right? But Paul was a minister- started the first churches and suffered greatly and He said that he wasn't perfect! So we're back at square one… wait- what did Paul say?
“but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.”
So Jesus was his example in this…how did Jesus do it again?
Heb 5:7-10
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect , he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
NIVHeb 2:10-12
10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering . 11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
NIVOk- so Jesus was made perfect through suffering- and according to Paul, we have to follow the example of Jesus- also according to John.
1 John 2:6
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
NIVNow salvation is brought into play. For Messiah is the author of salvation- He was made perfect- sound like He was the image of God- wait- have I heard that before?
Now it was said before that it was God's will for all men to be saved… does that mean that he will make us all into His image and that we will all be saved?
Ezek 22:30-23:1
30 “I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none . 31 So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
Wait a second- God did not want to destroy that city… and if there was someone who would stand in the gap and intercede he would not have done it…
-side note- this verse is extremely serious. It shows the power and the importance of intercession. Understand that our Father will not force His way upon us. We have choices to make. Does a husband want a wife that he has forced to love him? No- that is not love at all. Love can not be love unless it is a choice. Now this verse shows us that the wicked have a choice to follow God or serve the darkness… but God's people also have a choice to stand in the gap between Him and them- this is exhausting, painful and burdensome: grieving over the lost and their sin- BUT THAT IS HIS HEART! God does not make those wicked people love Him and He does not force anyone to intercede out of love for them. No, those people are given the desires of their own heart. They are destoyed; that is the choice that they made. When I heard this verse for the first time, I was terrified and sobered….. I bring this not to condemn anyone- just look at it and search your own heart. Are you willing? Are you willing to stand in the gap and carry His heart for His people? Are you willing to let His desires become your desires? To be made into His image?
I have rabbit- trailed…. or have I?
What is His will? Salvation… Souls..
Do you know what salvation is? It is life.. eternal life.John 17:2-3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
NIVEternal life is to KNOW Him- To have fellowship with Him- to have intimacy with Him- to be so close to Him- to be one with Him. Why do you think that the church is called the Bride of Christ? Why are there parables about virgins getting ready for a wedding?- and Song of Solomon! What is up with that?! Ever wonder why there is so much talk of marriage and love and intimacy in the Bible? That is the kind of relationship that He wants from us! (And the world has butchered marriage and love- I am not talking about that example)
He created marriage- He created intimacy. He did this so that we could relate to how He feels about us. He is crazy about us- He always wants to be with us, but many times we are not in the mood. Think about it… You are a bride about to get married… you tell your husband to be- “I love you so much… but I am only gonna give you about 3 minutes of my time every day.. is that ok?” We would never do this… but we do it to Him. (I promise, I am still on subject) Intimacy with Him is prayer. It is just you and Him- you are sharing your heart with Him and He is sharing His heart with you. You are vunerable.. open..hiding nothing. As you pour yourself out to Him, He puts life into you. You start to love what He loves and hate what He hates. You start loving light and turning from darkness. His heart for souls and His burden and His pain out of love for them becomes a part of you and you start to intercede. Then what happens? You bear fruit….children come forth. As you die to yourself and your old desires, becoming one with Him, the souls of men are saved. You are being made into His image and He is making man in His image through you. Brothers and sisters, that is a mediator. An intercessor… I ask again: are you willing?
This all ties together, I promise.
What is His will? What is on His heart? It is the purpose of why He created us. He created man to be one with Him. Man sinned. The wages of sin is death. Through his disobedience man was eternally separated from God. Understand what Adam had before the fall! He walked with God face to face- He was in a relationship! That was what he was created for! That was the Father's will for mankind- to be one with Him. Adam severed this relationship and now sin separated mankind from intimacy with their Creator. Because of this sin, Adam was condemned to death; his sin and his nakedness and shame were exposed. However, in His mercy, the Father made a covering for Adam and Eve-through death
– animal skin. The consequence of sin is death- that is why there was the sacrificial system. It was bloody and it was brutal. Do you know that on the Day of Atonement the blood was sprinkled all over the holy of holies? Is there ever mentioned in scripture the clean-up of this? No- again it was bloody, brutal and disgusting- but it showed the people the consequence of sin. Sin kills. Now, in the passover, they would bring a lamb into their house on the 10th day of the month only to slay it and eat it on the 14th day. For four days that lamb was to stay in the house- what do you suppose happened? It was a cute, cuddly, fluffy lamb! No doubt it did not take long for those in the household to start having a pet-like relationship with it- only to slay it four days later. It was only through that lamb's blood over their household that they were spared judgement and in turn, they were set free from their bondage. They were to walk with their Father and serve and obey Him, but what happened when they sinned? An animal, blood sacrifice was made, however…Heb 10:1-7
10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming — not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, 'Here I am — it is written about me in the scroll —
I have come to do your will, O God.'”
NIV
[/B]Enter, the second Adam- the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world.
What was that last thing that He said?
“I have come to do your will, O God.'”
Ok- we know that it was God's will for Jesus to save mankind- we get that…. But how does He live?
John 5:19
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
NIVJohn 5:36
For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.
NIVJohn 6:37-40
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
NIVJohn 6:57-58
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father , so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
NIVJohn 6:65
“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”
NIVJohn 8:16-18
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father , who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father , who sent me.
NIVJohn 8:28-30
I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”
NIVJohn 10:14-15
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father — and I lay down my life for the sheep.
NIVJohn 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”
NIVJohn 10:38-39
38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father .”
NIVJohn 12:48-13:1
49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”NIV
John 14:28-29
I am going to the Father , for the Father is greater than I .
NIVJohn 14:31
31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
NIVRom 6:10
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God .
NIVOn this earth, the Second Adam, (the one who did it right) only did the Father's will. He is always under complete and total submission. Brothers and Sisters, He is the firstborn over all creation. What does this mean? THis means that we come after Him. We follow the Way, the Truth and the Life. How do we do that? First, we accept His sacrifice. We are saved by grace [favor: In Greek this is Charisse: this is the same word that is used to describe the spiritual gifts] through faith [this is trust and confidence] Well, lets look at the source:
John 5:19
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
NIVJohn 5:36
For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me.
NIVJohn 6:37-40
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
NIVJohn 6:57-58
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father , so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
NIVJohn 6:65
“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”
NIVJohn 8:16-18
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father , who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father , who sent me.
NIVJohn 8:28-30
I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”
NIVJohn 10:14-15
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father — and I lay down my life for the sheep.
NIVJohn 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.”
NIVJohn 10:38-39
38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father .”
NIVJohn 12:48-13:1
49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”NIV
John 14:28-29
I am going to the Father , for the Father is greater than I .
NIVJohn 14:31
31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
NIVRom 6:10
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God .
NIVEph 2:8-10
8 For it is by grace you hav
e been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works , which God prepared in advance for us to do.
NIVDo not misunderstand my previous words. I have not been saying that we save ourselves by being submitted to God and walking like Jesus. No- It was by the favor of God- the gift of God that we are saved through faith- not by our works. But guess what else the verse says?
10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works , which God prepared in advance for us to do.
NIV [The will of our Father! It for us to do good works that He prepared!!!!]But again…. what are those good works? How do I know? His ways are not my ways and His thoughts are not my thoughts. Oh that's right, I'm a christian so He'll just make me do what He wants right? But then there is that Ezekiel verse…
How can I find His will?!!!!!!!
Jer 29:11-14
11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
NIVDid I ever think to ask?
Hi Shania,
You say
“On this earth, the Second Adam, (the one who did it right) only did the Father's will. He is always under complete and total submission. Brothers and Sisters, He is the firstborn over all creation. What does this mean? THis means that we come after Him. We follow the Way, the Truth and the Life. How do we do that? First, we accept His sacrifice. We are saved by grace [favor: In Greek this is Charisse: this is the same word that is used to describe the spiritual gifts] through faith [this is trust and confidence] “So we follow him by being obedient and being reborn of water and the Spirit?
My last post needs to be edited. Accedently double pasted a bunch of scripture. After “let's look at the source” needs to be deleted from Jn 5:19-Rom 6:10
Hey Nick-
wow you are fast!
John 3:3-8
3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
NIVThat was not my train of thought, but that is scriptural. What are you getting at?
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